Hard hit?

The Captain

The Captain

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Of course I know shaft type and tip type make a big difference... But as far as ferrules go... Ivory capped or uncapped? Threaded or unthreaded? I'm having a stick made and am specifically have no man made materials anywhere except the joint pin and epoxies, etc... So please none of the xyz hits harder than ivory, etc.... Thank you
 
Ferrule

Threaded and capped ferrule. Strongest construction and firmest, best hit with feedback. Lots of people will tell you that you can't tell a difference - but I can. Phenolic bumper will also help.
 
blackboarowner said:
Threaded and capped ferrule. Strongest construction and firmest, best hit with feedback. Lots of people will tell you that you can't tell a difference - but I can. Phenolic bumper will also help.
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+1

Listen to this guy. Even just a phenolic bumper will change the hit big time.
 
Any particular reason you are adamant that the ferrule is ivory? Reason being is that ivory just isn't very hard. It's like asking a Chevette to be fast. Technically it can be, but it would be much easier to get there if you went with another option.
 
The specific reason is I'm having it made with nothing but natural materials with exception of the joint pin, weight bolt if needed and epoxies/glue
 
blackboarowner said:
Threaded and capped ferrule. Strongest construction and firmest, best hit with feedback. Lots of people will tell you that you can't tell a difference - but I can. Phenolic bumper will also help.
Click to expand...

A capped ferrule softens the hit.... uncapped and short makes a harder hit...

Kim
 
Ivory

I disagree. I have tested both types recently - over and over. Some people have more sensitivity to feel. Just like some people have a better palate for tasting subtle differences in wine. No disrespect meant - and not trying to get in a pi$$ing match. It is just my experience.
 
whammo57 said:
A capped ferrule softens the hit.... uncapped and short makes a harder hit...

Kim
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Only if the material is softer than the wood. If it's harder than the wood, such as melamine, then logic dictates the more ferrule material you have, the harder the hit will be. Being that ivory is organic like wood, it varies as wood does in hardness. Elephant ivory is not a great choice for a hard hit. While some certainly hit harder than others, few are hard enough to hit as hard as melamine.

However, there is an ivory that is much harder than melamine, and rivals elephant ivory in whiteness & beauty. That would be hippo. Bar none the hardest & strongest ivory on the planet. Not the easiest stuff to find, but it's available. Not a pleasure to work with, either. It's pretty like ivory, but that's the only similarity. The stuff is an absolute nightmare to cut.
 
qbilder said:
Any particular reason you are adamant that the ferrule is ivory? Reason being is that ivory just isn't very hard. It's like asking a Chevette to be fast. Technically it can be, but it would be much easier to get there if you went with another option.
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What he said.
 
Here are two viable options. Top is antler (exceptionally white and clean, not typical of antler). The bottom is hippo ivory. There is a line on the hippo that looks kinda like a crack, but in fact it is the pith. Pith is the the core of the tusk. It's darker because blood used to flow through it, just like it does in any tooth. Regardless, either of these materials will be harder than ivory. The hippo will be noticeably harder.



Left is the antler. Right is the hippo:
 
I think there is also a difference between capped and uncapped in the old days to now. In the mid 70s, for example, an ivory shafted Joss ferrule had no tenon whatsoever showing on the top of the ferrule. More recently built ivory ferrules I've had built (other makers) have that small tenon hole showing. The cuemakers can chime in, but I assume by uncapped, you mean with the small hole in the top of the ferrule, for expansion of the glue, etc. The tenon itself would be the larger diameter shown, of course. But it is interesting that some of the cues of the past had no hole on the top of the ferrule at all.
 
WildWing said:
I think there is also a difference between capped and uncapped in the old days to now. In the mid 70s, for example, an ivory shafted Joss ferrule had no tenon whatsoever showing on the top of the ferrule. More recently built ivory ferrules I've had built (other makers) have that small tenon hole showing. The cuemakers can chime in, but I assume by uncapped, you mean with the small hole in the top of the ferrule, for expansion of the glue, etc. The tenon itself would be the larger diameter shown, of course. But it is interesting that some of the cues of the past had no hole on the top of the ferrule at all.
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No.... By uncapped, I mean the whole tenon showing through. Basically, a "sleeve" of ivory around it
 
The Captain said:
No.... By uncapped, I mean the whole tenon showing through. Basically, a "sleeve" of ivory around it
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I understand what you mean. I've never seen an ivory ferrule with the whole tenon showing through the end. I guess some cuemakers do it that way, but I've never seen it. I was referring to capped only where in the old days, no wood at all showed through, and quite a few I have today have a very small hole in the end. I think they both qualify as the "capped" definition, though I would discuss with the cuemaker your preference.
 
Most capped ferrules today have a small hole for glue relief. A "through" ferrule means wood extrudes all the way through & the tip is glued directly to wood.

Hardness of hit with a capped ferrule relies heavily on how hard the material is. Hardness of hit with a through ferrule relies a lot less on ferrule material, and more so on the rest of the cue. If It were me, I wouldn't do a through ivory ferrule, especially if it were going to have a hard tip. Ivory isn't very strong & is best if it has the cap to reinforce, hold it together.
 
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