Pool's "Best Practices"
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
Is that in the Big Book of Pool Facts? Because otherwise I'll need some corroboration.
And anyway, what about the pros who do use it? How do they do it with a beginner technique?
pj
chgo
One practice routine I used, that was especially good for nine-ball, was running the balls in reverse order. It just seemed more natural that way.
Likewise, me a my buddy saw all the Elvis movies for free. We would walk into the movie theater backwards, and the management always thought we were leaving. :smile:
Likewise, me a my buddy saw all the Elvis movies for free. We would walk into the movie theater backwards, and the management always thought we were leaving. :smile:
Clearly people are not on the same page with what a "pendulum stroke" actually is, so this thread may benefit from an explanation from the OP.
Agree 100%. It's sad that pool is one the hardest sports out there, and requires so much precision, yet we can't agree on even the most basic fundamentals. This results in making it much harder for people to pick up the game.
Compared to SVB, what you're doing clearly isn't "working". How narcissistic and ignorant do you have to be to assume that you have it all figured out for yourself and you can't improve by taking suggestions?
He isn't telling you how to play. It's clear he's just trying to help and trying to establish a very basic set of fundamentals that can be considered "best practices" in general, not necessarily for everyone.
You may disagree with him, which is fine, but don't just disregard it based on the ignorance of "there is no wrong way, do whatever works for you".
Finally, how does someone find out what "works" for them? Dumb luck? Brute force? Should we all start mimicking players like Keith McCready?
I'd be surprised if there's much confusion about it. It means holding the elbow still and swinging the forearm from it like a pendulum, contacting the CB at about the bottom of swing. Its main feature, of course, is that only the forearm (and maybe the hand) moves, at east until contact.
Like others I'd say that elbow drop after contact is within the definition of a pendulum stroke.
pj
chgo
Good post.
I like to try to back up one step and focus on goals or sub-goals. An example would be guiding the front of the cue stick accurately -- the bridge. The goal for the bridge is to allow you to hit precisely the spot on the cue ball you want to hit (ignoring any flaws in the stroke :wink: for the time being). Reasonable characteristics to look for are little movement of the hand, good prevention of side-to-side movement of the shaft, little or no binding which would impede the stroke, .... Whether a bridge is good or bad could be judged from those factors.
Not included are characteristics such as what's comfortable, what's stylish and what you feel like.
Like it was pointed out earlier, I think some people think that means the stick itself is swinging like a pendulum, which is not necessarily true, and might be too slight to tell. Thus people are assuming that top players don't have a pendulum stroke if their stick follows through more or less straight. Therein lies the confusion.
I'm not very ambitious. If we get fewer suggestions to "just do what you like" and more efforts to give actual information I'll declare victory.How do we even legislate techniques as "best practices"? Refer GE Best practices ?
Before we get too ambitious , start by standardising rulesand equipment first.
pj
chgo
Or baseball, and many other sports. There is a "method" to teach a baseball swing properly. And if every kid said, well, so and so does not do it exactly like that, we'd be sunk.
Well, so and so did it at one time. As he was developing his eye, his hand-eye coordination and pitch recognition, he might have deviated to a path later on that may have improved his hitting, but would not help others. Nobody knows for sure they are going to be a power hitter when learning the correct swing, or who is gonna be just a very good contact hitter, or who is gonna swing from their heels every time and hope for the best.
I mean, Keith McCready was a top notch pool player and won many pro tourneys, yet NOBODY would teach his stroke to someone, ever. No offense Keith, but there are a few baseball players swings I would never teach kids to copy either. But because the pro player had such quick hands, they could do something wrong, where as the other 99% of pro baseballs players could not copy it and succeed. But if someone said I could play like Keith if I switched, would I do it. Gosh darn right I would !!! But it would NEVER work for me and most others.
Some folks are just so freakish in talent, that it would never matter exactly how they did things, but even the "freaks" started somewhere.
There lies your problem. Your definition of a pendulum stroke encompasses strokes that most would not define as a pendulum stroke. When most people refer to a pendulum stroke, they are referring to a pinned elbow stroke before and after contact. Widening the definition of pendulum stroke to suit your needs doesn't help support what most people refer to as a pendulum stroke.
:thumbup2:
I don't know if that's true, but since the Best Practices goal is minimal movement before contact, it would be an incidental difference anyway.
In fact, I think Best Practice for harder shots is to allow the forearm's momentum to pull the elbow down naturally after contact (or allow the stroke to continue until stopped against the body), to avoid slowing it too early.
The important point here is that there are commonly held Best Practices for pool that should be taught as a matter of course, just like in every other sport, regardless of whether or not they're ultimately used identically by everybody.
pj
chgo
I disagree with your statement in bold. As I posted in the elbow drop thread, the rigid elbow stroke is a pulling motion. The elbow drop prior to impact stroke is a pushing motion. The elbow drop after impact stroke is a pulling motion up to and including impact, followed by a pushing motion after impact. I suspect that it's very possible that there could be two strokes involved in the elbow drop after impact stroke due to the change from pulling to pushing, so I'm not in favor of calling that a natural reaction or a best practice.
However, I think both a rigid elbow stroke and elbow drop before contact stroke are both legitimate and natural.
I think of the rigid elbow stroke as similar to a bicep curl. Also, the consistent pushing motion of an elbow drop prior to impact is also a natural and fluid motion.
I like the focus on goals - it can teach broader principles and encourage customization/innovation.
pj
chgo
I'm fine with differing on some details - and glad we seem to agree that there are "fundamentals" to be taught.
pj
chgo
You've lost me here, lol..........I am from Kentucky, though.:smile:
On the forward stroke, regardless of whether one drops the elbow or not, to me it's a pushing motion.........the hand is at the butt end of the stick, we pull it back using mainly the triceps (back swing) and we push it forward mainly using the biceps. When the elbow drops, we're flexing the shoulder too (forward flexion).......adding more push.
Am I missing something?Thanks.
DTL
I see the backswing as a pushing motion and the forward stroke as a pulling motion.