Testing a New Cue

pocket

pocket

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The thread about what cue is best for 9ball has got me thinking.

Is there a good set of shots and results that one could use to test how a cue hits, or is it pretty much 'feel'?

Bob Jewett had this to say (guess I'm dumb as dirt):

Bob Jewett said:
Next, you need to figure out some test shots. Most players have no idea about how to test a new cue. They are stupid as stumps and dumb as the dirt they're stuck in. ...

Here's a test shot. With the cue ball behind the line, put an object ball half way to a far corner pocket for a straight shot. Draw the cue ball straight back to within a few inches of the end rail. If that's easy, move the object ball farther away.

PS Bob, there are vastly superior methods of measuring my level of stupidity other than simple lack of experience.

Second shot for side spin: Put the cue ball on the head spot. Put the object ball frozen to the middle of the foot rail. Cut it in with inside english.
Click to expand...

Any other suggestions on how to go about finding the right cue? I have a cue that I play with, and honestly it plays fine for me. It is fairly plain jane, again fine, but I have thought about a cue with points and perhaps a fairly conservative older style. However, I want it to be a good playing cue and would be nice to have a procedure to determine that for me.

That said, how the heck do you even get a chance to 'test' a cue?
 
pocket said:
... (guess I'm dumb as dirt):
Click to expand...
But you're trying to do something about it.

Any other suggestions on how to go about finding the right cue? I have a cue that I play with, and honestly it plays fine for me. It is fairly plain jane, again fine, but I have thought about a cue with points and perhaps a fairly conservative older style. However, I want it to be a good playing cue and would be nice to have a procedure to determine that for me.

That said, how the heck do you even get a chance to 'test' a cue?
Click to expand...
Last question first. Recently I noticed a site that offered a 30-day trial on new cues. Another way is to buy used from a local player/dealer. As one time there was a store in Oregon called "Billiards and Bagels" (IIRC) that had a few hundred cues that you could try to your heart's content. Sadly, they are closed.

If you are just getting a shaft from one of the specialty shaft companies, you can probably try a shaft at a show or on a friend's cue and hope that the one you buy is similar.

Finally, if you get a good deal on a cue without trying it, and it doesn't work for you, you may be able to sell it for as much as you paid or maybe even make a profit. But do not accept a cue that doesn't work for you just because you have money invested in it.

As for the shots to use in the testing, besides the draw shot and the spin shot mentioned above, try a range of finesse shots and power shots. Unfortuately, except for squirt, something like 80% of how a shaft hits the ball is in the tip (assuming the shaft/joint/butt are reasonably solid). That means that you might reject a stick that would be fine with a different tip, or be disappointed when the tip is finally replaced with something that doesn't work well.

Other things to think about in general are the wrap/handle (Physically, what do you want the wrap to do to help your shots?), where you want the balance to be (For me it's hard to get easy power with a cue that is not balanced like I'm used to.), and the length. On the last point, it seems to me that if players are adding a 2-inch extension to the joint for all shots, they really should just get a longer cue.
 
pocket said:
The thread about what cue is best for 9ball has got me thinking.

Is there a good set of shots and results that one could use to test how a cue hits, or is it pretty much 'feel'?

Bob Jewett had this to say (guess I'm dumb as dirt):



Any other suggestions on how to go about finding the right cue? I have a cue that I play with, and honestly it plays fine for me. It is fairly plain jane, again fine, but I have thought about a cue with points and perhaps a fairly conservative older style. However, I want it to be a good playing cue and would be nice to have a procedure to determine that for me.

That said, how the heck do you even get a chance to 'test' a cue?
Click to expand...

It is 100% impossible to find the "right" cue because what if one or 10 or 100 of the other 3,000,000 you have not tried are more right for you?

You CAN find a cue you like to play with though.

As far as really testing a cue I am guessing you mean like how they test shafts to find out how they deflect, use a robot and measure. Humans have too many variables to really notice things or be consistent enough to say that A is better than B unless there is a pretty big difference. If you take maybe 20 shots with one cue and 20 in another, probably 1/4 of the shots will be 20-30% different in speed or stroke and another 1/4 will have some aiming or hand movement differences.
 
Let's keep this short, simple, and sweet. Buy yourself a Schon cue, with a Predator shaft, tipped with an UltraSkin soft, or medium. It'll last you, and out play you, for the rest of your life. :)
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Let's keep this short, simple, and sweet. Buy yourself a Schon cue, with a Predator shaft, tipped with an UltraSkin soft, or medium. It'll last you, and out play you, for the rest of your life. :)
Click to expand...

I sort of have a crush on the Lucasi LZE29 right now, but that is purely on style criteria.
 
hang-the-9 said:
As far as really testing a cue I am guessing you mean like how they test shafts to find out how they deflect...
Click to expand...

No I was talking about what Bob said above. You can't just walk in to a dealer and pick up ten cues and try them to find the best fit. Online even less so.

Thanks for the input though.
 
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett:

"...Second shot for side spin: Put the cue ball on the head spot. Put the object ball frozen to the middle of the foot rail. Cut it in with inside English."

____________________

For ME, I think "this" shot is easier with a non-LD shaft. I shoot this shot several times when I am practicing and I can do it a lot more consistently with a regular maple shaft than I can with my LD shafts.

I think the reason for this is because of the "angle of attack" of the cue ball. Or "pocket", if you will.

When you shoot a shot like this with a non-LD shaft, the ball squirts out to the side and then, hopefully, comes "back into the pocket" at the end, sort of like when a person throws a bowling ball with a "hook". If you hit the cue ball correctly, when it hits the "pocket", it pushes the object ball down the rail. The momentum of the cue ball is helped by the angle and the spin.

I can hit the same shot with my non-LD and even though I hit the "same" spot on the object ball, the "angle" isn't as sharp coming into the "pocket" and doesn't provide the extra "oomph" at the end.

Sort of like a "straight ball" strike, instead of a "hooking" strike. They both work, but the "hook" seems to "carry" more often.

This shot requires that you "trust" your cue, because you are actually aiming to miss the ball and relying on the "hook" at the end to come through for you.

Aloha.
 
I think that the cue ball is doing exactly the same thing if you put the object ball in regardless of the type of shaft. What changes is which direction the stick is pointed. I think the amount of swerve will be nearly identical if you use the same elevation and tip offset.

I have not much trouble making this test shot with low squirt and high squirt shafts with a little adjustment, and I often demo it with a high-squirt shaft so students can see that you may have to aim on the wrong side of the ball for some spin shots. I'd rather aim closer to where I'm going to hit, but then I've been using a low-squirt shaft since about 1980.

HawaiianEye said:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett:

"...Second shot for side spin: Put the cue ball on the head spot. Put the object ball frozen to the middle of the foot rail. Cut it in with inside English."

____________________

For ME, I think "this" shot is easier with a non-LD shaft. I shoot this shot several times when I am practicing and I can do it a lot more consistently with a regular maple shaft than I can with my LD shafts.

I think the reason for this is because of the "angle of attack" of the cue ball. Or "pocket", if you will.

When you shoot a shot like this with a non-LD shaft, the ball squirts out to the side and then, hopefully, comes "back into the pocket" at the end, sort of like when a person throws a bowling ball with a "hook". If you hit the cue ball correctly, when it hits the "pocket", it pushes the object ball down the rail. The momentum of the cue ball is helped by the angle and the spin.

I can hit the same shot with my non-LD and even though I hit the "same" spot on the object ball, the "angle" isn't as sharp coming into the "pocket" and doesn't provide the extra "oomph" at the end.

Sort of like a "straight ball" strike, instead of a "hooking" strike. They both work, but the "hook" seems to "carry" more often.

This shot requires that you "trust" your cue, because you are actually aiming to miss the ball and relying on the "hook" at the end to come through for you.

Aloha.
Click to expand...
 
I have never gotten into the predator type after market shafts. For me, the test shots I do with a cue, give me a idea of what cue feels like, how it may spin the ball. I shoot some straight in shots, just to see if anything odd happens. I shoot spin shots, of all varieties, to see if I like what the cue does and how it feels.

Most cues, even ones from the same makers, play a bit differently from cue to cue. I will say that most joss and schon cues seem to play very very close to each other. Though I do like the older shafts more than the newer shafts, probably the difference in tapers that were used between now and then.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think that the cue ball is doing exactly the same thing if you put the object ball in regardless of the type of shaft. What changes is which direction the stick is pointed. I think the amount of swerve will be nearly identical if you use the same elevation and tip offset.

I have not much trouble making this test shot with low squirt and high squirt shafts with a little adjustment, and I often demo it with a high-squirt shaft so students can see that you may have to aim on the wrong side of the ball for some spin shots. I'd rather aim closer to where I'm going to hit, but then I've been using a low-squirt shaft since about 1980.
Click to expand...

If you want to see the "difference", try putting the object ball in the same place, but put the cue ball halfway between the center spot and the side rail...instead of in the middle of the table on the spot.

Then try to cut the ball into the opposite corner from the side you moved the cue ball to...the BACKWARDS corner.

I can make it quite often with my regular shaft, but it is a hell of a lot harder with my LDs.
 
From my small test group of cues, it all comes down to what "feels" best. Take it for what you will, but it is true. My highest dollar cue luckily plays as well as any I've played with, but Than again it isn't my daily player. My daily player has a very similar shaft and weight made by the same builder. I've shot with bar cues I've wanted to take home and have. Some "wood is just good".
 
HawaiianEye said:
... I can make it quite often with my regular shaft, but it is a hell of a lot harder with my LDs.
Click to expand...
I find that shot easier with an LD shaft because that's what I've been playing with for 35 years.

If you think about the geometry for a while, I think you may come to a different conclusion.
 
Ld

Bob Jewett said:
I find that shot easier with an LD shaft because that's what I've been playing with for 35 years.

If you think about the geometry for a while, I think you may come to a different conclusion.
Click to expand...

Every shaft allows for a different amount of deflection, it's purely what your mind can wrap around and use to its advantage. A beginner may benefit from a LD shaft because they can "see" the shot better, but in reality it makes no difference to me once your mind adjusts for the deflection a specific shaft plays with. Personally I'd rather have the feel of a true maple shaft than a "LD" laminated shaft. I am not saying LD shafts cannot play good, I tried a OB for a bit and my business partner swears by a Jacoby Hybrid, but for me I prefer the feel of my maple, and I'm looking forward to trying the ash on its way.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I find that shot easier with an LD shaft because that's what I've been playing with for 35 years.

If you think about the geometry for a while, I think you may come to a different conclusion.
Click to expand...

Maybe I just shoot better crooked than I do straight. I get lucky a lot. :) Aloha.
 
When I am trying out a new cue or looking to purchase the first thing I check is if its is aesthetically pleasing to me. If I dont like the way it looks, i would most probably not purchase it regardless of how well it plays.

Next is the balance. If I dont like the balance I will not purchase it even if I love how it looks

Then I will try some shots with it. I will hit soft and I will hit hard. As long as I can feel something when I shoot ( not dead or like shooting at air) I am good to go. I am not particular about any hit because I believe that is subjective and as long as you are feeling something when you shoot, the hit can be adjusted by installing different kinds / brands of tip

Then i will shoot some shots with english. i will shoot shots that I usually employ in my pattern play and see how big the aiming adjustment would be from what I am used to. ( too big of a difference and i will not proceed with the purchase). In my experience, the most difference would be in medium/hard inside follow shots , slow outside shots and cut shots with english. If i can live with the difference, then Im good to go.

I have been using LD shafts for almost 2 years and I find that switching from brand A to brand B LD shaft is easier than brand A to brand B regular shaft.
Also, I am not in the habit of turning down my shafts or retapering so usually, If I dont like the shaft taper or diameter it would be a no go for me.

Finally, this is also why I seldom commission a custom cue. Now, I am more inclined to purchase from the secondary market as I prefer to be able to shoot with the cue before making my purchase
The above is my opinion on the matter. Good luck!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
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What Cross stated earlier pretty much summs up my cue testing too :)

I had the luxury of getting to test a few cues with my local pool dealer. I went there to buy a cheap break/jump and a new player. Had the opportunity to test out about 6 of them, one of wich really stood up for me, the Players wich I still play with. Fury was close too, but didn't jump as easy for a novice like me.
For the player department the testing part and choosing the "right" cue for me was a bit more challenging. Purely based on looks I ended up testing a Lucasi with leather wrap, Uni-Loc and a few different Mezz cues. Started out with the Lucasi and I must say, I just love the way that cue felt. Great balance, awesome feel and feedback. A lot like my old HXT to play with english, it was easy to adapt to. The real drawback with it was drawing the cue ball. It jumped so easily and felt a bit insecure to play with draw, that I moved on to Mezz cues. I started out with a plain black one, AXI-K if I remember correctly. It played well for me, a bit hard for what I am used to, but the overall "good cue" feel was there. Started out with short, easy cut shots to get a feel of balance and weight, added a bit of spin to see how it played for me. The thing that really got me sold on the Mezz was how easy it was to play extremely long stop shots with.
I did not however like looks of it, pure black felt a bit boring, and it showed fingerprints on it very badly. So I looked through the list of AXI's and ended up with the 601. Played with it for a while, and the dealer also allowed me to try out 2 WX700 shafts out just in case there was any feel difference. Took the shaft that came with the 601 originally.
The 604 would have been more "me" on the looks, but the price was a bit high, and estimated delivery time 3-4 weeks. Happy with my choice anyway, it is a nice cue with traditional looks, me likes as they say :)

Sometimes I wonder wich cue I would have ended up with if the Lucasi had a better tip on it... Just later on realized that it had an Everest tip, wich might have been the reason for difficulties when drawing with it... I guess we'll never know :rolleyes:
 
Kimmo H. said:
...Purely based on looks I ended up testing a Lucasi with leather wrap, Uni-Loc and a few different Mezz cues. Started out with the Lucasi and I must say, I just love the way that cue felt. Great balance, awesome feel and feedback.
... So I looked through the list of AXI's and ended up with the 601. Played with it for a while, and the dealer also allowed me to try out 2 WX700 shafts out just in case there was any feel difference. Took the shaft that came with the 601 originally.
The 604 would have been more "me" on the looks, but the price was a bit high, and estimated delivery time 3-4 weeks. Happy with my choice anyway, it is a nice cue with traditional looks, me likes as they say :)
...Sometimes I wonder wich cue I would have ended up with if the Lucasi had a better tip on it... Just later on realized that it had an Everest tip, wich might have been the reason for difficulties when drawing with it... I guess we'll never know :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I've also been told to change the tip on the Lucasi as soon as I buy it. Seems like we have similar taste in design, both the 601 and 604 cue's are very nice looking.

Thanks again for the input.
 
I appreciate all the thoughtful responses. Learned some from this thread.

Thanks AZB.
 
This past weekend, I let a friend of mine hit some shots with my cue. I suggested that he shoot 5 shots with my cue and 5 shots with his cue, back and forth a few times one each shot.

We set up several shots where only stun was required, sometimes straight in, sometimes a slight cut, shooting them over and over. Other shots demanded inside or outside English, while other shots demanded follow or draw or a combination of side and draw or side and follow.

To me this is how you test a cue. Compare it against other cues. My friend who is a talented amateur commented afterwards, that my cue was very easily, superior to his cue on certain shots, equal on others. Some shots are just easier to make, others utilizing side spin, not so much so. So in your quest, you should make sure that you test your cue with side spin coupled with follow or draw because these are the most difficult shots and your findings may tell you a lot about the cue and your own ability to play well. Don't forget to test close up and far away shots.

JoeyA
 
I hear what you are saying and I can make the shot with either shaft but I like a smaller hook that comes with an LD shaft because I can be more consistent in pocketing the object ball with a smaller margin of error, but that's just me.
JoeyA

HawaiianEye said:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett:

"...Second shot for side spin: Put the cue ball on the head spot. Put the object ball frozen to the middle of the foot rail. Cut it in with inside English."

____________________

For ME, I think "this" shot is easier with a non-LD shaft. I shoot this shot several times when I am practicing and I can do it a lot more consistently with a regular maple shaft than I can with my LD shafts.

I think the reason for this is because of the "angle of attack" of the cue ball. Or "pocket", if you will.

When you shoot a shot like this with a non-LD shaft, the ball squirts out to the side and then, hopefully, comes "back into the pocket" at the end, sort of like when a person throws a bowling ball with a "hook". If you hit the cue ball correctly, when it hits the "pocket", it pushes the object ball down the rail. The momentum of the cue ball is helped by the angle and the spin.

I can hit the same shot with my non-LD and even though I hit the "same" spot on the object ball, the "angle" isn't as sharp coming into the "pocket" and doesn't provide the extra "oomph" at the end.

Sort of like a "straight ball" strike, instead of a "hooking" strike. They both work, but the "hook" seems to "carry" more often.

This shot requires that you "trust" your cue, because you are actually aiming to miss the ball and relying on the "hook" at the end to come through for you.

Aloha.
Click to expand...
 
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