Rule question

To resurrect an old thread...

This thread seemed to discuss the situation only considering APA rules.

I can see in the APA rules where taking a shot where the player mistook an object ball for the cue ball would be a ball-in-hand foul. Is this also the case with WPA rules (ball in hand)? It seems like 6.6 would apply here. http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=121&pagetype=rules#6.6

I found where it states that it is a foul, but would the foul result in ball in hand for the other player, or replacing the moved balls and leaving the cue ball where it was sitting?
 
If I am shooting at a deer, and I hit you instead, I would definitely call that an accident.

APA (and many others) is "cue ball falls only", so, unless some other ball ended up contacting the cue ball, then it isn't a foul.
 
James2003 said:
Wait what the heck

You mean I was honest and called a foul in a tournament last Sunday because my hand hit the 7 ball when I cam up off the table.

Didn't matter I won the match anyway. But still.
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It's only a foul if you are playing all ball fouls, most tournaments now are cueball fouls only.

I actually read the rule in the APA official rulings list where it's not illegal to hit the wrong ball instead of the cueball at least in one situation. The question was "if someone mistakenly shoots the 8 ball into the pocket directly, not using the cueball, is it a foul or a loss or what?" The answer was "it's not a foul, the 8 ball is placed where it was, and the person that shot it re-shoots the shot with the cueball". That right there is the type of shit that keeps me awake at night with nightmares about having to play in an APA league. They said the player was just so existed to win, it's OK if they forgot to shoot with the cueball. Eh, who needs basic rules like "hit the cueball first with your cue". At least they are very strict about you losing if you don't mark an 8 ball sitting 2 millimiters from the pocket opening you are aiming at, that way the blind and brain dead people won't be confused about your intended pocket.
 
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That's pretty amazing that it's not considered a foul. I'm not up on APA rules but I assume that if the CB contacts a wrong ball first (opponent's ball in 8 Ball or out of rotation in 9 Ball) it's a foul. Using an object ball as a cue ball isn't worse in every possible way than that?

Look, I get that leagues (not just APA) are supposed to be at least partially social and fun. I appreciate that is why leagues typically don't play all ball fouls - to minimize some of the conflicts and arguments. But even in APA, where there may be a higher percentage of beginners, how often can this situation actually occur that it shouldn't be ruled a foul? Plus, it isn't like there would be any disagreement about whether it happened or not like say over a disturbed ball foul. Even a beginner would know and understand that a brain fart like that should put you in your chair - and probably facing the corner with a dunce cap on your head.
 
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Common sense would say a Foul, but I'm not up on rules other than VNEA.

Stroking the object ball with your cue as opposed to moving it accidentally with your cue or hand is different.

So what happens next. Is the moved or stroked object ball put back in place.

What happens if the stroked object ball breaks any others out.

Seems like one could run into a couple of difficult situations with this rule.
 
FWIW, the situation is specifically covered in CSI/BCAPL rules, and has been for many years. CSI Appled Ruling 1-19 Situation 1 applies:

1. Situation: Player A mistakes an object ball for the cue ball and shoots with the object ball unintentionally acting as the cue ball.

Ruling: Foul. Player B accepts the object balls in position.

:smile:
Buddy
 
Jeff Rosen said:
OK, if someone not thinking or color blind hits another light colored ball instead of the cue ball, is it ball in hand? The few times I've seen it (or done it myself, LOL) it was a BIH foul. But yesterday at an APA match someone accidently hit the 9 Ball thinking it was the cue and it wasn't ruled a foul, the reasoning being one has to hit the cue ball for it to be a foul. Is it different if you're playing "all balls foul"?
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To me, there are two different situations here....

A......just not thinking...
Even with cue ball fouls only, if you move two or more object balls, it's a foul.
.....just not thinking is no excuse.
.....I've never played APA, however.

B....color blind....
...here's how snooker handles this legitimate problem..
The referree or opponent is obliged to tell him when he's shooting the wrong ball....
...they tend to mistake the brown ball for a red.

So if I was playing a person who is color blind, I'll give him the shot over....at a certain
angle, pretty well all you see is white and yellow.....or I'll warn him, if time allows.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Common sense would say a Foul, but I'm not up on rules other than VNEA.

Stroking the object ball with your cue as opposed to moving it accidentally with your cue or hand is different.

So what happens next. Is the moved or stroked object ball put back in place.

What happens if the stroked object ball breaks any others out.

Seems like one could run into a couple of difficult situations with this rule.
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Totally agree. If it was bad enough, it could be impossible to reproduce the layout. I would not want to replace any balls, and the shooter should definitely lose his turn.


tatcat2000 said:
FWIW, the situation is specifically covered in CSI/BCAPL rules, and has been for many years. CSI Appled Ruling 1-19 Situation 1 applies:

1. Situation: Player A mistakes an object ball for the cue ball and shoots with the object ball unintentionally acting as the cue ball.

Ruling: Foul. Player B accepts the object balls in position.

:smile:
Buddy
Click to expand...

Yeah, but is it a ball-in-hand foul or a play-the-cue-ball-from-where-it-sits foul? Also, do you guys think that the WPA rules would be the same in this situation?
 
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