Why pool players can't aim ;)

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Ok, I'm going to sound like one of those idiotic snooker trolls in this thread, but I don't care. Also I'm not a qualified instructor or even a fantastic player but here I go, for what it's worth.

The first thing ever taught to me by a coach was this: You don't aim with your head, you aim with your feet. I know some pool coaches say the same, but I think this still is the biggest neglected area of all of pool aiming. I have to admit that my footwork at the time was all over the place and pathetic, even if I had had a couple of 50 breaks in snooker. Try to shuffle your feet in incredibly small increments from side to side. I'd be surprised if you didn't see that this relates to your aim...

The reason is simple: Pool has too many tap-ins. I don't mean to say that pool is easy (far from it) but the fact is that most pool shots don't really need a lot of aiming to be pocketed. You just lean across the table and whack it in, no problem. The problem arises when your game advances and you need extreme precision...By trial and error you get to a place where your footwork is right most of the time, but still some shots give you trouble (speaking from experience here). Had the footwork been accurate and consistent from the start, these "holes" in the fundamentals would not exist.

On the snooker table most shots require at least some attention and this approach does not work. Because of the size of the table and tiny pockets, walking into the shot is preferred for many more, if not nearly all shots. Excluding those near the rail where you have to lean over, still you need your body/shoulder and hip aligned correctly to be successful even here. There is even a technique for stepping into these shots.
The reason why the snooker pros look so casual is that they have spent a lot of time on these things until they became second nature (so I'm told anyway).

I see a lot of focus on the head and the stick, the bridgehand and the cuehand here, yet without the proper footwork you will be inconsistent. Pivoting etc can actually aggrevate this,by completely removing the feet from the equation and starting from an offset that is not intuitive. The SEE system is the only system I've ever seen to take the footwork seriously and integrate it into the aiming process in a simple and organic way. I still think there is room for improvement.

I instantly see a relaxing of fundamentals going from snooker to pool, and I don't think I'm the only one. Many pool players neglect their footwork, because it is a boring chore to walk into 2 foot tap ins, and the reward of doing this is not instantaneous. In fact you have to know what to look for to even see if you are doing it right... If there ever was a magic ticket and a potential gold mine for aiming gurus, I think making a footwork system would be it.

End of rant
 
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Ok, I'm going to sound like one of those idiotic snooker trolls in this thread, but I don't care. Also I'm not a qualified instructor or even a fantastic player but here I go, for what it's worth.

The first thing ever taught to me by a coach was this: You don't aim with your head, you aim with your feet. I know some pool coaches say the same, but I think this still is the biggest neglected area of all of pool aiming. I have to admit that my footwork at the time was all over the place and pathetic, even if I had had a couple of 50 breaks in snooker. Try to shuffle your feet in incredibly small increments from side to side. I'd be surprised if you didn't see that this relates to your aim...

The reason is simple: Pool has too many tap-ins. I don't mean to say that pool is easy (far from it) but the fact is that most pool shots don't really need a lot of aiming to be pocketed. You just lean across the table and whack it in, no problem. The problem arises when your game advances and you need extreme precision...By trial and error you get to a place where your footwork is right most of the time, but still some shots give you trouble (speaking from experience here). Had the footwork been accurate and consistent from the start, these "holes" in the fundamentals would not exist.

On the snooker table most shots require at least some attention and this approach does not work. Because of the size of the table and tiny pockets, walking into the shot is preferred for many more, if not nearly all shots. Excluding those near the rail where you have to lean over, still you need your body/shoulder and hip aligned correctly to be successful even here. There is even a technique for stepping into these shots.
The reason why the snooker pros look so casual is that they have spent a lot of time on these things until they became second nature (so I'm told anyway).

I see a lot of focus on the head and the stick, the bridgehand and the cuehand here, yet without the proper footwork you will be inconsistent. Pivoting etc can actually aggrevate this,by completely removing the feet from the equation and starting from an offset that is not intuitive. The SEE system is the only system I've ever seen to take the footwork seriously and integrate it into the aiming process in a simple and organic way. I still think there is room for improvement.

I instantly see a relaxing of fundamentals going from snooker to pool, and I don't think I'm the only one. Many pool players neglect their footwork, because it is a boring chore to walk into 2 foot tap ins, and the reward of doing this is not instantaneous. In fact you have to know what to look for to even see if you are doing it right... If there ever was a magic ticket and a potential gold mine for aiming gurus, I think making a footwork system would be it.

End of rant

Good post !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree 100%
 
Certainly snooker demands strong fundamentals.

Back when I was serious about English 8 Ball, I used to do 50% of my practice on a snooker table, just doing drills, to refine my stance and alignment.

I think one of the strengths of CTE, is that the users go through a pre-aligment routine at back of stance, and while it may take some practice to adjust to the pivot, it may provide an advantageous foundation for foot positioning to the methods most pool players employ, which usually does not focus much on alignment from back in the stance.

Colin
 
I've stressed this before...aiming isn't difficult. Everyone can see where the CB needs to be to pot a ball. The problem is getting their body aligned to make it happen. Firstly it starts with the feet and figuring out how to align the feet as close to the same every shot with regards to the line of aim you've picked out. This gives your hips and shoulders the same angle to each and every line of aim for a shot which then means you only have to master getting down in a way that is 100% repeatable and gets the stick on line.

There are times on snooker that you cant get down into the stance, you're stretching or bridging over balls but you can still adjust the feet to align the hips at the normal angle for you which then makes the process ever so simple again.

I've said it all along, alignment is up there as the most crucial part in a pool players arsenal and needs to be torn apart to know why each body part is placed where it is so you can practice each section to make it second nature.

Interesting topic :-)
 
Interesting Subject

I've read the posts and I couldnt agree more. Something near and dear to my heart actually and I am due to work on my game some now that I may have a bit more time.

I think the crux of learning proper aim is waiting for all of the visual information to get inside the head. I see this in playing One Pocket which makes one slow down. If you aren't set up right your chances of the pot and resulting perfect position aren't as good. That is where a standard aiming process could help keep you aligned from the start. You aren't shooting a pin sized contact point into the heart of the pocket. You are sending, " in the US" a 21/4 in. ball in there. Sure if you can see the contact point from above...to the center of the pocket, that's nearly all you have to have in order to make the shot but if you take your time your depth perception shows you so much more and you can feel what you can do to manipulate the aiming line and send the ball the proper way it should be sent to get shape and that might not be to the center of the pocket.

What better alignment could be had than if imagining a ball sitting in the pocket where you intended to play the shot? knowing what you have to do to the ball in order to get it there?

When you bend over and slap balls in and run around the table you lose a lot of the visual information because it never gets to rest in your mind. If the table isn't crowded perhaps you don't need all the time but there is so much lost.

When I am missing very little I am in all kinds of positions but my feet feel good my upper body alignment is free to stroke and it starts at the feet but is built around your initial aiming the initial information seen by your eye. The changes in the body come from adjustments that are made in the brain. I'm sure its fastly assimilated information but there is a process and when the eye beholds a spherical object its not the easiest information it see to process because you cant see through the ball to the other side and depth perception becomes extremely important.

If you can overload a computer processor with information and slow it down, what makes you think your processor doesn't need the proper time to assimilate at least until you have seen the situation a time or two so it won't take you as much time, next time?

I think it would do a person a lot of good to get to a table and take the time to let all of the visual information come in before you let go of the cue ball because I think few of us rarely do that. In so doing you might discover your misalignment of your feet and it would give you a reason to reset, rediscover a better way to set up and possibly you might be able to repeat it later on.

Last night I played with a guy who I played a couple of years ago and he is a big stroker and just pounded balls that needed a soft touch. He didn't trust his aiming mechanism at all and felt he needed to get a good clean stroke. I helped him with his target, slowed him down and by the time I left he was much better already.
 
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I think there's a lot to be learned about fundamentals from the snooker trolls, but the language barrier is a problem. If only you guys would learn to speak proper American like everybody else...

pj <- cor, wat a bloody wanker
chgo
 
I think there's a lot to be learned about fundamentals from the snooker trolls, but the language barrier is a problem. If only you guys would learn to speak proper American like everybody else...

pj <- cor, wat a bloody wanker
chgo

It ain't all that hard. They use the same words as we do, only the meanings are different.

http://www.effingpot.com

Worth checking out if only for the slang.
 
Ok,
..........................
I see a lot of focus on the head and the stick, the bridgehand and the cuehand here, yet without the proper footwork you will be inconsistent. Pivoting etc can actually aggrevate this,by completely removing the feet from the equation and starting from an offset that is not intuitive. The SEE system is the only system I've ever seen to take the footwork seriously and integrate it into the aiming process in a simple and organic way. I still think there is room for improvement.

I instantly see a relaxing of fundamentals going from snooker to pool, and I don't think I'm the only one. Many pool players neglect their footwork, because it is a boring chore to walk into 2 foot tap ins, and the reward of doing this is not instantaneous. In fact you have to know what to look for to even see if you are doing it right... If there ever was a magic ticket and a potential gold mine for aiming gurus, I think making a footwork system would be it.

End of rant

While I agree that footwork is important, and also agree that it isn't addressed enough, I disagree with what you stated about pivoting aiming systems. If your statement were true, then you should never apply any english at all. And, the mere fact that you made that statement shows that while you do understand that footwork is important, you don't understand what makes that true.
 
Ok, I'm going to sound like one of those idiotic snooker trolls in this thread, but I don't care. Also I'm not a qualified instructor or even a fantastic player but here I go, for what it's worth.

The first thing ever taught to me by a coach was this: You don't aim with your head, you aim with your feet. I know some pool coaches say the same, but I think this still is the biggest neglected area of all of pool aiming. I have to admit that my footwork at the time was all over the place and pathetic, even if I had had a couple of 50 breaks in snooker. Try to shuffle your feet in incredibly small increments from side to side. I'd be surprised if you didn't see that this relates to your aim...

The reason is simple: Pool has too many tap-ins. I don't mean to say that pool is easy (far from it) but the fact is that most pool shots don't really need a lot of aiming to be pocketed. You just lean across the table and whack it in, no problem. The problem arises when your game advances and you need extreme precision...By trial and error you get to a place where your footwork is right most of the time, but still some shots give you trouble (speaking from experience here). Had the footwork been accurate and consistent from the start, these "holes" in the fundamentals would not exist.

On the snooker table most shots require at least some attention and this approach does not work. Because of the size of the table and tiny pockets, walking into the shot is preferred for many more, if not nearly all shots. Excluding those near the rail where you have to lean over, still you need your body/shoulder and hip aligned correctly to be successful even here. There is even a technique for stepping into these shots.
The reason why the snooker pros look so casual is that they have spent a lot of time on these things until they became second nature (so I'm told anyway).

I see a lot of focus on the head and the stick, the bridgehand and the cuehand here, yet without the proper footwork you will be inconsistent. Pivoting etc can actually aggrevate this,by completely removing the feet from the equation and starting from an offset that is not intuitive. The SEE system is the only system I've ever seen to take the footwork seriously and integrate it into the aiming process in a simple and organic way. I still think there is room for improvement.

I instantly see a relaxing of fundamentals going from snooker to pool, and I don't think I'm the only one. Many pool players neglect their footwork, because it is a boring chore to walk into 2 foot tap ins, and the reward of doing this is not instantaneous. In fact you have to know what to look for to even see if you are doing it right... If there ever was a magic ticket and a potential gold mine for aiming gurus, I think making a footwork system would be it.

End of rant

I bet it's the chalk.
Snooker players have the chalk in their pockets. Pool players put in on the table. It disrupts the entire routine, because you have to go one step forward. Your feet were already positioned correctly, but because of the chalk you had to leave that position. The natural thing to do, is to just stay there and lean forward into the shot. Typical pool stance.
 
While I agree that footwork is important, and also agree that it isn't addressed enough, I disagree with what you stated about pivoting aiming systems. If your statement were true, then you should never apply any english at all. And, the mere fact that you made that statement shows that while you do understand that footwork is important, you don't understand what makes that true.
so............please tell me what makes it true?
 
I bet it's the chalk.
Snooker players have the chalk in their pockets. Pool players put in on the table. It disrupts the entire routine, because you have to go one step forward. Your feet were already positioned correctly, but because of the chalk you had to leave that position. The natural thing to do, is to just stay there and lean forward into the shot. Typical pool stance.
Snooker players would leave the chalk on the table if they could. But you soon learn its a long walk around the other side of the table if you forget it :-)
 
so............please tell me what makes it true?

Sorry, not on here. People complain about one paragraph being too much to read. Too fully explain it, would take a chapter in a book. But, you can read about it in Mark Wilsons book. He goes into his ideas on it pretty extensively there. You can also search through the snooker videos and will eventually come across some good tidbits about it.
 
Ok, I'm going to sound like one of those idiotic snooker trolls in this thread, but I don't care. Also I'm not a qualified instructor or even a fantastic player but here I go, for what it's worth.

The first thing ever taught to me by a coach was this: You don't aim with your head, you aim with your feet. I know some pool coaches say the same, but I think this still is the biggest neglected area of all of pool aiming. I have to admit that my footwork at the time was all over the place and pathetic, even if I had had a couple of 50 breaks in snooker. Try to shuffle your feet in incredibly small increments from side to side. I'd be surprised if you didn't see that this relates to your aim...

The reason is simple: Pool has too many tap-ins. I don't mean to say that pool is easy (far from it) but the fact is that most pool shots don't really need a lot of aiming to be pocketed. You just lean across the table and whack it in, no problem. The problem arises when your game advances and you need extreme precision...By trial and error you get to a place where your footwork is right most of the time, but still some shots give you trouble (speaking from experience here). Had the footwork been accurate and consistent from the start, these "holes" in the fundamentals would not exist.

On the snooker table most shots require at least some attention and this approach does not work. Because of the size of the table and tiny pockets, walking into the shot is preferred for many more, if not nearly all shots. Excluding those near the rail where you have to lean over, still you need your body/shoulder and hip aligned correctly to be successful even here. There is even a technique for stepping into these shots.
The reason why the snooker pros look so casual is that they have spent a lot of time on these things until they became second nature (so I'm told anyway).

I see a lot of focus on the head and the stick, the bridgehand and the cuehand here, yet without the proper footwork you will be inconsistent. Pivoting etc can actually aggrevate this,by completely removing the feet from the equation and starting from an offset that is not intuitive. The SEE system is the only system I've ever seen to take the footwork seriously and integrate it into the aiming process in a simple and organic way. I still think there is room for improvement.

I instantly see a relaxing of fundamentals going from snooker to pool, and I don't think I'm the only one. Many pool players neglect their footwork, because it is a boring chore to walk into 2 foot tap ins, and the reward of doing this is not instantaneous. In fact you have to know what to look for to even see if you are doing it right... If there ever was a magic ticket and a potential gold mine for aiming gurus, I think making a footwork system would be it.

End of rant

Idiotic snooker trolls? What the frig are you on about man? :confused:
 
Snooker players would leave the chalk on the table if they could. But you soon learn its a long walk around the other side of the table if you forget it :-)

There was a thai? player in the welsh open who left his chalk on the table after every shot. I have never seen anyone do that before.
 
I've stressed this before...aiming isn't difficult. Everyone can see where the CB needs to be to pot a ball. The problem is getting their body aligned to make it happen. ......

Will someone make and try to sell an alignment DVD ?
 
Actually, I think you have the "foot work" proposition backwards. It isn't the foot work that determines the accuracy of the stroke but rather the stance that creates the precision.

The foot work is simply a byproduct of knowing where you want to plant your stance and stepping into the shot line correctly so that the stance is locked into the aim line.

I know many players who can see the shot and step into the shot line but because they have a poor stance, they never deliver the stroke with pin point accurately.
 
So true

Actually, I think you have the "foot work" proposition backwards. It isn't the foot work that determines the accuracy of the stroke but rather the stance that creates the precision.

The foot work is simply a byproduct of knowing where you want to plant your stance and stepping into the shot line correctly so that the stance is locked into the aim line.

I know many players who can see the shot and step into the shot line but because they have a poor stance, they never deliver the stroke with pin point accurately.

That is absolutely true and has at a time been my nemesis.
 
I think most aiming systems are also "alignment systems" - some more than others.

pj
chgo

I was kidding about an alignment DVD.

But, I do agree with Pidge that knowing where the CB needs to be is easy and finding good alignment should get more attention.

I think of alignment being more a part of stance than aiming, but I believe it's all connected since head position is part of stance and you aim with your eyes.

Foot angle affects hip angle which affects shoulder angle which affects arm position. I believe you can align the various body parts into a particular position that will encourage a straight stroke. The wrist, elbow and arm prefer to hinge and move in certain directions. Tricky thing is different body types, flexibility and posture means everyone's ideal body part stance/position is different.
 
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