Is the Cue Market Dead Now and Forever?
- Thread starter Quality Cues
- Start date
That's excactly correct the false economy produced a lot of disposable income , cue prices like a lot of things went way beyond thier worth, it's highly unlikely it will ever be repeated
1
There are many overlapping "cue markets." Compared to 5-10 years ago activity with new cues has slowed with some good reasons already mentioned. It's more difficult today for sure. I'm thankful I don't have to live off of my cues business. The area where cue new sales are not happening like they used to are places like Super Billiards Expo I did this show 8 out of 9 years. More and more sales are online and increasingly outside the USA. As long as people play pool and can afford nice things there will always be a place for new cue sales. The biggest problem with new cues today is having inventory that people want (that is inventory with good traction). In general, like fine watches and perhaps musical instruments like boutique guitars, fine new cues require a longer floor time in general before a sale happens. It looks like some AZers who are otherwise smart cannot comprehend this. Lastly, with some exception everyday AZers are not my market for new cues. I'm much more likely to sell them a wrap. I have no plans to head for the sidelines! Martin
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No matter how the forum is set up, whether it be combined or Wanted and For Sale separate you can not let people post more than once every 48 hours in a thread. It becomes a haven for "great cue, awesome deal, wish I had the money, someone buy this...etc"
It's not dead yet but it's getting there and if more pool room close then it will be there but I don't think it's the market...I think it's the website cause people just keep ripping people off and the bumping rules SUCK! Not fun like it used to be so people just don't login as much as they used to
That's a nice Scruggs you got :thumbup:
I'm a newbie - lurked a while before I joined - but even I've been here activity has taken a serious downward turn, which I do believe to be at least in part due to the new bumping rules. Want to see a booming cue market? Go to Facebook. Cues are moving on Facebook in a way that they really aren't here. I like it here better, but if I want to see more cues than the current pittance AZ has to offer I have to go there.
I don't know if cues are truly moving on Facebook. It's the same sellers and buyers for the large part, the venue is just different. While I see a lot of sales, I still see the same cues appearing and reappearing as it happens here. The one thing I have noticed about facebook is the smaller cues are moving and not the $2k and above cues. If you have something made of dymondwood then yes it will sell right away, as that seems to be the break and jump cue wood of choice lately.
R.I.P.
The market is dead because there are a lot of cuemakers from all over the world now and the internet has made it easy for buyers to research a cue and decide if the price is worth it. There are still a few good deals but they are rare now. I've been over to facebook and it looks pretty scary doing deals on that site except with the usual azber's I see on it. The wanted/forsale forum is dead here and I see brand new cuemakers cues being listed for 1000-1500 for plain jane cues and shake my head. It's just a piece of wood!
The market is dead because there are a lot of cuemakers from all over the world now and the internet has made it easy for buyers to research a cue and decide if the price is worth it. There are still a few good deals but they are rare now. I've been over to facebook and it looks pretty scary doing deals on that site except with the usual azber's I see on it. The wanted/forsale forum is dead here and I see brand new cuemakers cues being listed for 1000-1500 for plain jane cues and shake my head. It's just a piece of wood!
History Alays Repeats itself I One Form Or Another
I'll tell you what will kick start the pool industry all over again.......look at history and look at how the millennial generation relate to film media......and then young teenagers........
Okay .......after WWII, G.I.'s returned to America and we witnessed a boom in pool.......soldiers that played pool & ping pong at the UFO and pool played in pubs while stationed in England, these guys returned home itching to play.
Brunswick still hadn't spotted the possibilities and it wasn't until the post wartime economy boomed whereby disposable income increased for most families, and there was the the GI bill, low mortgage homes, etc. Pool parlors started to blossom in the 50's and early 60's. Brunswick came out with the 9" table and crazy crayon color cloths.....pool rooms were like neon or so it seemed with the newer pool rooms. Long established parlors still were wooden tables and green felt but young folks didn't go those locations.
The stage was set for the first big explosion.....1960/61......"The Hustler" came out and what a great movie it was....tremendous stars....strong story....Academy Award nominations......Paul Newman at his best......and a tremendous pool story to boot......I was 14 years old and it suckered me in.....started playing at confraternity at the local schools....couldn't wait to turn 16 so I could walk in the front doors of a pool hall unescorted by someone over 18 yrs. old. As soon as I turned 16 yrs old, I started going to Balabushka's joint in Bay Ridge......and Ames in NYC on Sat nights......Wow, pool was glorious at that time.
Pool went crazy nationwide and continued that way for awhile but towards the late 70's and early 80's, the duldrums were setting in and then in 1986, The Color of Money came out......and crazy old Vincent caught the attention of America's youth.....everyone wanted to be Tom Cruise........and Balabushka cues jumped up in price fast........and the pool industry witnessed a rebirth of sorts......pool bounced back as an industry.
Voila ....here we are today....basically at rock bottom.....did anyone see the movie "Lawless"? It was about moonshining back in '31 when prohibition was around. America is in love with the first Godfather movie........same goes for the series on HBO...."Boardwalk Empire"......well, I have a idea that should be a sure fire hit.
You probably already figured out that I was going to write we need a movie about pool......not some crap like Pool Hall Junkies, or any reality shows....Nope, we need a "good" film.......and surprisingly I am not recommending Willie Mosconi's life story. Although he's undoubtedly the best to ever play the game, his life story wasn't exciting or that interesting aside from the great pool he played.
The film needs to be set in the Prohibition period and there needs to be talent behind the film.......Shia LaBeouf actually played a good part in the movie Lawless......I mention him because of the need to appeal to the millennial market and he seems like a likely candidate but there are always others to consider. The film needs someone like a Matt Damon creative type as the producer....maybe even a Tom Hardy bad guy character......and I have the story to go with this idea.....I've given this a lot of thought.
If a film was made about Cornbread Red's life story, with some editorial freedom to create some storied matches, and with today's camera technology to film pool shots, and the right cast........America would fall in love with pool all over again.......Cornbread's story coincides with Prohibition........he was a gambler extraordinaire.....and the right actor could make him come to life on the silver screen......and remember how much America loves stories involving the Prohibition era.
Jeez, you could have some gangster characters in the film too since pool was everyone's thing back then......Myer Lansky could be the money behind some guy Cornbread had to play.....Lucky Lucianno character might fit in too.......think about it......I can see the background of the old cars, the attire, round collared shirts, striped suits and the seedy aspect of pool as well like was preached in the film Music Man by Robert Preston. This is just a time in America lore that has enormous appeal and I'd love to hear your opinions.
Anyway, that's my panacea for igniting the spark again and I'm sure it would be a hit....just needs the right cast of actors......the storyline awaits.
Matt B.
I'll tell you what will kick start the pool industry all over again.......look at history and look at how the millennial generation relate to film media......and then young teenagers........
Okay .......after WWII, G.I.'s returned to America and we witnessed a boom in pool.......soldiers that played pool & ping pong at the UFO and pool played in pubs while stationed in England, these guys returned home itching to play.
Brunswick still hadn't spotted the possibilities and it wasn't until the post wartime economy boomed whereby disposable income increased for most families, and there was the the GI bill, low mortgage homes, etc. Pool parlors started to blossom in the 50's and early 60's. Brunswick came out with the 9" table and crazy crayon color cloths.....pool rooms were like neon or so it seemed with the newer pool rooms. Long established parlors still were wooden tables and green felt but young folks didn't go those locations.
The stage was set for the first big explosion.....1960/61......"The Hustler" came out and what a great movie it was....tremendous stars....strong story....Academy Award nominations......Paul Newman at his best......and a tremendous pool story to boot......I was 14 years old and it suckered me in.....started playing at confraternity at the local schools....couldn't wait to turn 16 so I could walk in the front doors of a pool hall unescorted by someone over 18 yrs. old. As soon as I turned 16 yrs old, I started going to Balabushka's joint in Bay Ridge......and Ames in NYC on Sat nights......Wow, pool was glorious at that time.
Pool went crazy nationwide and continued that way for awhile but towards the late 70's and early 80's, the duldrums were setting in and then in 1986, The Color of Money came out......and crazy old Vincent caught the attention of America's youth.....everyone wanted to be Tom Cruise........and Balabushka cues jumped up in price fast........and the pool industry witnessed a rebirth of sorts......pool bounced back as an industry.
Voila ....here we are today....basically at rock bottom.....did anyone see the movie "Lawless"? It was about moonshining back in '31 when prohibition was around. America is in love with the first Godfather movie........same goes for the series on HBO...."Boardwalk Empire"......well, I have a idea that should be a sure fire hit.
You probably already figured out that I was going to write we need a movie about pool......not some crap like Pool Hall Junkies, or any reality shows....Nope, we need a "good" film.......and surprisingly I am not recommending Willie Mosconi's life story. Although he's undoubtedly the best to ever play the game, his life story wasn't exciting or that interesting aside from the great pool he played.
The film needs to be set in the Prohibition period and there needs to be talent behind the film.......Shia LaBeouf actually played a good part in the movie Lawless......I mention him because of the need to appeal to the millennial market and he seems like a likely candidate but there are always others to consider. The film needs someone like a Matt Damon creative type as the producer....maybe even a Tom Hardy bad guy character......and I have the story to go with this idea.....I've given this a lot of thought.
If a film was made about Cornbread Red's life story, with some editorial freedom to create some storied matches, and with today's camera technology to film pool shots, and the right cast........America would fall in love with pool all over again.......Cornbread's story coincides with Prohibition........he was a gambler extraordinaire.....and the right actor could make him come to life on the silver screen......and remember how much America loves stories involving the Prohibition era.
Jeez, you could have some gangster characters in the film too since pool was everyone's thing back then......Myer Lansky could be the money behind some guy Cornbread had to play.....Lucky Lucianno character might fit in too.......think about it......I can see the background of the old cars, the attire, round collared shirts, striped suits and the seedy aspect of pool as well like was preached in the film Music Man by Robert Preston. This is just a time in America lore that has enormous appeal and I'd love to hear your opinions.
Anyway, that's my panacea for igniting the spark again and I'm sure it would be a hit....just needs the right cast of actors......the storyline awaits.
Matt B.
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There is a huge decline in the number of people who play and especially the number of people who collect.
I'm 34 and most people in my age group have extremely high student debt and a much higher cost of living than previous generations. This results in less disposable income. Young people spend their money now on experiences instead of possessions.
Also, the "churn cost" of selling a cue online especially cuts into this considerably. Previously I htink more cues were sold in person for cash but now with paypal and shipping costs this means you need to make six or seven percent before you are honestly breaking even.
I'm 34 and most people in my age group have extremely high student debt and a much higher cost of living than previous generations. This results in less disposable income. Young people spend their money now on experiences instead of possessions.
Also, the "churn cost" of selling a cue online especially cuts into this considerably. Previously I htink more cues were sold in person for cash but now with paypal and shipping costs this means you need to make six or seven percent before you are honestly breaking even.
JimmyK,
Your 100% right on!
A forum needs participation in order for it to survive..
I have been piddling with cues for almost 50 years. I have watched the evolution of the cue craft very closely during that time and from what I have seen, there are just not enough high rollers to sustain dealing with cues that cost a thou or more. How many have been disappointed after waiting for years to get their dream cue, when many imports they happen to try play better.
I don't know about most of you sellers, but I am on track to have my best year ever. My sales were up 20-25 percent in 2014. I attribute the increase to the oil money that is flowing again in Texas, but with the recent decline in drilling and production may bring everything to a screeching halt.
People are coming in my shop and not buying one cue for themselves, but buying their buddy or girlfriend/wife a cue also. I cant ever remember having so many multiple cue sales, it was just one cue every now and then.
The secret to my success is that I have taken on many lines of lower end cues. Cues that I have found to be a good value, and cues that I don't have to fix. When the customer is satisfied with their purchase, they come back and want a nicer cue or upgrade. One problem is that the lower end cues are of such decent quality today, a lot of customers just come back to get a tip replacement or cue tune up.
But, every time I put a cue in someones hands, there is potential to get another victim addicted to our wonderful sport.
I don't know about most of you sellers, but I am on track to have my best year ever. My sales were up 20-25 percent in 2014. I attribute the increase to the oil money that is flowing again in Texas, but with the recent decline in drilling and production may bring everything to a screeching halt.
People are coming in my shop and not buying one cue for themselves, but buying their buddy or girlfriend/wife a cue also. I cant ever remember having so many multiple cue sales, it was just one cue every now and then.
The secret to my success is that I have taken on many lines of lower end cues. Cues that I have found to be a good value, and cues that I don't have to fix. When the customer is satisfied with their purchase, they come back and want a nicer cue or upgrade. One problem is that the lower end cues are of such decent quality today, a lot of customers just come back to get a tip replacement or cue tune up.
But, every time I put a cue in someones hands, there is potential to get another victim addicted to our wonderful sport.
I proposed this very thing about a year ago...in fact, I think a bio pic about Greenleaf would be awesome; a compelling fall from Grace story, Prohibition era, gangsters, cool clothes, show girl wife, big personalities, lots of action, you couldn't miss. I think Casey Afleck would win an Oscar in that role (did you see him as Bob Ford in the Jesse James movie?).
The cue market isnt dead we just arent creating new players.
The internet and ebay as well as places like the F/S section on here has killed the resale market. There is no reason to pay anything. There is nothing unique about the cues and there are dozens more for sale. People get used to lowballing on price and if they don't get it so what, on to the next.
Reason
The reason for that is in addition to it being a very well made cue with a rich history behind it South West Cues will not compromise itself. They truly do have a 10-12 year wait and will not let anyone sponge to the front of the line when $ is waved at them.
We have all heard stories how some top tier Cuemakers will slide someone in if they are willing to pay a big buck for a cue.
Why should someone pay a secondary mark up when they can offer it to the cue maker for a new cue. You can't do that with SW you either wait 10-12 years or buy one on the secondary market at the going price.
The reason for that is in addition to it being a very well made cue with a rich history behind it South West Cues will not compromise itself. They truly do have a 10-12 year wait and will not let anyone sponge to the front of the line when $ is waved at them.
We have all heard stories how some top tier Cuemakers will slide someone in if they are willing to pay a big buck for a cue.
Why should someone pay a secondary mark up when they can offer it to the cue maker for a new cue. You can't do that with SW you either wait 10-12 years or buy one on the secondary market at the going price.