eBay unknown cue...

[macguy]

Nothing unusual at all on those prices for that time period. For most makers (and there weren't many), a plain birdseye would go for $110 or so, and a Hoppe or regular four point would be anywhere from 140 to 160 or so. These were the good old days, when $300 got you a pretty fancy cue.

I am just saying Black had production cues at that time that did not say Richard Black on them.. I had about a dozen of them in the pool room about that time. The prices on the picture are I would assume retail prices. I paid like 40% less then that.

When Black started making cues he was expensive right out of the box. There were no four point cues with two shafts for $140.00 like Joss. The plain 4 point cue he made me was around $450.00 I remember well because it got stolen from my truck.

I collected from my home owners ins and remember having to jump through hoops to get paid. I actually had to have the ins company contact Black to confirm the value of the cue. They would not accept that a cue cost that much.

 

[jasonlaus]

R Black wouldn't date a cue if he thought it was for resale

 

[Shooter08]

Better than Minimum Wage now

My thirteenth job, in 1962, was at McDonald's. When I got a raise from 90 cents an hour to a buck, I bought a custom '56 Ford with the big motor, had a decent apartment, bowled two nights a week, played pool, chased girls and had plenty of money for beer.

$1 a hour 1962, equivalent of $7.76 in 2014, national minimum wage $7.25......

 

[subdude1974]

Since I have blown my cue buying budget on the three vintage Joss cues that disappeared of Ebay I will throw you guys a bone.

It's clearly a 1978 Richard Black. If you go to Jimbo Army you can find a thread called 25 + years old cue catalogs. Dozens of vintage catalogs.
This is the web page.

http://www.jimboarmy.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1010&hilit=richard+black+catalog

It is listed on the first page cue 2 on the 1978 cues. Black used the stick rings with 6 pairs of small ebony checks. Only Szamboti did similiar rings prior and it definitely not his work.

Can't wait to get ahold of those early Joss cues. I'll post them here after refinishing.

I saw them but didn't want to waste time. All needed work and the only one that was in good shape had the buttcap replaced and only 2 of the 4 shafts matched anything out all 3 and one needed the ivory joint replaced. I hope it works out for you but all I see is a remake of "The Money Pit".

 

[macguy]

Nothing unusual at all on those prices for that time period. For most makers (and there weren't many), a plain birdseye would go for $110 or so, and a Hoppe or regular four point would be anywhere from 140 to 160 or so. These were the good old days, when $300 got you a pretty fancy cue.

It is interesting, back in those days the few cuemakers there were didn't know what the market was. They seemed to price their cues in the same range of say Palmer. They didn't know there was a cue market.

In the early 70's I had a Balabushka on order and if I remember right it was around $120.00 with 2 shafts. About the same time I got a cue from Ginacue and it was $600.00.

Black and Ginacue right off the bat they set their own values and people paid it.

 

[2strong4u]

I saw them but didn't want to waste time. All needed work and the only one that was in good shape had the buttcap replaced and only 2 of the 4 shafts matched anything out all 3 and one needed the ivory joint replaced. I hope it works out for you but all I see is a remake of "The Money Pit".

If you get in at the right price it's no big thing. If fact the fixer upper route works well because when you are done the cues are perfect...and perfect sells. I'v done this many times. Only lost $60 on a cue one time. Just buy priced right and know what you are getting into for costs. The Richard Black cue is already too high for me, but is a real nice looking player.

The one buttcap is likely original and just unmarked as some 1973-75 era Joss cues were. It will be easy to tell once I have it in hand. People who don't know this assume they were replaced. The finish on that cue looks fine. That cue is the one I'm thinking of holding on to.

Other 2 need refinishing and one needs a new ivory joint. I can get that all done reasonably. About $300 plus the ivory blank which I have access to. When they are done they will be perfect.

 

[WildWing]

I am just saying Black had production cues at that time that did not say Richard Black on them.. I had about a dozen of them in the pool room about that time. The prices on the picture are I would assume retail prices. I paid like 40% less then that.

When Black started making cues he was expensive right out of the box. There were no four point cues with two shafts for $140.00 like Joss. The plain 4 point cue he made me was around $450.00 I remember well because it got stolen from my truck.

I collected from my home owners ins and remember having to jump through hoops to get paid. I actually had to have the ins company contact Black to confirm the value of the cue. They would not accept that a cue cost that much.

Then you definitely bought from Richard Black into the mid 80s when prices had climbed a bit. The link provided proves that cues were priced pretty reasonably in 1978 or so, with a four point going for 125 to 140 or so. Don't believe? Here is a 1978 Bill Stroud, Joss West Brochure, with his four point going from 115 to 125, depending on whether it was rosewood or ebony. Not sure why he charged less for rosewood, as it became more scarce in decades to follow. Also, here is Richard Blacks brochure from 1982. His prices had gone up a bit by then, as he was getting known. But not too much. But the late 70s was the time to buy cues, as I hope you 've seen by the link. Not sure why you don't believe those RB prices in the link, they are what they are.

 

[macguy]

Then you definitely bought from Richard Black into the mid 80s when prices had climbed a bit. The link provided proves that cues were priced pretty reasonably in 1978 or so, with a four point going for 125 to 140 or so. Don't believe? Here is a 1978 Bill Stroud, Joss West Brochure, with his four point going from 115 to 125, depending on whether it was rosewood or ebony. Not sure why he charged less for rosewood, as it became more scarce in decades to follow. Also, here is Richard Blacks brochure from 1982. His prices had gone up a bit by then, as he was getting known. But not too much. But the late 70s was the time to buy cues, as I hope you 've seen by the link. Not sure why you don't believe those RB prices in the link, they are what they are.

The cue I was referring to he made for me was a four point Rambow style.
It had two shafts, ivory ferrules, maybe an ivory joint I am not sure and an ivory ring in the butt.

It was in the late 70's though because I didn't not have it long before it was stolen. When it was stolen I had just come back from the movies seeing Rocky, that is why I remember it. I was talking with the cops about the movie as they took the report.

I was thinking when I saw those prices that maybe they were the production cues Black was selling around that time. The prices just looked low to me. The first time I had any contact with Richard Black was when he was first building cues.

I may have ordered one of his first cues and they were already more expensive then established cue makers. I was a cue nut and ordered cues from everybody back then.

I had one of Szamboti's first cues because I knew his uncle and he hustled me into ordering a cue from his nephew who had just started building cues. It was probably the first cue he sold to someone he didn't know personally.

Szamboti over the years made me I think 6 cues and he built one for my wife that she flew to his shop to pick up personally.

 

[RingKing]

case

So we know the cue is a late 70's R. Black
What about the case?
Could be a Gina Case .... per Mr. Helfert.

Any other ideas?

 

[WildWing]

The cue I was referring to he made for me was a four point Rambow style.
It had two shafts, ivory ferrules, maybe an ivory joint I am not sure and an ivory ring in the butt.

It was in the late 70's though because I didn't not have it long before it was stolen. When it was stolen I had just come back from the movies seeing Rocky, that is why I remember it. I was talking with the cops about the movie as they took the report.

I was thinking when I saw those prices that maybe they were the production cues Black was selling around that time. The prices just looked low to me. The first time I had any contact with Richard Black was when he was first building cues.

I may have ordered one of his first cues and they were already more expensive then established cue makers. I was a cue nut and ordered cues from everybody back then.

I had one of Szamboti's first cues because I knew his uncle and he hustled me into ordering a cue from his nephew who had just started building cues. It was probably the first cue he sold to someone he didn't know personally.

Szamboti over the years made me I think 6 cues and he built one for my wife that she flew to his shop to pick up personally.

Whoa, champ, slow down a bit. In the late 70s, Richard wasn't even doing ivory jointed cues. And his four pointers were in the 100's, not the 400s. Same for the other cuemakers.

I think your Rocky/Szamboti/Szamboti nephews, escapades have you a bit confused. Those are obviously not your more controlled moments, as you seem to well, sort ot, recall.

No judgement here, but plain cues were not in the 400s in the late 70s. Period. They were in the 100s.

 

[flufly da killa]

its a black i have one like it

 

[cue fix]

So we know the cue is a late 70's R. Black
What about the case?
Could be a Gina Case .... per Mr. Helfert.

Any other ideas?

The case could just be an Adam made case with the logo worn off, as they made this style case as well.

 

[2strong4u]

So we know the cue is a late 70's R. Black
What about the case?
Could be a Gina Case .... per Mr. Helfert.

Any other ideas?

That's an Adam case. You can tell by the latch shape and the cheesy vinyl print. They sell about $150 mostly. They sold many without logos. Their latch has that curved bottom. If there was a photo of the end of the case you could see the bottom and top are a separate panel, also can tell by metal feet placement.

Cue sitting at $1200 now...

 

[KRJ]

Whoa, champ, slow down a bit. In the late 70s, Richard wasn't even doing ivory jointed cues. And his four pointers were in the 100's, not the 400s. Same for the other cuemakers.

I think your Rocky/Szamboti/Szamboti nephews, escapades have you a bit confused. Those are obviously not your more controlled moments, as you seem to well, sort ot, recall.

No judgement here, but plain cues were not in the 400s in the late 70s. Period. They were in the 100s.

Burton Spain cues were a $125 for a plain jane in the mid to late 70's. Full splice were a little higher.

 

[jaetee]

I know this cue talk is riveting... (that's not sarcasm)

But, did anyone else get laugh out of this part of the description:

"This belonged to my late husband who was a serious player at pool, horses, cards and Vegas. I was a serious 9 to 5er."

 

[cueaddicts]

I know this cue talk is riveting... (that's not sarcasm)

But, did anyone else get laugh out of this part of the description:

"This belonged to my late husband who was a serious player at pool, horses, cards and Vegas. I was a serious 9 to 5er."

Some things never change...lol.

Wow, $1200.....actually, double wow !!!!!

 

[macguy]

Whoa, champ, slow down a bit. In the late 70s, Richard wasn't even doing ivory jointed cues. And his four pointers were in the 100's, not the 400s. Same for the other cuemakers.

I think your Rocky/Szamboti/Szamboti nephews, escapades have you a bit confused. Those are obviously not your more controlled moments, as you seem to well, sort ot, recall.

No judgement here, but plain cues were not in the 400s in the late 70s. Period. They were in the 100s.

I am not wrong on that price. Danny DiLiberto was acting as sort of an agent for Black at the time and you could order cues through Danny. I am sure Richard Black will remember that if you ask him.

Danny took the order and I also spoke to Black on the phone. Did I get screwed by Danny and Black on a custom order, who knows. My Rocky reference is correct because I owned a pool room at the time.

When they broke into my truck and stole the cue it was just a bonus. They were after and got a money bag that was behind the seat and also a gun that they may also have been after. I am pretty old and some things I may mis-remember I admit. I am pretty sure about that cue though. Either way it is not important.

 

[Gangplank]

Seems at $1200 the price is out in the stratosphere. It doesn't look perfect. Guess it's a collectors item.

Or does an R.Black cue at that great?!?

 

[macguy]

Seems at $1200 the price is out in the stratosphere. It doesn't look perfect. Guess it's a collectors item.

Or does an R.Black cue at that great?!?

I know someone will disagree, maybe even strongly, but I never really liked Black cues. They were beautiful and flawless in construction but to me they all played dead. I only owned 2 but hit with many and found them all to be the same.

I know the hit of a cue can be subjective but I went to a lot of tournaments at one time and you rarely saw a player using a Black cue. They used everything else but not Blacks.

This was my observation anyway. Miz used a Black cue for a long time but they were buddies and I guess he liked the cue he had. Getting back to that dead feel. It can be kind of crazy but it is not in my mind.

I could pick up a cheap-ass Meucci and play run out 9 ball moving the cue ball at will anywhere I wanted. Then pick up a cue like a Black that I refer to as dead and you feel like it is a struggle to get around the table with any accuracy. That is not in your head, it is real.

 

[2strong4u]

$1675 on the mystery cue. Auction ends Sunday at 345 pm est. Could top 2k.