play safe or shoot?

[DAVE_M]

Ever play someone a game of 8 ball and he'd rather play safe instead of trying to make his shot? I'm not talking about trying to make a hard shot but a easy shot that he would skip because playing the safe is easier than the shot. Years ago I played pool all the time. I got sucked into to playing in a league and found guys constantly playing safe instead of attempting makeable shots. I've always played offence and tried to make my shots and not worry about burying the other guy behind a ball on purpose. If a guy shoots and misses and the cue rolls behind another ball burying it that's one thing but to do it on purpose is another to me. Back in the day we had a name for that type of player. In the pool room we all knew who the "safe" players were and we would tell em grow a set, go play with the kids you woose.

Mosconi hated playing Crane because Crane played slow and he played a awful lot of safes. Mosconi's safes weren't much because he rarely played a safe. Sigel was famous for burying the other players with safes yet he claimed he hated having to play safe, he'd rather take the shot if it was makeable. Strickland's safe play is the worst part of his game because he is all offence. I've seen him screw up so many times trying to play safe its funny. Its not his style to play safe.

I know we have all been told playing safes is part of the game. I've always said yeah its part of the game, the sissy part. I'd rather a guy miss a ball on purpose when he's really playing safe than to tell me I'm playing safe.

How do you guys feel about safes?

If playing safe is the difference between winning and losing, I'm playing safe.

When someone tells me that playing safeties is *insert derogatory word* pool or sissy pool. I usually let out a huge fart and walk away. I'll let them waft in the smell of real ****.

 

[NitPicker]

This is about the way safeties are played today, not how you wish they were played, so that's what I chose to address. Pushes take slightly more thought than current safeties, but require no skill to execute, and would thus be more boring for spectators.



Well I like how you reduced the conversation to a very specific skill level. Anyway, your perception of safeties is way off. Do you realize how often a safety results in a shot that "can't be jumped, kicked or anything"? That's less than one percent of safeties at best. You are really focusing in on the rarest possible situations here. But yes you're right that sometimes the position might make it easy to hook your opponent, but that in no way translates to instant BIH. Good amateurs also know how to jump and kick well.



You're going to need to elaborate here. It's your contention that you shouldn't be able to intentionally put the cue ball in a really difficult spot that you yourself would not be able to hit the object ball. If that's the case, there will be far less situations where these extremely difficult and creative shots are necessary. They would otherwise only come up unintentionally after someone missed a shot and got lucky.

We obviously disagree and that's fine. But I'm not looking to argue, only make a point. You've assumed way too much about me in each of your comments so I don't see a productive discussion here. I'm not sure you've ever played any other way. One day you might figure it out, maybe not...doesn't matter...only that you're enjoying playing. C-ya.

 

[gregcantrall]

You are the type of player that money players would fight over to play LOL. There was a match where Buddy Hall was commentating a match with a Japanese player, his co-commentator said how his play style did not involve safeties. Buddy asked "do they play for money over there"? "No" "Well when they do, they'll start to play safe".

Every time I've heard someone say a safe was a "sissy" shot, they also had no idea how to use a bridge and that was also a "sissy stick". They also could not run 2 balls unless both were hanging.

They will also hit everything hard enough to go by 3 pockets when they miss by a diamond. They also think scooping under the cue ball is a jump shot. They also think playing one handed means you get to rest the cue stick on the rail.

Why would I be upset when my opponent plays safe when he could have run out? It is a free shot, I never should have had. :grin-square:

 

[railbird99]

We obviously disagree and that's fine. But I'm not looking to argue, only make a point. You've assumed way too much about me in each of your comments so I don't see a productive discussion here. I'm not sure you've ever played any other way. One day you might figure it out, maybe not...doesn't matter...only that you're enjoying playing. C-ya.

I'm not trying to argue. I thought you brought up some interesting points, and I was providing my opinion on the subject. You chose to just dismiss everything I said without adding much of anything. As far as assumptions go, you assuming I haven't played old school two foul or no foul, or ring games for that matter, just because I don't share your opinion is baseless. Push rules aren't new or hard to understand, and nothing I said made any assumptions about them. I was staying on topic, not trying to bring up a new topic.

I'm fine with disagreeing, but there's no need to make assumptions about someone based on nothing.

 

[Popeye31]

I really think this safety / no safety thing is like two guys arguing over if Ford or Chevy is the better truck. I've won many games not playing the safety. and I kind of like it when people say nice shot when its an obvious hard shot. And you know its a hard shot at least for the other guy when you call your ball and a pocket and he puts down his beer and starts chalking his stick. I think making those shots makes me a better shooter because I get the practice in on those shots. How many of yall practice difficult shots in your daily drills. Mabe if you practiced them you wouldn't have to play safe:idea2::

O and Chevy is the better truck.LOL

 

[Black-Balled]

I learned long ago, when its your shot, you pick.
When irs the other guy's shot...stfu!

 

[thall]

If playing safe is the difference between winning and losing, I'm playing safe.

When someone tells me that playing safeties is *insert derogatory word* pool or sissy pool. I usually let out a huge fart and walk away. I'll let them waft in the smell of real ****.

LOL, good one. Nothing I like better when the pitcher walks the best hitter on the other team and the next batter hits it over the fence,

 

[DAVE_M]

LOL, good one. Nothing I like better when the pitcher walks the best hitter on the other team and the next batter hits it over the fence,

We talkin' pool or baseball? You asked a stupid question and I gave you a stupid answer. You don't want our opinions on the subject matter, you want validation that pool should be played without safeties.

 

[HawaiianEye]

What's good for spectators and what's good for players are two entirely different things. I'm not playing pool for the spectators, nor am I interested in dumbing the game down to attract more spectators.

If there are NO spectators, there is NO professional pool to be resurrected.

The game was already dumbed down when they created BIH and Texas Express in the first place. Same goes for jump cues, Magic Racks, etc.

People are trying to turn pool into a completely different game. Instead of bridges and jump cues, I'm waiting for a REAL little "bridge" (like a ramp) to come out with where you can "drive" over balls instead of jumping them. Let's make the game like one of those little race car tracks with curves, bridges, and straight away ramps. You just lay them all out on the table as you think they may "lead" to the shot...then fire away and watch the ball fly around the "course" you set out.

Everybody talks about pool being "too easy" for the pros and "they need to make it harder"!

It was "harder" back when you had one cue to play with, slower cloth, regular racks, and different rules.

 

[thall]

We talkin' pool or baseball? You asked a stupid question and I gave you a stupid answer. You don't want our opinions on the subject matter, you want validation that pool should be played without safeties.

Struck a nerve huh, your for walking the best hitters too, you don't want to see them hit, come now,LOL

Dave you missed my point altogether. I wasn't talking about players who play safe because they don't have a good shot to work with, I was talking about players who pass up a easy shot and play a safe instead just to bury the other player, most times doing so just to get ball in hand. Back in the day at our old pool hall guys that did that stuff got called alot worse than sissy, they got called out and pointed out and most times they had to leave altogether because they couldn't take the ribbing from those that could and would shoot.

I thought I asked what you guys thought about safety play verses shooting. I never said pool should be played without safes, there are times when safe is all you got to work it. I do think if you got a decent shot to work with shoot it, thats all I'm saying.

 

[DAVE_M]

Struck a nerve huh, your for walking the best hitters too, you don't want to see them hit, come now,LOL

Dave you missed my point altogether. I wasn't talking about players who play safe because they don't have a good shot to work with, I was talking about players who pass up a easy shot and play a safe instead just to bury the other player, most times doing so just to get ball in hand. Back in the day at our old pool hall guys that did that stuff got called alot worse than sissy, they got called out and pointed out and most times they had to leave altogether because they couldn't take the ribbing from those that could and would shoot.

I thought I asked what you guys thought about safety play verses shooting. I never said pool should be played without safes, there are times when safe is all you got to work it. I do think if you got a decent shot to work with shoot it, thats all I'm saying.

I didn't miss your point

What's wrong with someone playing safe when they don't have to? It's their shot, let them shoot what they want. When it's their turn, you sit your butt in the chair and shut up.

 

[thall]

I didn't miss your point

What's wrong with someone playing safe when they don't have to? It's their shot, let them shoot what they want. When it's their turn, you sit your butt in the chair and shut up.

We always did let them shoot anyway they wanted. We never tried to stop anyone from doing whatever they wanted with their shot. We sat our butt in the chair and we shut up. Then after the safe we got up and then the fun began, the ribbing, the tormenting, the you hide that cue ball pretty good, do you hide under the bed when a storm comes up too. Fact is we knew why they were playing safe when they didn't have to, they were scared they might miss that easy shot. That's all it was about. They didn't have the guts or gonads to go ahead and shoot that easy shot. We called them cowards among other things. Nothing wrong with a safe when your faced with a tough shot. When you got a easy shot and still won't take it we found a lot wrong with that kind of playing.

Think about Dave, a guy that spends more time looking at your balls instead of his own makes me wonder why you take up for them,:grin::grin::grin::grin:

 

[bdorman]

It was "harder" back when you had one cue to play with, slower cloth, regular racks, and different rules.

And they ruined football when they instituted "point of forward progress" to spot the ball after the ball-carrier was tackled. Who cares about his point of forward progress? If I pushed/carried him back six yards before slamming him to the ground, then that's where he's "down!"

A bunch of sissies took over the game. Next they'll want to put faceguards on the helmets...and then tell me I can't tackle the runner by the faceguard. H#ll, if he doesn't want to be tackled by the faceguard, then don't wear one! Wusses are taking over sports.

 

[lorider]

We always did let them shoot anyway they wanted. We never tried to stop anyone from doing whatever they wanted with their shot. We sat our butt in the chair and we shut up. Then after the safe we got up and then the fun began, the ribbing, the tormenting, the you hide that cue ball pretty good, do you hide under the bed when a storm comes up too. Fact is we knew why they were playing safe when they didn't have to, they were scared they might miss that easy shot. That's all it was about. They didn't have the guts or gonads to go ahead and shoot that easy shot. We called them cowards among other things. Nothing wrong with a safe when your faced with a tough shot. When you got a easy shot and still won't take it we found a lot wrong with that kind of playing.

Think about Dave, a guy that spends more time looking at your balls instead of his own makes me wonder why you take up for them,:grin::grin::grin::grin:

i posted earlier that when i used to strictly play in bars i had the same opinion as you.
i started playing in bars in the early 70's and knew nothing but bar rules. with the influx of league in the 80's i started encountering bush league players who wanted to play league rules and i refused as long as i held the table. i even refused to play 9 ball due to the slop factor. if they held the table i it was their rules ...until i won .:grin:

although i play leagues now a days and do incorporate safties when needed i still enjoy going to bars now and then and playing bar rules.

even during league play i mostly play strictly offense....unless i really want to win that match. take last years city tournament. i faced a 6 who has the reputation of being the best league player in town ." sandbagger ", i am a 5. our match went 42 innings with me playing 30 safes and him 12. i won 4-1. afterwards he came up and shook my hand and said it was his 1st loss in the cities in 5 years.

now you may call me a wuss for passing up shots i could easily make....i call my self a winner .

since i am up in years now and can not see the shots i used to i do not try to out shoot them ....i try to out think them.

 

[onepocketron]

Safeties win games. In the competitive league I play in, if you don't play smart, prepare to lose. and lose very often. If I think I can get out, I go for it, if not, prepare to kick if I can make that happen for you.

 

[d_day]

If there are NO spectators, there is NO professional pool to be resurrected.

The game was already dumbed down when they created BIH and Texas Express in the first place. Same goes for jump cues, Magic Racks, etc.

The way I remember it, BIH and Texas Express were created to speed up the game because of all the safe play that was slowing it down.

 

[Colonel]

If you play really competitive 9 or 10 ball it is part of the game, at times a big part. You not only have to develop a safety game but be able to kick safe unless you hate $. These are things that require you to put in time and practice just like any other facet of your game.

 

[philly]

Don't take it so literally. The point is most people aren't going to like their draw in a tournament if it's SVB. Your goal as a player should be to make people dislike playing you, from a competitive standpoint, not socially.

Your goals are your goals. My goals are my own. I could care less if a player likes playing me or not. I play my own game. If I get in my opponents head so be it. Doesn't faze my game. Looks like it alters yours. Going to the poolroom and matching up or playing tournaments to have players dislike playing me is not one of my goals. The opponents I play generally are not fazed by their opponents anyway. I don't know where you play.

 

[philly]

This is why "I" prefer "two foul" to one-foul.

I would also get rid of jump cues, but that is just "me".

I prefer "old school" pool for both playing and watching.

To each, their own.

Aloha.

Here Here Hawaiian. Agree with everything you said especially jump cues. Old school all the way.

 

[hang-the-9]

Struck a nerve huh, your for walking the best hitters too, you don't want to see them hit, come now,LOL

Dave you missed my point altogether. I wasn't talking about players who play safe because they don't have a good shot to work with, I was talking about players who pass up a easy shot and play a safe instead just to bury the other player, most times doing so just to get ball in hand. Back in the day at our old pool hall guys that did that stuff got called alot worse than sissy, they got called out and pointed out and most times they had to leave altogether because they couldn't take the ribbing from those that could and would shoot.

I thought I asked what you guys thought about safety play verses shooting. I never said pool should be played without safes, there are times when safe is all you got to work it. I do think if you got a decent shot to work with shoot it, thats all I'm saying.

Did you ever think that the ball after this or the ball after that may not be an easy shot or good position shot and the player played a safe for a shot he saw that was past his next ball?

That's how the game is played, if you play it one ball a time, you will lose a lot.

I've played a safe on an easy shot when I knew I can move a ball into a better place either during the safe or when I could place the cueball in a different spot. If I see his ball blocking mine, I'd try to move it on a safe or get an angle to break that ball out, or a cluster or even getting a ball away from the rail near a pocket for an easier shot later.

That is the beginning of going from a D to a C to a B, ability to think ahead.

Many other times it's just a bad player that was taught in league to keep playing save against another bad player till they had 1 or 2 balls left. I've seen someone with 3 balls on the table all near pockets and they were talking with a coach about how to play safe. That's just a weak player not someone without "guts".