Controversy over Corey Deuel break

(((Satori))) said:
I can't buy into this. I seriously doubt that there was any thought about a need for randomness by the games designers and if Corey was around then to show them his techniques I think they would probably applaud them. Plus Corey is not the first to figure out breakshots.



To me your example is sort of like saying the onside kick should be illegal in football because way back when the games designers intended a kickoff to be kicked to the other team..
Click to expand...

The facts are in support of my post as well as history!

Onside kicks are often recovered by the receiving team with great field position as a bonus. The game of football has evolved. Pool was not meant to be played like tennis where you hold serve and matches decided by the lag? I hope that is not what you are saying was the games designers original intent???

KD



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
kanecalgary said:
It does hurt pool. I'm surprised you don't see it.

A fine battle? Corey's a lock for 1 pocket and heavy favourite in straight pool.

I'm sure if Corey wanted to play 9ft 10 ball or standard box 8 ball Corey can get all he wants. If they play either let me know if you wanna sweat it.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked pool isn't just a game where you hit the 1 ball and go to the 2 ball and whoever makes the last and highest numbered ball wins the game!

Pool is a medley of different games! :) there's 1-pocket, then there is straight pool, then there a few different rotation games!

If someone wants to run there tap about someone,,, challenge them! Not just 1 discipline, but 3! That's what makes the better player! If John wants to bark at Corey, then they should play "pool" not just one discipline of the sport. They should play a few different disciplines and see who comes out on top!
 
Kid Dynomite said:
The facts are in support of my post as well as history!

Onside kicks are often recovered by the receiving team with great field position as a bonus. The game of football has evolved. Pool was not meant to be played like tennis where you hold serve and matches decided by the lag? I hope that is not what you are saying was the games designers original intent???

KD



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...

I would imagine their intent for 8-ball was for one guy to run 7 balls + the eight to win the game. The "randomness" in the break might have been assumed but I doubt that they felt it was needed. For example if back then one guy wanted to soft break to prevent the spread and create a more strategic game then cool. I think the same logic would have been applied by them if they were to consider Corey's break.
 
Kid Dynomite said:
The facts are in support of my post as well as history!

Onside kicks are often recovered by the receiving team with great field position as a bonus. The game of football has evolved. Pool was not meant to be played like tennis where you hold serve and matches decided by the lag? I hope that is not what you are saying was the games designers original intent???

KD



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that there was any original intent in the game of 8b. People just do whatever they can to make a ball, which historically has been to hit it hard and hope or maybe hit it at a different angle, etc. Corey, once again, found a more successful way. If it makes the game too easy, then, sure, it should be changed. Maybe we should make svb change his 9 and 10 breaks.
 
Kid Dynomite said:
It does violate the "spirit" of the rules!

The break was always "intended" to be random in outcome and ball placements. Rack rigging violates the "original" design and intent of the games creators!

To be honest, that is why in 50 years no one was "so nitty" to try and figure out how to cheat the games creators original design and intent!!!

Kd


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...

Things like Coreys break have been around for a long, long time. If you dislike Corey's break so much, try playing John Henry some 8 ball some time. (most three year olds will spread the rack on the break more than he will with his first ten shots)

Corey is an innovator and a thinker. NOT a cheater. Nothing at all wrong with the way he breaks. In fact, it is quite intelligent. You guys crying about "that's not how we always played the game", do you use a jump cue? We never used to. ;)

This is all nothing more than people crying because their horse died on the track.
 
Last edited:
Heard a couple players discussing this issue with one of the guys running things at the tournament tonight. He then went and had a chat with Corey.

I don't really like it and I think the tournaments need to address this in the rules, but as long as they don't its hard to fault Corey for doing it. Everybody know it's what he does and if they choose to not address it in the rules then they are basically giving tacit approval for it. Not like ths is the first time we've seen this done.
 
Was he breaking like in the video, banking the wing ball, or was he coming off the back rail into the rack? Are there videos on u tube of him doing it in matches, it would be interesting to see them.
 
Kid Dynomite said:
It does violate the "spirit" of the rules!

The break was always "intended" to be random in outcome and ball placements. Rack rigging violates the "original" design and intent of the games creators!

To be honest, that is why in 50 years no one was "so nitty" to try and figure out how to cheat the games creators original design and intent!!!
Kd
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Perhaps it does violate the spirit, but I would more think the spirit of the rule would dictate that you make a ball then run out. Corey has just found a way to remove the randomness and better his odds.
What is the WPA rule regarding the break?
 
Last edited:
Banks said:
I'm not sure that there was any original intent in the game of 8b. People just do whatever they can to make a ball, which historically has been to hit it hard and hope or maybe hit it at a different angle, etc.
Click to expand...

To say the games creator was "Nostradamus " and envisioned a less then random outcome when as you say, it has been a culture of "hit it hard and hope" for over 100 years is pretty far fetched.

Your post above most clearly illustrates what I am saying about the games original design and intent.

Why not work as hard as he did on the break on making tough shots???

He tried to win that way and was getting his hat handed to him! Yes? That is the only reason for the change in strategy when you can't beat them then try something new ???

He went for getting the break advantage over shot making, kicking and safety play! All technical areas of the game while the break was the least technical aspect and neglected by design and due to the games original intent.

Kd

KD


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
With the slow wool cloth and the lighter less lively balls, the 'soft' break would
not have worked. Players did work on their breaks, but were limited by the equipment. There was the 'stroke' break, the 'high english' break, and others.
Lassiter had a break where the whole rack seemed to 'move down' when he
pounded it. Worked well.
( ball was more about making 'spreads' than running racks.
Running out from the break was a bonus.
The player who could 'get out' from the 4 or the 5 consistently usually won.
Sounds easy.....it wasn't on the old equipment.
You had to break with power, or you would have clusters.
Would have liked to see what Corey would have come up with.
He is a master of the rack.
 
The venues are having to re-think things for the Pro Events.

Many rooms have been doing amateur events for so long that they are having to learn how to do the Professional events differently.

Room Owners like Dave Coles do this well and his events will continue to evolve to keep the game interesting for the top Professionals to compete in.

Ray
 
Kid Dynomite said:
To say the games creator was "Nostradamus " and envisioned a less then random outcome when as you say, it has been a culture of "hit it hard and hope" for over 100 years is pretty far fetched.

Your post above most clearly illustrates what I am saying about the games original design and intent.

Why not work as hard as he did on the break on making tough shots???

He tried to win that way and was getting his hat handed to him! Yes? That is the only reason for the change in strategy when you can't beat them then try something new ???

He went for getting the break advantage over shot making, kicking and safety play! All technical areas of the game while the break was the least technical aspect and neglected by design and due to the games original intent.

Kd

KD


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...

Not at all. Corey has been a force whenever he's dedicated himself to the game. He finds a way to minimize the randomness and maximize his chance of making a ball on the break.

They all get a spanking now and then because nobody else has found a way to be as consistent without a monster break.
 
I give Corey a ton of credit. He is one of the most creative players out there. I was there today and in his match with sky it wasn't working so well as the pattern wasn't falling In to place. He had to work for a lot of those racks.

Seems to me, Corey finds the most out of the four corners of rule book and invents a new and better mouse trap, people lose and complain. No more soft break 9 ball. Now there will be a new 8 ball rack rule. Like others have said he is a true student of the game the way a champion should be. Go Corey!
 
Gunn_Slinger said:
With the slow wool cloth and the lighter less lively balls, the 'soft' break would
not have worked. Players did work on their breaks, but were limited by the equipment. There was the 'stroke' break, the 'high english' break, and others.
Lassiter had a break where the whole rack seemed to 'move down' when he
pounded it. Worked well.
( ball was more about making 'spreads' than running racks.
Running out from the break was a bonus.
The player who could 'get out' from the 4 or the 5 consistently usually won.
Sounds easy.....it wasn't on the old equipment.
You had to break with power, or you would have clusters.
Would have liked to see what Corey would have come up with.
He is a master of the rack.
Click to expand...

Very good point about the old equipment and slow cloth. IMO jump cues hurt the integrity or "original intent" of the game more than a strategic break.
 
Bigtruck said:
The venues are having to re-think things for the Pro Events.

Many rooms have been doing amateur events for so long that they are having to learn how to do the Professional events differently.

Room Owners like Dave Coles do this well and his events will continue to evolve to keep the game interesting for the top Professionals to compete in.

Ray
Click to expand...
Ray can you expand on what you mean here? In what ways?
 
Here in Phoenix the convention is that every barbox 8 ball player has to bust them as hard as he or she can and try to run out every time. Strategies, safety play and thinking ahead are highly frowned upon. Statistics show this style is very reliable and has at least an 8% chance of success.
 
Neil said:
Corey is an innovator and a thinker. NOT a cheater.
Click to expand...

Do you consider twisting the rack in 8 ball cheating? Corey was caught and warned about twisting the rack to wire the wing ball with the magic rack in 8 ball. This was at the Chinook winds tourney where they had one pattern for everyone. Alternate stripes and solids.


Someone else asked about video to Corey's other breaks. YouTube Deuel Tourangeau USBTC to see his 2nd ball break with a pattern rack.
 
kanecalgary said:
It does hurt pool. I'm surprised you don't see it.

A fine battle? Corey's a lock for 1 pocket and heavy favourite in straight pool.

I'm sure if Corey wanted to play 9ft 10 ball or standard box 8 ball Corey can get all he wants. If they play either let me know if you wanna sweat it.
Click to expand...

I wonder what measure you have turned to, in order to measure the negative impact on the game?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top