Overlap Contact Point Aiming

[Ralph Kramden]

RK,
Thanks for the pic. EZ.
You
Once the contact point on the OB is established, you capture the distance to the edge of the OB from that contact point. To see the eclipse or football, you need to be down on the shot so that you can visually overlap the CB edge the same distance to the other side of the contact point on the OB - the same original distance or opposite

The problem with this is that the CB will appear to be larger than the OB especially if the separation between the two is large. So the distance that you see on the smaller OB cannot be used on the CB to create the football for the proportions will be different.

This why I use the fraction of the OB from the contact point to its edge.to the same fraction on the larger CB - this is proportional. 1/4 of the OB to the obverse 1/4 on the CB or CP2CP.(contact point on the OB lined up with the contact point on the CB).

Say the shot is cutting the OB to the left. The football will materialize on the right side of the OB and the left side of the CB, but the center of the CB is also to the right of that aim line. The challenge is to move or get the cue to the right and parallel to that aim line so that the tip is now pointed at the center of the CB.

This becomes obvious when attempting a 90 degree cut.

Your concept is viable/usefull for some shooters that can visualize the football as you do.

Thanks and be well.

LAMas.. You're correct about the visual differences of the balls. I was thinking about adding more to this thread about CP2CP
and the tangent line.. or what I'd prefer to call the Stun Line. I once posted a thread about SLAP aiming (Stun Line Aim Point).

Actually the visual size of both balls makes absolutely no difference if you aim the CB center to where you want to hit the OB.
Even though the CB does look larger, the center is always the same. When the CB gets to the OB they're both the same size.
Find the aim point (edge of football) on the OB, past the contact point. Aim the center of the CB to the OB aim point and hit it.

That being said, you're correct again, if the center of the CB is aimed outside the OB edge. The football shape edge changes.

As stated, it is harder to judge the equal distance contact points as the cut angles get wider and I start looking at the stun line.
.

 

[Mirza]

You look to see where the contact point is on the OB. Once you establish the contact point you draw a mental line to the top of the OB. The overlap between the two balls will create a V. You align the CB over the OB so the bottom point of your V is above the contact point.

Awesome picture, I've never thought about this, thank you

 

[336Robin]

Understandability is Good

I wouldn't say that exactly. I can miss balls right along with the best of them.
This is very close to the way I aim, but it's the best way that I can explain it.
When I'm on a run I don't think about pocketing balls, just getting CB shape.

.

Well you know I am always amazed at what people tell me when I ask them how they aim but at least I could understand exactly what you said....thats a lot.

 

[cutemonster]

this is great post. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Don't get in front of me or behind me when we are driving or we may crash into each other. LOL.

One of my secrets to aligning my eyes on the way to the pool hall is to do something similar to what you are seeing. I know my eyes won't be adjusted for playing, so I "fine-tune" them on the way to Hawaiian Brian's...it is about a 25 mile highway ride.

I am left-eye dominant and am right handed. I hold the steering wheel with my left arm straight out holding the top of the wheel and I point my index finger at the lane markers on the left side of my car and line it up just parallel to the oil stains down the center of the lane as I'm driving down the center of the lane. If you don't move your hand and just drive along, you will notice that your car is staying in the center of your lane almost without you even thinking about it. Even around curves.

This allows my left arm to be outstretched like in a bridge and I am aligning my vision to see the center of my alignment and it lets me see parallel lines before I get to the pool hall. When I get to the pool hall and look down my arm at my first shot or two, my eyes focus much faster and I am able to see the parallel lines better.

Don't try this if you are driving next to me or Colin. This is only for professionals. LMAO! Beep! Beep! Honk! Honk!

Aloha. And safe driving.

In edit: I just wanted to comment that we must somewhat be on the same frequency, because I was going to post a new thread altogether on this very subject just this week and didn't get around to it, but your post made me think of it.

LOL... just spotted this... have been away.

I must say though, that I have thought that a long drive to a tourney does seem to tune my eyes up.

Cheers,
Colin ~ Adjusting his steering wheel to its pivot point.

 

[336Robin]

Eye Tune

LOL... just spotted this... have been away.

I must say though, that I have thought that a long drive to a tourney does seem to tune my eyes up.

Cheers,
Colin ~ Adjusting his steering wheel to its pivot point.

Ha, Ha nice one, I used to take my glasses off and put on some shades and let my eyes relax, then once I was under the lights everything looked so new. A nice drive is awesome.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

If you've been following this thread you may find this post interesting.. If not read post 1 and post 21 first. Thanks.

I won't be talking about football shapes again. I used a football edge in reference to the Overlap Contact Point.
No one will actually see a football. It's after you find the equal distance aim point is what I now want to discuss.

The previous posts were about where a center CB aim would contact the OB. This way of aiming will work well
if using it in conjunction with the ghost ball for aim reference. The CB would also roll right over the point of the
infamous Babe Cranfield contact patch arrow. But now let's get into how this works using off center CB contact.

Anytime the CB is hit off center it deflects. How much you can control this deflection depends on the cue used.... and lot's of practice.
If you're using center CB contacts exclusively, you probably could be playing much better CB shape by using some off center CB hits.

So how do you aim with CB deflection? After you find your aim point, you need to get to the overlap contact point. I was thinking about the posts by CJ Wiley and his TOI. He talks about his 3 part pocket aiming system, and that got me thinking (a rare moment) about equal distance overlap contact points using TOI.

I think that is exactly what CJ is saying (maybe CJ could chime in). On a cut shot you aim to the near pocket point (slight under cut). The CB deflects to the exact pocketing contact point or beyond (slight over cut). The slight over cut is actually a good thing because you would hit the pocket facing on the far side.

Of course the are other factors to consider, but the pocket plays wider IMO. Hitting the near pocket tip can make it rattle but it goes in center or off the facing.

Now back to the football shape for a second. The wider the cut angle, the shape moves from the OB center and starts deflating like a Tom Brady football.

Time to flame on
.

 

[LAMas]

If you've been following this thread you may find this post interesting.. If not read post 1 and post 21 first. Thanks.

I won't be talking about football shapes again. I used a football edge in reference to the Overlap Contact Point.
No one will actually see a football. It's after you find the equal distance aim point is what I now want to discuss.

The previous posts were about where a center CB aim would contact the OB. This way of aiming will work well
if using it in conjunction with the ghost ball for aim reference. The CB would also roll right over the point of the
infamous Babe Cranfield contact patch arrow. But now let's get into how this works using off center CB contact.

Anytime the CB is hit off center it deflects. How much you can control this deflection depends on the cue used.... and lot's of practice.
If you're using center CB contacts exclusively, you probably could be playing much better CB shape by using some off center CB hits.

So how do you aim with CB deflection? After you find your aim point, you need to get to the overlap contact point. I was thinking about the posts by CJ Wiley and his TOI. He talks about his 3 part pocket aiming system, and that got me thinking (a rare moment) about equal distance overlap contact points using TOI.

I think that is exactly what CJ is saying (maybe CJ could chime in). On a cut shot you aim to the near pocket point (slight under cut). The CB deflects to the exact pocketing contact point or beyond (slight over cut). The slight over cut is actually a good thing because you would hit the pocket facing on the far side.

Of course the are other factors to consider, but the pocket plays wider IMO. Hitting the near pocket tip can make it rattle but it goes in center or off the facing.

Now back to the football shape for a second. The wider the cut angle, the shape moves from the OB center and starts deflating like a Tom Brady football.

Time to flame on
.

Let's carry the football a bit longer. It is another way to visualize the double the distance (DD) method of aiming. The results may not be the same because of the CB appearing larger than the OB if overlapped. If you take the Cb out of the picture, and can visualize the football on only the OB, its outside edge is double the distance aiming.

When the CB and OB are very close together, DD aiming is not geometrically correct (too thick) and Dr. Dave has a diagram why.

Be well.

 

[ENGLISH!]

If you've been following this thread you may find this post interesting.. If not read post 1 and post 21 first. Thanks.

I won't be talking about football shapes again. I used a football edge in reference to the Overlap Contact Point.
No one will actually see a football. It's after you find the equal distance aim point is what I now want to discuss.

The previous posts were about where a center CB aim would contact the OB. This way of aiming will work well
if using it in conjunction with the ghost ball for aim reference. The CB would also roll right over the point of the
infamous Babe Cranfield contact patch arrow. But now let's get into how this works using off center CB contact.

Anytime the CB is hit off center it deflects. How much you can control this deflection depends on the cue used.... and lot's of practice.
If you're using center CB contacts exclusively, you probably could be playing much better CB shape by using some off center CB hits.

So how do you aim with CB deflection? After you find your aim point, you need to get to the overlap contact point. I was thinking about the posts by CJ Wiley and his TOI. He talks about his 3 part pocket aiming system, and that got me thinking (a rare moment) about equal distance overlap contact points using TOI.

I think that is exactly what CJ is saying (maybe CJ could chime in). On a cut shot you aim to the near pocket point (slight under cut). The CB deflects to the exact pocketing contact point or beyond (slight over cut). The slight over cut is actually a good thing because you would hit the pocket facing on the far side.

Of course the are other factors to consider, but the pocket plays wider IMO. Hitting the near pocket tip can make it rattle but it goes in center or off the facing.

Now back to the football shape for a second. The wider the cut angle, the shape moves from the OB center and starts deflating like a Tom Brady football.

Time to flame on
.

Good post.

That is pretty much exactly what I was doing when I first started trying TOI after CJ introduced it here.

The pocket part is crucial as it relates to margin for error. I shot with english, throwing balls in, & cheating pockets for decades. So... I understood exactly what CJ meant when he talk about that.

Some can't seem to grasp it for whatever reason, maybe inexperience with spinning the CB or deflecting it & basically only playing center ball or perhaps not much experience cheating pockets, or for some other reason. I don't know.

Again, good post.

Best 2 You, Yours, & All,
Rick

PS The last line in your signature is interesting but I'd say it takes a bit more than just wrist.

 

[One Pocket John]

Another good post RK.

Thanks for the information.

John

 

[SmoothStroke]

Good work Ralph

I use 2 pocket openings, the third pocket is when I am very full and it’s wide open. I find I take advantage of the third pocket or take it for granted at times

I view through center core then adjust. Once I find the crease I push to either side I want to favor, which depends on the cut angle, either long or short, to either edge, I try to stay heavy.

Some say to never look at the pocket or the back of the pocket. I always look at the pocket and the back of the pocket, the black; I see my track more clearly and align accordingly.

If I favor the inside edge I track inside the point and the back of the pocket at the bend, and opposite for the outside edge.

Once learned tight pockets don't seem that tight.

Sincerely: SS

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Good work Ralph

I use 2 pocket openings, the third pocket is when I am very full and it’s wide open. I find I take advantage of the third pocket or take it for granted at times

I view through center core then adjust. Once I find the crease I push to either side I want to favor, which depends on the cut angle, either long or short, to either edge, I try to stay heavy.

Some say to never look at the pocket or the back of the pocket. I always look at the pocket and the back of the pocket, the black; I see my track more clearly and align accordingly.

If I favor the inside edge I track inside the point and the back of the pocket at the bend, and opposite for the outside edge.

Once learned tight pockets don't seem that tight.

Sincerely: SS

SS... I'm with you 100% about looking at the back of the pocket.
.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...how do you aim with CB deflection?...

On a cut shot you aim to the near pocket point (slight under cut). The CB deflects to the exact pocketing contact point or beyond (slight over cut). The slight over cut is actually a good thing because you would hit the pocket facing on the far side.

...the pocket plays wider IMO. Hitting the near pocket tip can make it rattle but it goes in center or off the facing.

The pocket doesn't "play wider" because you've introduced deflection. If anything the shot is harder for that.

The only difference between this "aiming with deflection" technique and simply hitting a little off center on any shot is the way it's described. You aim it and execute it exactly the same way as any off center hit, and like any off center hit, it's a little less accurate than centerball (yes, even if you don't hit "exactly" centerball).

pj
chgo

 

[Ralph Kramden]

The pocket doesn't "play wider" because you've introduced deflection. If anything the shot is harder for that.

The only difference between this "aiming with deflection" technique and simply hitting a little off center on any shot is the way it's described. You aim it and execute it exactly the same way as any off center hit, and like any off center hit, it's a little less accurate than centerball (yes, even if you don't hit "exactly" centerball).

pj
chgo

pj... Way back when, you started a post about 'thinking small on the CB'.
That small spot needs to be aimed much thicker on the OB with inside if
you hit the CB with any authority. I think it's actually more accurate. IMO
.

 

[DTL]

......................

 

[Patrick Johnson]

pj... Way back when, you started a post about 'thinking small on the CB'.
That small spot needs to be aimed much thicker on the OB with inside if
you hit the CB with any authority. I think it's actually more accurate. IMO
.

I get your idea, but I don't think the tiny difference in "target" size is nearly enough to compensate for the added inaccuracy of spin/deflection. The cure is worse than the problem.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Patrick,

If you don't mind could you tell me, just so I know, how long you've been playing the game?

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Patrick,

If you don't mind could you tell me, just so I know, how long you've been playing the game?

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

I didn't start playing regularly (several times a week) until about 20 years ago. Since I retired a few years ago I've reached obsessive-compulsive level, playing just about every day.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

I didn't start playing regularly (several times a week) until about 20 years ago. Since I retired a few years ago I've reached obsessive-compulsive level, playing just about every day.

pj
chgo

That sounds great.

I'm in & out regarding frequency. Right now, due to may Wife's knee replacement, I'm only doing 3 - 1.5 hour sessions a week.

Thanks for the info.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Some say to never look at the pocket or the back of the pocket. I always look at the pocket and the back of the pocket, the black; I see my track more clearly and align accordingly.

SS... I always look at the center of the pocket first... from the OB to between the pocket points.
I'll then pick an exact spot at the back of the pocket where the OB will miss both pocket points.

.