CTE Pro One Visual Sweep versus Manual Pivot

GoldenFlash said:
PLEASE do not stop contributing because of those who know not what they're saying.
I know you remember how I carried that cloth covered board around with me along with some balls and in between my bus stops for any length of time, I'd practice learning those perceptions. That's been about 6 months ago and now it all seems so easy.
I must have had a pretty good stroke and all that because I'm finding out now WHY I missed so many shots. I did not perceive the 15,30,45,60 angles...now I do. I am surprised myself at times when I looked at a shot, got the perception, fell into shooting position, and RELIED ON THE SYSTEM. (Not what I had done for 60 years by saying..."mmm that looks pretty good let's pull the trigger".)
Having a reliable repeatable method of getting on the proper angle is a lifesaver.
Years ago I wanted to be a good photographer...but my prints were nothing like I thought they would be. A man told me I had not learned "how to see" photographically and gave me a book called just that "How To See".
Right away I started seeing improvement...now I am pretty good.
Same thing with CTE...a person has just got to make the hard headed decision to stay with it day after day after day.... and one day, almost like magic, it kicks in and then....wow, the balls start going in the pockets more than ever before. And suddenly "seeing" the consistent angles isn't so hard anymore.
Ignore the bleating of sheep....stick with giving out the information so many players need.
Regards and THANK YOU.
Flash. (A VERY satisfied customer and student of the method)
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Flash,
Thanks for the encouragement and thank you even more for your hard work and sticktuitiveness with CTE PRO ONE. There is no chance that what I know will stay put with me. I certainly want to share here but it is very difficult. Maybe the landscape can change.
I am in the early stages of a comprehensive super manual....almost book-like. I will use it in class for individuals as well as groups but unlike previous manuals this one will likely be available to anyone.
And of course, there is YouTube.....many videos to come.
I have worked tirelessly and shared much over the past few years, only to still get slammed as Neil put it....anyway I am not going anywhere.
Stan Shuffett
 
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robsnotes4u said:
So let's try this again to see if there is an answer.

What is the correlation between the mechanical pivot and the pro one sweep? How can every person's sweep equal a 1/2 tip pivot?

The answer can't be
1. because it works
2. i have answered it before, as I have asked many times with no answer
3. it is on the dvd or youtube videos as I have watched all
4. Do not go into watch so and so videos on how they shoot. Anyone who has years of experience, has knowledge and ability before the did CTE. I would bet you shot well before hand.

My answer would be the sweep, or anything works because you have subconsciously trained through repetition to see and feel the position.

Now can you give a thorough explanation?
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Maybe I can add something.The correlation between the two, is that they both bring you to center cue ball. The pivot point and bridge point are co-located, since the bridge is not relocated once it is in place and the cue has been pivoted to center cue ball. You have alignment lines. The purpose of these alignment lines is to get you aligned correctly for finding the bridge-point. Pivoting is needed because the cue tip is deliberately pointed away from the center of the cue ball to help you find the bridge point. This is based on definitive points, easily perceived and user repeatable. I would rather aim on a level of reason and knowledge than through a sensory level alone. Hope this helped!! Thank You Stan!!
 
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Originally Posted by robsnotes4u View Post
So let's try this again to see if there is an answer.

What is the correlation between the mechanical pivot and the pro one sweep? How can every person's sweep equal a 1/2 tip pivot?


The answer of course is in the DVD's and the support material Stan has put out. But, to answer simply the correlation between the mechanical pivot and the pro one sweep is learned.

To learn the sweep, you need to start with the proper visuals and mechanical pivot and shooting stop shots, with both left and right pivots. Continue to shoot stop shots with the manual pivot until you are consistent and can stop the cue ball dead in it's tracks consistently.

Then, set up the same shots with the same visuals and "simply" drop into the shot either left or right. (sweep) You know you have it right when the cue ball stops dead in it's tracks. The sweep is learnable, repeatable and consistent once you take the time to learn it on stop shots. You can then use the sweep for all of your shots instead of the manual pivot. This includes all shots with 15, 30, 45 and 60 degree line up/ perceptions.

I am right handed and left eye dominant and have struggled for years with aiming. I have tried all the conventional methods and nothing worked for me consistently. Pro One has been a God send to my pool game. My shotmaking has increased dramatically and my rating in my handicapped pool league has increased significantly as well.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it works. The hardest part might be dropping everything you know and trying the system unencumbered. Maybe shooting with the curtain up so as to not be "distracted" with the location of the pocket could help those who are sincere in wanting to learn the system but are encumbered by previous aiming methods.

Thanks Stan for making pool fun!
 
CaptainDidactic said:
Originally Posted by robsnotes4u View Post
So let's try this again to see if there is an answer.

What is the correlation between the mechanical pivot and the pro one sweep? How can every person's sweep equal a 1/2 tip pivot?


The answer of course is in the DVD's and the support material Stan has put out. But, to answer simply the correlation between the mechanical pivot and the pro one sweep is learned.

To learn the sweep, you need to start with the proper visuals and mechanical pivot and shooting stop shots, with both left and right pivots. Continue to shoot stop shots with the manual pivot until you are consistent and can stop the cue ball dead in it's tracks consistently.

Then, set up the same shots with the same visuals and "simply" drop into the shot either left or right. (sweep) You know you have it right when the cue ball stops dead in it's tracks. The sweep is learnable, repeatable and consistent once you take the time to learn it on stop shots. You can then use the sweep for all of your shots instead of the manual pivot. This includes all shots with 15, 30, 45 and 60 degree line up/ perceptions.

I am right handed and left eye dominant and have struggled for years with aiming. I have tried all the conventional methods and nothing worked for me consistently. Pro One has been a God send to my pool game. My shotmaking has increased dramatically and my rating in my handicapped pool league has increased significantly as well.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it works. The hardest part might be dropping everything you know and trying the system unencumbered. Maybe shooting with the curtain up so as to not be "distracted" with the location of the pocket could help those who are sincere in wanting to learn the system but are encumbered by previous aiming methods.

Thanks Stan for making pool fun!
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Thank you for your comments!

There is a reason why real CTE is fun. Real CTE connects to pockets unlike any other system. Learning CTE is really the visual unravelling of how to really see CB OB relationships for ball pocketing......Plus it can be as deep a study as one wants it to be.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
I am in the early stages of a comprehensive super manual....almost book-like. I will use it in class for individuals as well as groups but unlike previous manuals this one will likely be available to anyone.

I have worked tirelessly and shared much over the past few years, only to still get slammed as Neil put it....anyway I am not going anywhere.
Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

You only think you've been slammed. Wait until PJ and the rest of his loyal followers have something written in front of them. They'll be dissecting each and every word for definition, content, meaning, to skew interpretations like never before.

I'm looking forward to the book but I'm sure they're even more excited and will beat me to the punch.:thumbup:
 
SpiderWebComm said:
You only think you've been slammed. Wait until PJ and the rest of his loyal followers have something written in front of them. They'll be dissecting each and every word for definition, content, meaning, to skew interpretations like never before.

I'm looking forward to the book but I'm sure they're even more excited and will beat me to the punch.:thumbup:
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Very true!

But I stand with a lot of hard-earned CTE knowledge....Hal's 10 years worth and my 10 years worth not to mention OUR and back and forth over the many years. I have no reservations about a presentation of written text of truth concerning CTE.

Pool is primarily visually driven. The visual trumps language when it comes to pool.

Is there a perfect set of words to describe visual intelligence and perception concerning CTE.....no and no....but fortunately the wording that has developed over the decades is sufficient enough to allow anyone to tap into real center to edge aiming and take it as far as their heart desires.

Stan Shuffett
 
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stan shuffett said:
Neil teed up your CTE profile perfectly. There is nothing that I could say that would augment in any way, anything that Neil wrote.



Stan Shuffett
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? In no way did you answer how every person sweep could equal a 1/2 pivot. How did you measure it? Don't go with your last crap, it is a visual system.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
robsnotes4u said:
So let's try this again to see if there is an answer.

What is the correlation between the mechanical pivot and the pro one sweep? How can every person's sweep equal a 1/2 tip pivot?

The answer can't be
1. because it works
2. i have answered it before, as I have asked many times with no answer
3. it is on the dvd or youtube videos as I have watched all
4. Do not go into watch so and so videos on how they shoot. Anyone who has years of experience, has knowledge and ability before the did CTE. I would bet you shot well before hand.

My answer would be the sweep, or anything works because you have subconsciously trained through repetition to see and feel the position.

Now can you give a thorough explanation?
Click to expand...

The Manual Pivot essentially, once you've found center cue-ball with the appropriate visuals, you land with your cue as if you're giving a half-tip of parallel english. After which, you turn your tip towards the center, It is the same every time.

A pro1 sweep is essentially learning to short-cut the manual method. Instead of landing parallel by the same amount each time, and turning to center by the same amount each time, you know how to land with your stick "sideways" by the correct amount.

It isn't that everyone's sweep will equal a 1/2 tip pivot, but more that everyone can learn to perform the sweep that equals a 1/2 tip pivot.

So to clarify:

Manual Pivot is always landing with a half-tip of parallel English, and turning your tip into center.

A sweep is memorizing the offset that happens every time you followed the steps of a manual pivot, and learning by practice to land on that offset.
 
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tonythetiger583 said:
The Manual Pivot essentially, once you've found center cue-ball with the appropriate visuals, you land with your cue as if you're giving a half-tip of parallel english. After which, you turn your tip towards the center, It is the same every time.

A pro1 sweep is essentially learning to short-cut the manual method. Instead of landing parallel by the same amount each time, and turning to center by the same amount each time, you know how to land with your stick "sideways" by the correct amount.

It isn't that everyone's sweep will equal a 1/2 tip pivot, but more that everyone can learn to perform the sweep that equals a 1/2 tip pivot.

So to clarify:

Manual Pivot is always landing with a half-tip of parallel English, and turning your tip into center.

A sweep is memorizing the offset that happens every time you followed the steps of a manual pivot, and learning by practice to land on that offset.
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Thanks Tony,

I understand that the manual pivot is not expressed in terms of bridge length, tip width or a firmly fixed pivot point, but for interests sake, bridging 12 inches from CCB with a 12.5mm tip equates to about 1.2 degrees movement away from the line the cue parallel aligns to.

1.2 degrees equates to about 1/2 ball width variation over 5 foot of travel for the CB. Another way to think of it is approx 1/4 inch of variation per foot of CB travel.

It appears this angle difference from the visual, achieved by pivot, becomes learned such that the air sweep reflects the same turn.

Colin
 
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Colin Colenso said:
Thanks Tony,

I understand that the manual pivot is not expressed in terms of bridge length, tip width or a firmly fixed pivot point, but for interests sake, bridging 12 inches from CCB with a 12.5mm tip equates to about 0.02 degrees movement away from the line the cue parallel aligns to.

0.02 degrees equates to about 1/2 ball width variation over 5 foot of travel for the CB. Another way to think of it is approx 1/4 inch of variation per foot of CB travel.

It appears this angle difference from the visual, achieved by pivot, becomes learned such that the air sweep reflects the same turn.

Colin
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Not hardly, we have been here before.....each CB OB relationship is unique......that is how the 15 and 30 can make a zillion shots.

Stan Shuffett
 
Colin Colenso said:
Thanks Tony,

I understand that the manual pivot is not expressed in terms of bridge length, tip width or a firmly fixed pivot point, but for interests sake, bridging 12 inches from CCB with a 12.5mm tip equates to about 0.02 degrees movement away from the line the cue parallel aligns to.

0.02 degrees equates to about 1/2 ball width variation over 5 foot of travel for the CB. Another way to think of it is approx 1/4 inch of variation per foot of CB travel.

It appears this angle difference from the visual, achieved by pivot, becomes learned such that the air sweep reflects the same turn.

Colin
Click to expand...
In case it matters, I think everything you say is right except it's about 1.17 degrees rather than 0.02.

pj
chgo
 
stan shuffett said:
Not hardly, we have been here before.....each CB OB relationship is unique......that is how the 15 and 30 can make a zillion shots.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...
What then can be said, in objective terms, regarding the change in line between the visual to fixed CB and the eventual aim line post pivot?

Colin
 
Colin Colenso said:
What then can be said, in objective terms, regarding the change in line between the visual to fixed CB and the eventual aim line post pivot?

Colin
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You should be studying perception not math. I do not think you can offer mathematics to explain CTE at this point.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
You should be studying perception not math. I do not think you can offer mathematics to explain CTE at this point.

Stan Shuffett
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True, math can't explain it.

As a matter of interest, for some, given my estimation of the pivot angle, around 1.2 degrees, that happens to be pretty close to the squirt angle for an average cue.

That would suggest that the pre-pivot alignment, parallel to the visual is close to the equivalent to aligning the shot with 1/2 tip of side english (not necessarily taking into account throw effects).

This may assist those trying to reverse engineer the perception of the visual.

Colin
 
Colin Colenso said:
True, math can't explain it.

As a matter of interest, for some, given my estimation of the pivot angle, around 1.2 degrees, that happens to be pretty close to the squirt angle for an average cue.

That would suggest that the pre-pivot alignment, parallel to the visual is close to the equivalent to aligning the shot with 1/2 tip of side english (not necessarily taking into account throw effects).

This may assist those trying to reverse engineer the perception of the visual.

Colin
Click to expand...

I would see this better in diagram form.....not necessary, though. I think I get you. I doubt that perception will be reverse engineered, but one day......the info on what is going on with the special perceptions of CTE on 2x1 will be known. Not sure if I will live to see it.....doubtful.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
I would see this better in diagram form.....not necessary, though. I think I get you. I doubt that perception will be reverse engineered, but one day......the info on what is going on with the special perceptions of CTE on 2x1 will be known. Not sure if I will live to see it.....doubtful.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

It's really just another way of understanding what you already know regarding being able to pivot back from final alignment to execute BHE when required. Though, the exactness of such will depend on the cue's pivot point and throw effects.

So if I aligned a shot for 1/2 tip of inside english (right to left cut, requiring a left to right pivot) from in the stance, and looked at the CTE ETA lines, perhaps I'd be pretty close to the visual perception that one learns to see.

Colin
 
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