wow, facebook blowup

Are we the only ones that can see this?

Your observations are spot on, and invisible to the general pool playing public.

This has always been true, when you speed a game up too much it loses it's appeal. Pool has been sped up considerably and lost it's appeal (faster cloth, jump/break cues, one foul rules, magic rack, rack your own, etc).......hmmm, could there be a connection?

Are there others that can see this connection, or has it been cleverly disguised?








CJ WILEY STATED:

One of the hottest topics of debate in pro tennis for the last several years has been whether to and how to slow the game down, especially the men's game on fast courts such as grass. As the average size of pro players and the power of their racquets has increased, so have serve speeds, and the result has been many more short points dominated by the server. For many fans, this makes tennis less fun to watch. Proposals for slowing the game have included a one-serve rule and even a reversion to wooden racquets, but the ITF has opted for the less drastic measure of trying a slower ball.

Same thing with pool. Fast cloth, limited deflection shafts, quick draw cue ball. The game has become easier since you don't have to power up to get around the table.
 
Ummm, yeah, uh huh, right! :rolleyes: :barf:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

You sound like a "lover" and an "enjoyer" - such a sweet, kind, gentle man. ;)

So are you a "lover," or a "loser"? Let's put you up against Mr. Putman for example:

What's your chances to enjoy beating Shawn Putman over 4 hours? 0%

So you love to talk disrespectfully about him and insinuate that he is whining and a loser? This takes a lot of courage sitting behind a computer screen doesn't it? I bet you're just "pleased as punch" to be able to ridicule a professional player on a computer.

Shawn would not enjoy beating you every set - using any balls - on any table - playing any pool game. After this beating you may have different thoughts about being a "loser". You see 50% of the people that compete are soon to be "losers" and 99% of people that compete in tournaments are soon to be "losers".....it's no great sin is it?

Shawn would help you back to your feet and encourage you to "not give up". Shawn would nurse you back to health and explain how he enjoys helping other people, especially ones that need love and kindness the most. 'The Game is the Teacher'



ShawnPutnam.jpg
 
Shane......after all, he's the only professional pool player in the country

Anytime they say "professional pool player" I think of Shane......after all, he's the only professional pool player in the country, it's a hobby for the rest of us. :) .....and it's hilarious to think of Shane and Shawn actually being the same person, they are almost identical. :groucho:


....Shawn may be the same as Shane....



Shawn is NOT, the same as Shane.
 
Most tennis matches are races to 6 (win by two or there's a tie breaker), two out of three sets. The Grand Slam events are 3 out of 5 sets race to 6 (win by two).

This is IMO one of the critical changes that needs to be made in pool. Alternate break, best of 3 sets, win each set by 2 (aka you must "break" the other persons break at least once to beat them so that a coin toss or lag does not win the set). Plus, the win by two thing creates phenomenal tension and excitement due to the pressure it creates where both players do everything in their power not to have their serve broken in tennis. It would do the same thing in pool, it would add MUCH NEEDED excitement to what many perceive as a otherwise fairly boring game.

The tables need to be consistent in pool IMO, I do not even think the varied surfaces in tennis help that sport, it is fairy popular "despite" it IMO although one could argue some of the surfaces are not even that popular and thus why some "majors" are more heralded and followed then others. The tables in pool need to be altered at the pro level so that they are truly a challenge, even after a great break. There should NEVER be a moment in pool where a player breaks and the announcers go "well it looks like he is out on this rack" prior to the guy shooting the first bloody ball after the break, that is a obvious sign there is something "REALLY" friggin wrong with the sport. The tables for professional pool should migrate (quickly and completely) to 10 foot tables with pockets exactly like the original TAR Fatboy rails. Snooker tables are brutal, the people know it, and that is why when they watch Ronnie O'Sulivan run a 147 they know they just saw something unreal. Pool needs that, they need the game to be perceived as truly hard by the general public and that requires tough tables, and making clear just what those tables are like to the viewing public by having a few out there and initially letting the viewers know the specs of the tables. In general the general public are not so slow that they will not see a fairly well hit ball bobble and get rejected, they will know once they see that a few times that this is not your typical bar box. Some might think (wow that is too tough) BUT there is a reason for making the table tough, and it is the next point.

The professional game NEEDS to be 8-ball. It is the ONLY game the general public know, it is the only game the general public play, bar tables spit out 15 balls when you plug in your money, and the common people (non pool players, simply the general public who happen to occasionally play a game of pool) play 8-ball. This is FAR AND AWAY the most popular game played at the league level as well, the VAST majority of actual competitive pool players play 8-ball. Leagues have tried 9-ball, there are rotation pool tournaments in Vegas at the nationals, and the most popular and most played game BY FAR is 8-ball. It is in the game that people actually have at least "some" interest in where you can make inroads into potentially getting some viewership, and then some sponsorship. There is no way in gods green earth you are going to make pool popular with the pros playing games the general public don't give two shits about!

Take those three things.

1) Make the game 8-ball.

2) Make the tables tough enough to REALLY challenge the pros in the game in 8-ball now and 5-10 years from now.

3) Change the races to a format where players alternate break and where you cannot win or lose without having your "break" broken. Best of 3 races to 6 win by two would work, or a single race to 11 win by two would work as well.

IF pool had done that 30 years ago this sport would be VASTLY better off then it is today. The push to 9-ball was a TERRIBLE move by those in control of the sport and the ongoing battering of their heads against a wall trying to make it stick with the general public was a tremendous waste of time, money, and opportunity this sport will NEVER get back.
 
Problem Solved
Take every ball ever made ( Except Cyclops )and make bombs out of them.
Bomb Putnams Geo Tracker, he started the whole mess.

Now everyone has to play with Cyclops balls, if you don't like the balls you stop at the Tourney Directors table and get a full blown colonostophy with the 6 ball.
If you are a good boy you get to use 3 balls at once.
Now you will have good reason to fart out of your mouth.

I can miss on any table with any balls, what's the problem?
 
This is IMO one of the critical changes that needs to be made in pool. Alternate break, best of 3 sets, win each set by 2 (aka you must "break" the other persons break at least once to beat them so that a coin toss or lag does not win the set). Plus, the win by two thing creates phenomenal tension and excitement due to the pressure it creates where both players do everything in their power not to have their serve broken in tennis. It would do the same thing in pool, it would add MUCH NEEDED excitement to what many perceive as a otherwise fairly boring game.

The tables need to be consistent in pool IMO, I do not even think the varied surfaces in tennis help that sport, it is fairy popular "despite" it IMO although one could argue some of the surfaces are not even that popular and thus why some "majors" are more heralded and followed then others. The tables in pool need to be altered at the pro level so that they are truly a challenge, even after a great break. There should NEVER be a moment in pool where a player breaks and the announcers go "well it looks like he is out on this rack" prior to the guy shooting the first bloody ball after the break, that is a obvious sign there is something "REALLY" friggin wrong with the sport. The tables for professional pool should migrate (quickly and completely) to 10 foot tables with pockets exactly like the original TAR Fatboy rails. Snooker tables are brutal, the people know it, and that is why when they watch Ronnie O'Sulivan run a 147 they know they just saw something unreal. Pool needs that, they need the game to be perceived as truly hard by the general public and that requires tough tables, and making clear just what those tables are like to the viewing public by having a few out there and initially letting the viewers know the specs of the tables. In general the general public are not so slow that they will not see a fairly well hit ball bobble and get rejected, they will know once they see that a few times that this is not your typical bar box. Some might think (wow that is too tough) BUT there is a reason for making the table tough, and it is the next point.

The professional game NEEDS to be 8-ball. It is the ONLY game the general public know, it is the only game the general public play, bar tables spit out 15 balls when you plug in your money, and the common people (non pool players, simply the general public who happen to occasionally play a game of pool) play 8-ball. This is FAR AND AWAY the most popular game played at the league level as well, the VAST majority of actual competitive pool players play 8-ball. Leagues have tried 9-ball, there are rotation pool tournaments in Vegas at the nationals, and the most popular and most played game BY FAR is 8-ball. It is in the game that people actually have at least "some" interest in where you can make inroads into potentially getting some viewership, and then some sponsorship. There is no way in gods green earth you are going to make pool popular with the pros playing games the general public don't give two shits about!

Take those three things.

1) Make the game 8-ball.

2) Make the tables tough enough to REALLY challenge the pros in the game in 8-ball now and 5-10 years from now.

3) Change the races to a format where players alternate break and where you cannot win or lose without having your "break" broken. Best of 3 races to 6 win by two would work, or a single race to 11 win by two would work as well.

IF pool had done that 30 years ago this sport would be VASTLY better off then it is today. The push to 9-ball was a TERRIBLE move by those in control of the sport and the ongoing battering of their heads against a wall trying to make it stick with the general public was a tremendous waste of time, money, and opportunity this sport will NEVER get back.

Best post in the thread. I mean, 9 ball became so ingrained in certain folks, they said Earl was not very good at 8 ball, well, until he snapped off the 8ball Bar Box championship.

They need to play the game that 90% of the leagues and public play, otherwise, why watch a game they are not familiar with. I watch baseball, but I don't watch fastpitch softball... not the same game by a long shot.
 
"One Foul" 9 Ball and "Two Foul" 9 Ball are like comparing a bicycle to a Harley.

The game definitely needs to be more challenging at the pro level. The tables need slower cloth, and the breaking/racking needs to be less than 70% of the total game.

You make some good points about the games too, however, it's not the 9 Ball that was the problem, it was the change to "one foul" 9 Ball......there's a huge difference between the two games.

"One Foul" 9 Ball and "Two Foul" 9 Ball are like comparing a bicycle to a Harley.

Eight ball is a great game, I agree. The problem is in the commentating, it's too complicated to describe to a non pool playing audience. Some of the subtle moves in eight ball are advanced and may not come up until the end of the rack (if you move a ball to clear a pocket for another ball).

Many players do like 8 Ball better than 9 Ball. In Green City Missouri we only played 8 Ball and full rack Rotation.....we didn't even play 9 Ball until around 15 years old.




This is IMO one of the critical changes that needs to be made in pool. Alternate break, best of 3 sets, win each set by 2 (aka you must "break" the other persons break at least once to beat them so that a coin toss or lag does not win the set). Plus, the win by two thing creates phenomenal tension and excitement due to the pressure it creates where both players do everything in their power not to have their serve broken in tennis. It would do the same thing in pool, it would add MUCH NEEDED excitement to what many perceive as a otherwise fairly boring game.

The tables need to be consistent in pool IMO, I do not even think the varied surfaces in tennis help that sport, it is fairy popular "despite" it IMO although one could argue some of the surfaces are not even that popular and thus why some "majors" are more heralded and followed then others. The tables in pool need to be altered at the pro level so that they are truly a challenge, even after a great break. There should NEVER be a moment in pool where a player breaks and the announcers go "well it looks like he is out on this rack" prior to the guy shooting the first bloody ball after the break, that is a obvious sign there is something "REALLY" friggin wrong with the sport. The tables for professional pool should migrate (quickly and completely) to 10 foot tables with pockets exactly like the original TAR Fatboy rails. Snooker tables are brutal, the people know it, and that is why when they watch Ronnie O'Sulivan run a 147 they know they just saw something unreal. Pool needs that, they need the game to be perceived as truly hard by the general public and that requires tough tables, and making clear just what those tables are like to the viewing public by having a few out there and initially letting the viewers know the specs of the tables. In general the general public are not so slow that they will not see a fairly well hit ball bobble and get rejected, they will know once they see that a few times that this is not your typical bar box. Some might think (wow that is too tough) BUT there is a reason for making the table tough, and it is the next point.

The professional game NEEDS to be 8-ball. It is the ONLY game the general public know, it is the only game the general public play, bar tables spit out 15 balls when you plug in your money, and the common people (non pool players, simply the general public who happen to occasionally play a game of pool) play 8-ball. This is FAR AND AWAY the most popular game played at the league level as well, the VAST majority of actual competitive pool players play 8-ball. Leagues have tried 9-ball, there are rotation pool tournaments in Vegas at the nationals, and the most popular and most played game BY FAR is 8-ball. It is in the game that people actually have at least "some" interest in where you can make inroads into potentially getting some viewership, and then some sponsorship. There is no way in gods green earth you are going to make pool popular with the pros playing games the general public don't give two shits about!

Take those three things.

1) Make the game 8-ball.

2) Make the tables tough enough to REALLY challenge the pros in the game in 8-ball now and 5-10 years from now.

3) Change the races to a format where players alternate break and where you cannot win or lose without having your "break" broken. Best of 3 races to 6 win by two would work, or a single race to 11 win by two would work as well.

IF pool had done that 30 years ago this sport would be VASTLY better off then it is today. The push to 9-ball was a TERRIBLE move by those in control of the sport and the ongoing battering of their heads against a wall trying to make it stick with the general public was a tremendous waste of time, money, and opportunity this sport will NEVER get back.
 
Anytime they say "professional pool player" I think of Shane......after all, he's the only professional pool player in the country, it's a hobby for the rest of us. :) .....and it's hilarious to think of Shane and Shawn actually being the same person, they are almost identical. :groucho:

as a "professional" pool player (and i use that term loosely in this business context), Shawn was a big fool (HUGE!) to post against a sponsor, as well were his comrades. and i posted "why".

personally, i dislike him for another reason that wasn't posted. and i won't have anything to do with promoting an event involving him. same for Charlie Williams.

other than that & 5"height & 80lbs - Shawn & Shane are the same.... :cool:
 
[
as a "professional" pool player (and i use that term loosely in this business context), Shawn was a big fool (HUGE!) to post against a sponsor, as well were his comrades. and i posted "why".

personally, i dislike him for another reason that wasn't posted. and i won't have anything to do with promoting an event involving him. same for Charlie Williams.

other than that & 5"height & 80lbs - Shawn & Shane are the same.... :cool:

He must have thought better of it, and has since removed his post about Cyclop balls from Facebook. lol
 
Shawn could make a positive difference at the entire tournament by showing up

Cyclop Balls reportedly (FOX NEWS Report) just responded on their Facebook page:

"If Shawn Putman is at the DCC our balls won't be there in 2015"

Maybe Shawn could make a positive difference at the entire tournament by showing up this year. ;)



He must have thought better of it, and has since removed his post about Cyclop balls from Facebook. lol
 
Cyclop Balls reportedly (FOX NEWS Report) just responded on their Facebook page:

"If Shawn Putman is at the DCC our balls won't be there in 2015"

Maybe Shawn could make a positive difference at the entire tournament by showing up this year. ;)

:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
 
The game definitely needs to be more challenging at the pro level. The tables need slower cloth, and the breaking/racking needs to be less than 70% of the total game.

You make some good points about the games too, however, it's not the 9 Ball that was the problem, it was the change to "one foul" 9 Ball......there's a huge difference between the two games.

"One Foul" 9 Ball and "Two Foul" 9 Ball are like comparing a bicycle to a Harley.

Eight ball is a great game, I agree. The problem is in the commentating, it's too complicated to describe to a non pool playing audience. Some of the subtle moves in eight ball are advanced and may not come up until the end of the rack (if you move a ball to clear a pocket for another ball).

Many players do like 8 Ball better than 9 Ball. In Green City Missouri we only played 8 Ball and full rack Rotation.....we didn't even play 9 Ball until around 15 years old.

I agree with the general public not understanding the subtle moves in a 8-ball game the a pro level player makes, but if you have knowledgable announcers, the general public can learn and hopefully inspire to join a league and become a fan and the existing league player will get better.
 
it's not the 9 Ball that was the problem, it was the change to "one foul" 9 Ball......there's a huge difference between the two games.

THIS is the problem. What type of popularity did two shot 9-ball have compared to 1-shot 9-ball when it comes to the general public and the potential fanbase for the sport? They are both useless as far as gaining fans for the sport, the general public don't give a crap about two shot pushout as opposed to texas express and they in fact don't have a clue what either even is.

The fact that you STILL feel the need to cling to 9-ball is simply a prime example why this sport went nowhere and continues to do so. Your entire lifetime is going to be spent in a world where pool is completely irrelevant and it is the stubborn clinging to a game that CLEARLY does not work and trying to force feed it into the mainstream that led to that.

People like you might have actually made a difference if they had of been able to admit that the game of 9-ball is NOT going to lead pool to anything but a slow death. But you simply refused to admit it and here we are today, with a game with almost no fans, no money, and almost no professional scene at all. Thanks CJ...
 
who wants to gamble at a game that has very little strategy

What type of popularity did 2 Shot 9 Ball have? I've played thousands of people this game across the United States. No one would gamble on "one foul," it wasn't even considered against the "Two Foul Rules" - who wants to gamble at a game that has very little strategy, no bluffing, no head to head competition?

It was the most popular pool game by far in the United States when there was a choice. Leagues and tournament began playing "One Foul" and it was forced into obscurity.

Some of us know the difference and it's huge.

One foul is like watching football with no defense, or basketball with no defense. It completely changed the pool game into the diluted version you see today.



THIS is the problem. What type of popularity did two shot 9-ball have compared to 1-shot 9-ball when it comes to the general public and the potential fanbase for the sport? They are both useless as far as gaining fans for the sport, the general public don't give a crap about two shot pushout as opposed to texas express and they in fact don't have a clue what either even is.

The fact that you STILL feel the need to cling to 9-ball is simply a prime example why this sport went nowhere and continues to do so. Your entire lifetime is going to be spent in a world where pool is completely irrelevant and it is the stubborn clinging to a game that CLEARLY does not work and trying to force feed it into the mainstream that led to that.

People like you might have actually made a difference if they had of been able to admit that the game of 9-ball is NOT going to lead pool to anything but a slow death. But you simply refused to admit it and here we are today, with a game with almost no fans, no money, and almost no professional scene at all. Thanks CJ...
 
What type of popularity did 2 Shot 9 Ball have? I've played thousands of people this game across the United States. No one would gamble on "one foul," it wasn't even considered against the "Two Foul Rules" - who wants to gamble at a game that has very little strategy, no bluffing, no head to head competition?

No, I don't care AT ALL what you played, or Earl played, or what Allen Hopkins liked to play. I care what the "general public" thought of 2-shot 9-ball. And do you know what THEY thought of the game? Nothing, they did not even know it existed. It was the WRONG game to try to push onto the public, as was 1-shot 9-ball. Both were irrelevant to the general public, it was not what THEY wanted and the problem professional pool had was that people like you could not figure out that the proper path was playing what THEY wanted to see, not what YOU wanted to play.

The game that you prefer to play while gambling is completely irrelevant to what game should be played at the professional level.
 
I played in over 120 tournaments this year, so that's where the majority of my time was spent. I did lose to Johnny Archer (7/6) Rob Saez, and Joey Grey, but of course they aren't top players now are they?

I said you insinuated he was a loser, and you did. Asking to get specific on an insinuation is a contradiction in terms.

Let me know when you play at DCC or the US Open. Until then, I guess we'll just have to listen to stories about the good Ole days.
 
"we can only recognize what we're familiar with"

The general public liked pool back in the 2 Shot Shootout Days, so I assume they liked the rules too. I can do a demonstration to any room full of pool players and they'd all see the differences very quickly. It's much easier on a pool table than from a computer.

"we can only recognize what we're familiar with" - if someone hasn't experienced the best of 2 Shot Shoot Out they really can't have an opinion that's fair and balanced.




No, I don't care AT ALL what you played, or Earl played, or what Allen Hopkins liked to play. I care what the "general public" thought of 2-shot 9-ball. And do you know what THEY thought of the game? Nothing, they did not even know it existed. It was the WRONG game to try to push onto the public, as was 1-shot 9-ball. Both were irrelevant to the general public, it was not what THEY wanted and the problem professional pool had was that people like you could not figure out that the proper path was playing what THEY wanted to see, not what YOU wanted to play.

The game that you prefer to play while gambling is completely irrelevant to what game should be played at the professional level.
 
remember how much fun we had at the 2011 US OPEN

Thanks, I'll be sure to call you and tell you personally. I still remember how much fun we had at the 2011 US OPEN. ;)
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Let me know when you play at DCC or the US Open. Until then, I guess we'll just have to listen to stories about the good Ole days.
 
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