CTE PRO ONE Contrast with Quarters System

I said I can (not will or would). But I won't. Unless someone throws 100k my way to fund it.

Oh, and now the rules change at your leisure. LMAO No problem, I can fly to the moon if someone gives me a spacesuit and a rocket. All I need is for you to give me a few billion dollars.
 
When has being knowledgeable about the facts been a requirement for Colin or Patrick to post their derogatory opinions?
What have I said that is derogatory? That it's not objective? That's just a judgement call. That CTE players aren't among the world's elite potters? Do you disagree with that?
 
Oh, and now the rules change at your leisure. LMAO No problem, I can fly to the moon if someone gives me a spacesuit and a rocket. All I need is for you to give me a few billion dollars.
Yes, it was presented as a hypothetical, same as yours above. That's not rule changing, it's logic. But keep on with your strawman argument if it provides an excuse for not addressing my points regarding non-objective aspects of the system.

How about you tell us what bridge length you use when you pivot to CCB and whether or not your bridge remains static, and if not, could you describe the mechanism of bridge V shift and how it is determined?

Colin <=== Doesn't think the above is derogatory.
 
This is great... this is like the good ol' days... we got Stan, Colin, PJ and all the nay and yay'ers interjecting and even Chinese nationals getting pulled into the mix. There's everything but piñatas and electric bull riding in this thread. Same bs as a decade ago.
 
Yes, it was presented as a hypothetical, same as yours above. That's not rule changing, it's logic. But keep on with your strawman argument if it provides an excuse for not addressing my points regarding non-objective aspects of the system.

How about you tell us what bridge length you use when you pivot to CCB and whether or not your bridge remains static, and if not, could you describe the mechanism of bridge V shift and how it is determined?

Colin <=== Doesn't think the above is derogatory.

Colin, there exists a post here somewhere that explains how bridge length works with CTE. Since you don't understand CTE in the least, the math would be well beyond you. Or you'd simply do as you always do when you don't understand something (which seems to be quite often), you'd poopah and throw a bunch of meaningless words out to mask your lack of understanding. I don't owe you any explanation, you're simply not worth it. Look for it if you care to, I could care less.

I'm an Engineer by degree myself and I can tell you, based upon the stuff you and Patrick post here, neither one of you would have made it past the freshman year. And certainly no professional technical person I've ever known that's worth a pound of salt would attempt to have technically based conversations in the manner you and Patrick do. Patrick throws out some CAD sketch that a first year engineering student could do in 10 minutes and everyone seems amazed.

By the way, I have seen plenty of Engineers have discussions in the manner you and Patrick do. Those were the guys who had screwed something up or when a solution was way above their technical capabilities. Instead of listening and learning, they'd throw all kinds of smoke screens up in an attempt to mask their inadequacies. Those guys ultimately stayed at entry level positions or ended up as Janitors as their careers progressed. Grab a mop Son.
 
What have I said that is derogatory? That it's not objective? That's just a judgement call. That CTE players aren't among the world's elite potters? Do you disagree with that?

You recruiting the Chinese National Team again Colin? LMAO! Or is it the Outback Pottery Group? If you don't think it is objective, that's fine. Why keep arguing about it? You don't understand it in the least but yet you somehow feel qualified to speak about it in negative terms. I hope you don't conduct yourself in the same manner professionally. Perhaps that's why you need someone to give you the $100K.
 
Colin, there exists a post here somewhere that explains how bridge length works with CTE. Since you don't understand CTE in the least, the math would be well beyond you. Or you'd simply do as you always do when you don't understand something (which seems to be quite often), you'd poopah and throw a bunch of meaningless words out to mask your lack of understanding. I don't owe you any explanation, you're simply not worth it. Look for it if you care to, I could care less.

I'm an Engineer by degree myself and I can tell you, based upon the stuff you and Patrick post here, neither one of you would have made it past the freshman year. And certainly no professional technical person I've ever known that's worth a pound of salt would attempt to have technically based conversations in the manner you and Patrick do. Patrick throws out some CAD sketch that a first year engineering student could do in 10 minutes and everyone seems amazed.

By the way, I have seen plenty of Engineers have discussions in the manner you and Patrick do. Those were the guys who had screwed something up or when a solution was way above their technical capabilities. Instead of listening and learning, they'd throw all kinds of smoke screens up in an attempt to mask their inadequacies. Those guys ultimately stayed at entry level positions or ended up as Janitors as their careers progressed. Grab a mop Son.
I got kicked out of my mopping apprenticeship because I kept arguing with the instructor over the minutia of the techniques he espoused! So you didn't get it all right! :p
 
This is great... this is like the good ol' days... we got Stan, Colin, PJ and all the nay and yay'ers interjecting and even Chinese nationals getting pulled into the mix. There's everything but piñatas and electric bull riding in this thread. Same bs as a decade ago.

Except no JB and Lou....then it would be complete
 
Well,
I joined this fantastic forum here. And i m still fhankful for this option to communicate with so many great people to share knowledge and my passion as well. i can say very true that the forum brought me finally to the point to give lessons, and start also to teach and instruct players- and finally also ended in teaching "upcoming instructors"- best feeling i ever had.

This all happened, because great humans shared their knowledge with me here- because these people had the passion to spread out their earned knowledge. The saying "if one doors closes, another door will open for you" is so true-- it happened to me here 100%. Without a David Sapolis, a Randy Goettlicher, Fran Crimi, Scott Lee, Stan Shuffett, a Patrick JOhnson as well (yes you read right), a JOhn Barton as well, too (yes!) and for sure also Dave Segal and Dr. Dave i would have never ever made my way into the direction to instruct ppl (players and instructors).
I forgot for sure many many other names, which would have deserved to be named here also. "normal posters" as well as "certified" ppl.
They made me hungry for knowledge-- Some of these guys really infected me again. to learn new things.
On forums you have to live with each other- and you decide for yourself to stay there- and in this case you give it a shot- you also decide to live with "trolls", "paper professionals" as well as ppl who just want to hurt someone-nothing else. (

Human need "hands on" in many directions- very very are just not able to work something out on their own without instruction. So "some" enthusiastic human like/love to help these people out. It s that easy- and it s a good thing.

An accident forced me to stop playing again- right after i just started again after a 10 years pause- and i hurt me, bc i had the feeling that i played better than ever before..and this in my age.
And here all of the names i wrote - i felt, that i can give a lot to other humans, who love this game and want to learn it, to increase their skills etc.
So i just put every minute into "learning" new stuff, learning to communicate better, to be able to transfer my knowledge to more and more ppl- so they can "understand" better. Knowlege just comes from expirience. By learning- reading, understanding-...and : at the table!

At one point i started to spend my interests in things more and more: visualisation, aiming, perception. And then i was sitting with my cup of coffee in front of my computer watching videos from students etc-- and reading AZB threads- and paid the first time REAL attention to a CTE thread- It was so hard, to pick out the useful and interesting information, because the thread was filled with bashing inbetween.....man- terrible. (i would have killed for a "bullshit-filter" lmao...)

Me- the oldschooled guy- using his long ago learnt stuff like back of the ball, contact to contact, ghostball etcetera- starting to read about *visual intelligence*. And i was more than excited-- i read things, i never heard in my life (as a 25 years plus player....that shocked me). 90/90, CTE, Pro1, Shadows/lights, See.....it was a strange feeling to read things like that- i ve never heard about. Very strange.
I remember EXACTLY when i have had the first contact, which kept me watching at the computer on youtube: where i was like "what the **** is this..." --
It was already after a whle i was gettin intrested more and more in CTE and other stuff-- i was on youtube-- and found a video from Stan Shuffett........shooting balls with the "curtain". And T-H-I-S was definitley, what made me thinking!
That was something what amazed me (and it s hard to amaze me, if it s about pool-lol). I wanted to find *old stuff* from this guy "Hal Houle" and his 3-Line system. but somehow not able to find his older explanations. But thx god Stan started to write and post more and more about his CTE/ Journey and his ongoing study with his version- the Pro1 system.
Man- i was SO CONFUSED.

well- i got myself at the table, and started to play a bit with 3-4 practice shots.
and at one point i was surprised-- i remember a *back cut*- what many would call a tough shot.
before starting with my *beginner journey* of the system i played each shot 50 times- including a marked a ghostball-- to be SURE that if i miss, that i just would have made a stroke error (or fundamental error at all).
Noted just the numbers of made shots ( made every shot 50 times- so all in all 200 balls of the 4 practice shots).

i was inbetween 88-to 90 percent. Which was a good result (for me- i know that here on the board are mainly world beaters who shoot higher numbers than the most professionals "grin"..sorry, couldn t resist).

So with these results in the background i started to shoot the practice shots-- with CTE/Pro 1 -- the first hours had been terrible....man. It was so ****in hard-- to step totally different into a shot- that it was just logical, to end the first hours in a disaster- lmao!
The results had been a catastrophny- a reason to quit pool- LOL.
Then i talked to my friend Dave Segal on Skype--- and he was able to give me one of the very first eye-opener. (was about the pivot itself, big problem for me at that time).
next day again to the table- and i was then able to shoot these 200 balls with a percentage about 70 percent- and this gave me sth like: Aha! look- it works! just after 2 days! the next 3-4 days i just shot these practice shots.
and on the following friday night i made the first two shots with 95 and 97 percent......i felt like god. i was so excited.....i thought it was unbelievable!
so i really thought myself: yeah man- you got it. the holy gral- (lmao).

Saturday again to the table........and i shot like an idiot-- much more bad results. Looked like i forgt sth over night. I felt like shit, was angry, anger- was really pissed.
The reason was easy-- my "physical" moves just haven t been burned in enough. I still had to fight against my "old styled" movings (stepping into the shot on the striking line)-- this still had a big effect- of course! after such a long time, the subconcsious mind really tricked me :-) (what is usually what you want to...but not in this case-lol).

the next sessions i then really slowed down dramatically-- just trying so hard to shoot EVERY single shot VERY concsiously. And paying 100% attention on the most important part-- to get the correct visuals- to get correct down into the shot.
From then many things got so much easier. It s a thing about trusting and believing. But it needs a ton of work. As soon as you have negative thoughts, you start to correct on your own. A tough thing to work it out on your own without help!

I cannot explain some things: why some things JUST WORK. but i stopped to try to be able to explain it.
shooting 3 balls- just placed differently by using same aimpoints (all 15 degree perceptions for example)- and it just works, Logically i would say of course - this cannot work. But it did.

A reason i often hold myself back to try to explain some things is, that english is not my mother language. And some nuances in languages can change a lot !
I received so many personal messages from nice people, from naysayers- - things like "how can oyu say this-" or "you cannot prove this". Ofc also next to some warm nad nice comments. You re all welcome!

Ron Vitello said and used a nice sentence in his 90/90 DVD
"Use what ever helps your game". Is that so tough? What is wrong to use all of your knowledge? Would some people be ashamed to use things they don t really understand? even if "it just works" ? How stupid is that?
I now use cte/pro1 for a really large amount of shots- 90/90 as well. on some shots i still use my *old styled* system which i learnt for myself over decades. I like to learn things which make things easier for me.

Now the sentence comes, which is one of the most used i think (also from me :p )
First you need great fundamentals! A repeatable straight stroke, a perfect timing, perfect alignment- AND: speed control and knowledge!

One last example: Friend and student watched me few months ago practicing Pro1/ and real CTE. He was really curious (especially then, when i started to shoot "bliind shots" so i would have to concentrate completley on cueball last-and nothing else.
He wanted to know how it works- really interested. Told him that i m not 100% perfect with hit- so i would like to stay away to teach it- but finally i tried to.
Gave him a typical two way shot. Gave him also my centenials (stripes marked at quarters to make it easier). and as a cueball the elephant trainings ball.

told him what to do- and so he started......and as you expect- not with that much success- after a time he got a bit frustrated and the typical words like: Doesn t work blablabla!
I told him, that on most shots he would have made fundamental errors very sure-- and he got angry- hollering at me: how can you say that etc. -- "i have a good stroke" blabla (typical pool player, lol!).
Then i told him, that he has to keep attention for speed control also, bc it effects the shots so much-- and that he *with his old system* already adjusted it with his subconcsious mind-
and that this "work" now begins from new- and that he would have to use and find his constant speed, to be sure to get repeatable results............well: he looked at me like i would be crazy-

I then setup a shot- a simple crossbank. marked the spot for cb and ob. I shot the shot 8 out of 10 times as a stopshot crosscorner. and then told him to do it also. should be so easy- same position, marked position, over and over again. should be a 100% shot, hm? Just hit vertical axis- stopshot. bam.
He made 2 out of 10. totally pissed.
It told him: because you do not hit vertical axis consistantly! and using different speed all the time:
he: (pissed)- blabla, different rails, etc. typical poolplayer excuses.
me: ok- so next shot. cueball head spot- objectball center spot.
I shot it 9 out of 10 and told him to try it. he made about 5 out of 10.
then i told him furthermore: play it 3 times slow, then 3 times medium and then 3 times with a higher speed. and watch what object ball does. ( i marked the ghostball aiming point on the table!!!!!!!).
and h made exactly 1 shot on every position. This was an eye opener for him. After 15 years of playing and burned in "adjustments", adjustments for his bad stroke delivery and much more, he started to really think how speed, throw effect the shot.

and this is in my opinion one of the most underestimated points. most of these guys trying out new systems--- by NOT having a repeatable stroke delivery. you can have the best system in the world. but this shitty straight and repeatable stroke.....this is necessary! without it you cannot use any system on the planet. this you can just reach through a BIG AMOUNT OF OVERLEARNING AND REPETITION!!

My expirience is very sure, that almost every system really works great (even if there are gaps- like in every system). but the players are just not serious enough about their fundamentals-- but this is easy to fix! with help and lots of practice.

But what is not easy to fix or to learn: a BAD ATTITUDE- not being able to accept and learn!".


What i wanted to say is mainly: What is so hard to really try something out ? and if it doesn t work for you: Get with someone in contact who s n expert in this topic? Or if you re so stubborn, that you will never accept it: to just accept it also? It does not work for you- so give it a short laugh and say to yourself: Ok- not my thing- for me this or that works better?

I swear and bet: some of these well known naysayers here will miss so many shots...even with marked ghostball spots on teh table......-- and at the same time such ppl allowing themselve to rate something wrong or call another person "wrong" ?? IN this case they would also HAVE TO call a ghostball or contact to contact system wrong (geometrically 100% correct *grin*)......just because they miss the shot because of their extremly bad fundamentals?

May everyone of you have a smooth stroke- maybe some guys start to think about that they really can insult someone with their way of communication. that they hurt people just because of a less good understanding, or whatever.


See, Think, Do

lg from overseas
Ingo
 
I swear and bet: some of these well known naysayers here will miss so many shots...even with marked ghostball spots on teh table......-- and at the same time such ppl allowing themselve to rate something wrong or call another person "wrong" ?? IN this case they would also HAVE TO call a ghostball or contact to contact system wrong (geometrically 100% correct *grin*)......just because they miss the shot because of their extremly bad fundamentals?

May everyone of you have a smooth stroke- maybe some guys start to think about that they really can insult someone with their way of communication. that they hurt people just because of a less good understanding, or whatever.


See, Think, Do

lg from overseas
Ingo
I agree. You and other CTE'rs ought to stop hurting people by telling them they can't play, stroke, gamble, make videos, hold jobs, progress in business etc.

Colin from overseas.
 
I agree. You and other CTE'rs ought to stop hurting people by telling them they can't play, stroke, gamble, make videos, hold jobs, progress in business etc.

Colin from overseas.

Well Colin,

i not sure why you attack me personall here. But hey- if you feel better by randomly hit the button, then may it be so. And i don t think you could catch me somewhere where i have said: "you cannot play"- that s bullshit.
We have enough players around the world who got world beaters by using so many systems.
but they all have one thing in common-- they put in the necessary work and time.


A bit wondering about your post- really. From you i didn t expect such a posting. really not.
have a nice day.
 
Well Colin,

i not sure why you attack me personall here. But hey- if you feel better by randomly hit the button, then may it be so. And i don t think you could catch me somewhere where i have said: "you cannot play"- that s bullshit.
We have enough players around the world who got world beaters by using so many systems.
but they all have one thing in common-- they put in the necessary work and time.


A bit wondering about your post- really. From you i didn t expect such a posting. really not.
have a nice day.
Hi Ratta,
I enjoyed a lot of aspects of your post. I think you were trying to achieve positive things from it, perhaps even a bonding based on our journeys of similar interest and discovery.

In the part I quoted you wrote"I swear and bet: some of these well known naysayers here will miss so many shots".

It's no big deal to me, just thought it was a bit funny.

Best regards and good luck in your teaching. :)

Colin
 
Hi Ratta,
I enjoyed a lot of aspects of your post. I think you were trying to achieve positive things from it, perhaps even a bonding based on our journeys of similar interest and discovery.

In the part I quoted you wrote"I swear and bet: some of these well known naysayers here will miss so many shots".

It's no big deal to me, just thought it was a bit funny.

Best regards and good luck in your teaching. :)

Colin

Colin,

the two "people" i could name (what i will definitley not do to don t start a shitstorm again), i saw on video- and comparing with their texts here on the forum....- i have build my opinion about it. After seeing such things, i think i was kind of "allowed" to write this stuff.
Furthermore i posted this also from my real-life expirience with players (from all calibers). It s just a matter of the human nature, that they tend to see themselves much better, than they really are :-) (related to skills in billiard for example).
I just wanted to point out, that no matter what system you use- you need to start with strong basics/fundamentals.
And that it s maybe more clever to sometimes just shutup (for some ppl :p ) and do their homework before trying to bark with even more knowledgeable ppl.


take care,
Ingo
 
I could not agree with you more, and trust me I have experienced this as well in my past career as an educator. There were times of frustration which were tied to some policy or method developed by someone who never set a foot in a classroom to teach.

For myself, I hold others thoughts and experiences in higher regard that have been there and done it, then those who debate it with their assumed logic and thought exercises.




Colin,

the two "people" i could name (what i will definitley not do to don t start a shitstorm again), i saw on video- and comparing with their texts here on the forum....- i have build my opinion about it. After seeing such things, i think i was kind of "allowed" to write this stuff.
Furthermore i posted this also from my real-life expirience with players (from all calibers). It s just a matter of the human nature, that they tend to see themselves much better, than they really are :-) (related to skills in billiard for example).
I just wanted to point out, that no matter what system you use- you need to start with strong basics/fundamentals.
And that it s maybe more clever to sometimes just shutup (for some ppl :p ) and do their homework before trying to bark with even more knowledgeable ppl.


take care,
Ingo
 
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For myself, I hold others thoughts and experiences in higher regard that have been there and done it, then those who debate it with their assumed logic and thought exercises.
Correlation does not equal Causation. While there is a correlation between talent and knowledge, those with talent are not always more knowledgeable than those without such talent.

Most of the myths of the game were started by good players. I've met many good players and few of them understand how they do what they do, let alone explain and teach it.

I'm pretty sure Einstein wouldn't have known where to start making an atomic explosive. Maybe a lot of engineers thought he was an idiot as his knowledge was ethereal.
 
I could not agree with you more, and trust me I have experienced this as well in my past career as an educator. There were times of frustration which were tied to some policy or method developed by someone who never set a foot in a classroom to teach.

For myself, I hold others thoughts and experiences in higher regard that have been there and done it, then those who debate it with their assumed logic and thought exercises.

So then, you dont trust your own experiences but others?

Funny, I trust no ones experinces but my own. Guess that makes my own man and not a man made up of others experinces.

Once you start selling your knowledge, it becomes a product and now you are a salesman. Products are fixed. Knowledge grows.

If you teach from a set standard, you are not a master but ajust mimicking someone's else products and not your knowledge.
 
So then, you dont trust your own experiences but others?

Funny, I trust no ones experinces but my own. Guess that makes my own man and not a man made up of others experinces.

Once you start selling your knowledge, it becomes a product and now you are a salesman. Products are fixed. Knowledge grows.

If you teach from a set standard, you are not a master but ajust mimicking someone's else products and not your knowledge.

I want to put you on ignore so bad, but it's posts like these that make me think otherwise.

Have you ever tried your hand at stand up comedy?
 
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