Questionable BCAPL Sanctioning Going on in Wisconsin?

cardiac kid said:
Steve,

I'll do better than that. When I'm in Vegas again in three weeks, I'll stop by the office and ask the question personally. As I currently fly out for eight days and get two matches in each trip, it sure would make it much less expensive for me to play a shortened sanctioning schedule! Hopefully this situation will have been cleared up by then,

Also agree you never use bad judgement :D ;) . You're one of the good guys on AZ.

Lyn
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Good deal Lyn -- PM me the answer you get. :D

I'll be in Vega$ mid March for NCAA but anything about pool will not be on the agenda unless I can get JCIN to come out for a day/night of debaclery and it shouldn't be too hard to convince him.
 
mikepage said:
Sounds to me like your in-house league should become BCAPL sanctioned. You collect $15 from each player at the beginning of the year and pass it on to the national office. You almost certainly don't have to change anything about your format or dues or anything else. Problem solved.

We have 50 in-house teams at Fargo Billiards in three divisions. Every team/every player is BCAPL sanctioned. It's part of first night dues. Been doing it like this for five years. Nobody complains and the number of teams has grown every year for five years.

I don't understand what is going on in Wisconsin, but I know there has been stuff going on the last couple years. If, as I suspect, it is a local organization cropping up that says hey don't sanction nationally--join with us instead--we'll keep more money locally-- then I say say that organization is picking the low-lying fruit when it comes to supporting pool.

That argument sounds attractive, but it's divisive. It is bad for pool. We, as people who care about pool, need to go in the other direction; we need to encourage more people, more in-house leagues, more local organizations to sanction nationally. Yes, I see that if we had a weak or scrupulous or mismanaged national organization, then things would be more complicated. But we don't

CSI/BCAPL is a well managed forward-thinking organization that has been at the wave crest of almost everything good that's happened in pool in the last decade. There is every reason to believe that if this organization had more resources, pool would be the winner.

So yes there is goofiness I don't understand going on in Wisconsin right now. I hope this all gets worked out. The LAST thing we need is to become more insular, to narrow our thinking to our region, our individual leagues, ourselves.
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We do pay but to qualify for the Vegas trip you have to compete in 8 weeks. You cant just pay your $15 and show up to play. It is a handicapping thing and it is there for a good reason.
 
itsfroze said:
This is a rules question, for a league that is open to the public and anyone can join, it's not personal.
Not everyone wants to be on a pod cast. Why not just answer the valid question right here where it
was asked ? There are others here that want to know the answer as well.

I don't know how you feel about this, but when I see the person asking a question a question being
confronted, rather the the question being answered, I wonder what the persons motive who's doing
the confronting is ? Not answering the question gives the appearance that something is not on the up
and up. I am not saying that is the case here, just that it can look that way.
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Come on now lol, he didn't just say "Hey, I heard you guys are allowing this or someone is." Reread the first post and tell me it's not pretty aggressive and calling BCAPL's business practices into question?

Edit: That being said I am curious on the answer now too but for different reasons. I haven't seen one person that plays in the BCAPL so far that thinks it's wrong, just want to do it themselves or know people that this would work for if possible. I wish more leagues would do the same thing. The more players at tournaments the better.
 
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itsfroze said:
I read the post and it's aggressive, but the question is still valid. There are other people in this thread that asked the same question in a non aggressive manner, their questions are equally as valid.
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I agree now that it was brought out it is valid. I still think the better approach would have been to call first and make sure all your information is correct and explain why you think it's wrong. If that would have happened first I don't think the op would be taking near as much heat. It just hurt the credibility when it was brought out in an aggressive manner then you look at the post history and every post has had something against the BCAPL. Just my .02

Offtopic- This is why I like your posts no matter what side of the fence I'm on, you keep things respectful and don't instantly drop to name calling and bashing. It's nice to have civil discussions on here once in awhile.
 
watchez said:
WSPA - I see that you changed the location of your tournament. That seems to be in violation of your by laws.

Section 1: General Tournament Sponsorship. The WSPA Corporation acting
through its Board of Directors shall organize and sponsor the State Billiard
Tournament(s), which shall include without limitation the following responsibilities:
(a) Providing prizes, money, awards, or premiums promised and fulfilling any
financial obligations to governing bodies;
(b) Holding Tournament(s) at the designated locations on the promoted dates;
(c) Notifying the players to any material changes in the Tournament(s);
(d) Providing security and safety; and
(e) Providing general supervision of Tournament play
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I really do not understand what the WSPA has to do with BCAPL state tournament requirements. As far as changing the location of the state tournament our state tournament has been held at a variety of locations all in different cities over the years. Those of us who are WSPA members have known for quite some time exactly where and when the 2015 WSPA state tournament would be held. It is quite possible that you are privy to information in which I am not aware of. I can only report on what information is available to us as WSPA members.
mikepage had commented on the state of pool sanctioning in Wisconsin and it not being the best thing for the game. I personally do not know yet whether we are better off being BCAPL or WSPA sanctioned. What I do know is to me the $15.00 it costs to be BCAPL sanctioned is just not a big deal. Some people apparently think that is a lot of money for a yearly sanction fee yet they have no problem with a $40.00 bar tab for 1 night of pool or spending $27.00 for 1 cube of chalk, but i can see the logic in that knowing how much better you can pocket balls with $27.00 cubes of chalk.:confused:
Personally I would prefer to pay both sanction fees if necessary as with the BCAPL I have the option of going to Vegas for the BCAPL tournament or even neighboring states like Iowa, Minnesota, or Illinois to play in their state BCAPL tournaments if I am correct. All I do know for sure is that if I was to continue playing in the leagues that I had been in previous years I had no choice but to become WSPA sanctioned. I do not see how dividing the states pool players into "associated" (competing) sanctioning bodies is a step forward for Wisconsin.
 
watchez said:
Good deal Lyn -- PM me the answer you get. :D

I'll be in Vega$ mid March for NCAA but anything about pool will not be on the agenda unless I can get JCIN to come out for a day/night of debaclery and it shouldn't be too hard to convince him.
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I'm in. What could go wrong?
 
I wouldn't mind getting a group of friends together to play some games and qualify in a day. Sure would beat the hell out of herding cats and trying to run even a tiny division. Also, they're *****ing about $15? Damn, we pay $38 out here.

Still.. where's the rest of the email?
 
I don't know any of the details but my guess is the desire to get more cash from the players is the reason.
 
Email from CSI this evening. (gives a little insight to whats going on)

CSI Associate Members (formerly called Player Members) are now allowed to participate in the singles events of the 2015 BCAPL Wisconsin State Championships!

The 2015 BCAPL Wisconsin State Championships will be held Feb. 25 – Mar. 1 at the beautiful Potawatomi Hotel & Casino in Milwaukee, WI. We initially decided to restrict the event to members of Wisconsin BCAPL-sanctioned leagues. However, due to the unusual circumstances in Wisconsin and an overwhelming demand from players, we have decided to allow CSI Associate Members (formerly called Player Members) to participate in the singles events.

Why did we initially restrict the event to BCAPL league members?
We believe in the value of a strong national league organization with regular weekly play. This type of structure benefits room owners, vending companies, league operators, players, and the entire industry. However, many people live in rural areas without leagues or simply cannot commit to regular play. The CSI Associate Membership was created to allow these people an opportunity to be part of and contribute to the system. It was not created to circumvent regular league play.

The situation in Wisconsin is highly unusual. Misinformation was being spread leading people to believe that there would be no BCAPL Wisconsin State Championship in 2015 and even if players wanted to attend the BCAPL National Championships, there was no need for their league to sanction because those players could simply purchase a CSI Associate Membership. At the time, we believed that allowing CSI Associate Members would have been contrary to our goal of maintaining a strong BCAPL league structure in Wisconsin. After all, our mission is to unify and support leagues rather than simply hold tournaments.

Why are CSI Associate Members being allowed now?
There has been an overwhelming demand for two primary reasons:

1. Players had no voice.
Many players have written and called to say that they wanted to remain with the BCAPL but their League Operators made the decisions for them. We received statements such as, “Six people decided for thousands” and “I had no say in the matter” and “we’re being punished because of the actions of a few.” It is clear that many good people really didn’t have a voice and were forced to simply go along with what was being done.

2. Players who live in rural areas have no league to join.
We have spoken to many players, particularly in the more rural north, that have no league to join. These are the very people for whom the CSI Associate Membership was designed and we do not want to shut them out.

Many of you have stated that because of the reasons above, we should allow CSI Associate Members so more players have the ability to participate and thus, give them more reason to lobby their league to sanction next year. We acknowledge that these are very valid reasons. We also consulted several of our existing BCAPL League Operators and they agreed. Therefore, we will now allow CSI Associate Members to participate in the singles events only.

Please get registered before Feb. 9 to avoid any late fees.

Thank you and we look forward to seeing you in Milwaukee.

CSI Associate Membership: Click here to purchase

2015 BCAPL Wisconsin State Championship: Click here for info and registration

Flyer

Venue
Potawatomi Hotel & Casino
1721 West Canal St.
Milwaukee, WI 53233

Dates
Feb. 25 – Mar. 1, 2015

Added: $10,000

Divisions (8-Ball)
Men’s B Singles
Men’s A Singles
Men’s AA/Master Singles
Men’s B Teams
Men’s A Teams
Men’s AA/Master Teams
Women’s B Singles
Women’s A Singles
Women’s Master Singles
Women’s B Teams
Women’s A/Master Teams

Late Fee Deadline: Late fees begin Feb. 9, 2015

Eligibility
Players who have played at least four (4) matches in a single BCAPL sanctioned Wisconsin league division during the current league year (June 1, 2014 - February 24, 2015) will be eligible. Click here to see if you are a current BCAPL sanctioned member. If you are not, encourage your League Operator to sanction the league today or purchase a CSI Associate Membership (formerly called Player Member) to play in the singles events only.

Equipment
The equipment will be 7ft Diamond tables, Simonis cloth, and Cyclop balls.

Live Streaming
We will be live streaming and recording matches using the very best high definition cameras absolutely free! These matches will be available on the CSI YouTube channel for later viewing.

Please continue to monitor our website www.playcsipool.com or www.playbca.com and as always, please feel free to contact our office at (702) 719-7665 or (866) USA-POOL.
 
This is a great turn of events for WI Pool players. Now Ozzy answer the sanctioning questions that everyone wants to here the answers for, Can everyone else run one day leagues like WI can? Come on Ozzy answer the questions
 
This is good news for those that just want to play singles at State like myself. Now I can just pay a player member fee, instead of playing in leagues. I have a little one at home and can't get out much. Glad BCAPL went back to their previous stance on allowing player members. Tap tap.
 
There was a BCAPL regional 8 ball tournament in my area a year or so ago, if you were part of the USAPL league you can also play in it, and they also allowed some APA players in, but they had to play at a higher handicap since there was no match records for them.

I guess that would be similar to what is going on here, even though the APA players were no in the same league, they let them in and just made sure that they were not under-handicapped by having them play at the max rating if they wanted to play. Or maybe it was second to max rating, don't remember exactly.

I do remember that I played one of them, he had to spot me a game and I beat him pretty easily with something like a 5-2 score, but if you go into a place as an unknown and are not part of the league running the event, that is to be expected.

I had no issues with finding out APA players were let in the BCAPL event even though they never played in the BCAPL or the USAPL.

What I see here is "Did you guys hear that Fords like to explode when you go over 30 mph? Why would you buy a Ford??? Oh, well maybe I work for GM but that does not matter right?"
 
Now that the BCAPL opens up the event to player members, Wisconsin players can now pay $25 or play in a one day league that would cost $15. Great to have options.
 
labrat said:
Now that the BCAPL opens up the event to player members, Wisconsin players can now pay $25 or play in a one day league that would cost $15. Great to have options.
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That one day thing is multiple matches right? Which means they need to pay the league fees for each match. How much would that be to reach how many matches they need?
 
No I believe that pay the $15 and no league fees. There is no prize money. It's all geared at getting 4 weeks in to play the Wisconsin tournament.
 
labrat said:
This is a great turn of events for WI Pool players. Now Ozzy answer the sanctioning questions that everyone wants to here the answers for, Can everyone else run one day leagues like WI can? Come on Ozzy answer the questions
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i looked yesterday and ozzie was on here at 4:45. looked this evening and he was on here at 9:07.

guess he dont want to answer any questions ?
 
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