John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

What is right?

Neil said:
What you call childish, I call fighting for what is right.

.
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Some of these folks on here Neil are special. Insanity and Evil know no right. Its a nice game on a table about 3 feet or so from the floor. It would be nice if it were played by gentlemen who made decisions about what is best for them by noting who was winning but this is an internet forum.

There is no doubt Stan is a great teacher, but the defensive mode he took with anyone who even typed the letters cte was way out of line. He created the atmosphere that made him want to leave although some of the others helped him with that.

The minute that I know that I am playing pool with someone that is less than a gentleman, I quietly unscrew my cue and find better company. I share anything and everything thing I know with people that I play with and I wont waste my time on someone whose ultimate goal in life is to beat people using any means available.

Some of the conversation that ensued from those same people after Stan left taught me a lot and I don't have a lot of time for it. Those people have in mind what they think is right and were it left to them they would run everyone else off and then they would fight amongst themselves.

I have my own ideas of what is right and wrong in pool but no one really cares so by voicing those opinions I would dilute my friends, who needs that?

There is trouble in River City and it starts with POOL.....lol
 
There's only so much a man can take.

Robin,
Unfortunately, you and I don't see this the same way.

From the very beginning, Stan Shuffett has been vilified and ridiculed primarily by Lou Figueroa and Patrick Johnson along with a few others for his position on CTE Pro One.

The name-calling and snide remarks started very early on and it wasn't Stan who started the hate-filled diatribe. In fact, it was started many years ago in attacks on a much older man named Hal Houle who brought CTE to the world, and Hal, at a very advanced age, didn't like being poked with a stick and ridiculed on Internet forums by the haters.

It wasn't enough for them to simply have their dissenting opinions. They had to make it PERSONAL. That is where the line in the sand was drawn.

And to this day, not one of them has apologized (including the unnamed ones) for their "childish" remarks. In fact, just the opposite has occurred with a plethora of denials to their constant badgering and ad hominem attacks, contrary to the facts.

To the moderators credit, to some degree, the haters have been muzzled for their personal attacks.


Stan Shuffett is a gentleman of the highest sorts and ANY indignation that he may have exhibited in these forums was no doubt, due to the extreme, ill-treatment that he received first, from a few in these forums.



JoeyA



336Robin said:
Some of these folks on here Neil are special. Insanity and Evil know no right. Its a nice game on a table about 3 feet or so from the floor. It would be nice if it were played by gentlemen who made decisions about what is best for them by noting who was winning but this is an internet forum.

There is no doubt Stan is a great teacher, but the defensive mode he took with anyone who even typed the letters cte was way out of line. He created the atmosphere that made him want to leave although some of the others helped him with that.

The minute that I know that I am playing pool with someone that is less than a gentleman, I quietly unscrew my cue and find better company. I share anything and everything thing I know with people that I play with and I wont waste my time on someone whose ultimate goal in life is to beat people using any means available.

Some of the conversation that ensued from those same people after Stan left taught me a lot and I don't have a lot of time for it. Those people have in mind what they think is right and were it left to them they would run everyone else off and then they would fight amongst themselves.

I have my own ideas of what is right and wrong in pool but no one really cares so by voicing those opinions I would dilute my friends, who needs that?

There is trouble in River City and it starts with POOL.....lol
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Neil said:
I agree with the BOB method. Curious where you learned it. Because I know that when I discovered it after learning his 30 degree rule, I posted it here. Without his 30 deg. rule, I never would have realized how simple it really is to be very accurate with it.
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BOB i couldn't tell you where i actually learned it, dont remember. It could have quite honestly been here as Sean Lienen and i had some discussions about it.
Look, dr daves sight has some very good info for beginners to slightly advanced players. I just dont think he crosses any boundaries with his info. Most is stuff you could get anywhere. His CTE stuff is a HUGE slap in the face to a very well respected instructor. Thats enough for me to never go to his sight. I come on AZ for a sharing of pool related conversations not to constantly be linked to another sight.
Hey just gotta be honest.
 
Probably not as far apart as you might think.

JoeyA,
I respect your opinion very much and we aren't as far apart as you might think because in any argument./attack there are always two sides and I recognize the side the you are mentioning with the attacks...yeah they were and they happened no doubt.

I guess if I had been Stans coach on dealing with them I would have told Stan to just have left it alone and it would have subsided because we are all entitled to opinions.

For some reason I think there was more at stake there than really needed to be and I took some lessons from it.

There isn't one person on this forum that can save pool.

We can put ourselves out there and try really hard to turn the tide in our little spot in the game but try for all we can....we cant save pool. Pool has to save itself and it does it, one place at a time, one neighborhood at a time and one player at a time. Just like you and I are doing on our home turf.

If Stan Shuffett is guilty of anything, he is probably guilty of the same thing that many of us are, he probably wanted to help pool by helping players. Unfortunately money was involved and whenever that happens there is going to be huge issues come up because of the money...and then the philosophy of the world of billiards....playability.....ya da, yada, yada...the whole geometrically correct stuff arguments angle...whatever.

I am not going to doubt what you've said nor question it any further, I played some with Scott Lee last night and what nice guy...I told him I wished that people on here would stick together just a little bit more. We talked about Pool in general and I told him of my concerns about the game. If anyone is qualified to be concerned about the game guys like Stan and Scott are. Its where they work. Ive had to come a long way to get to where I am concerning Pool but none of us alone can save it. No matter how hard we try. No matter how vehemently we argue over points that really in the scheme of things matter little.

As long as pool is getting played...and room owners are selling pool time...wtf guys, you know?

I know what you are saying is true and I will say this much about it.

I wish Stan would come back, I wish JB would come back. I will still agree with PJ on some things as I do with Dr.Dave or whoever and be a gentlemen about it.

If any of you AZ guys find yourself near Winston Salem NC or in NC call me and lets have a brew and play pool on my nickel. I like to play, money is means little to me. The game we have together is what I enjoy.

I cant imagine that some of this bs we get involved in should dilute the quality of this forum but from time to time....I guess we all need a lesson or two.

Thanks for your reply.


JoeyA said:
Robin,
Unfortunately, you and I don't see this the same way.

From the very beginning, Stan Shuffett has been vilified and ridiculed primarily by Lou Figueroa and Patrick Johnson along with a few others for his position on CTE Pro One.

The name-calling and snide remarks started very early on and it wasn't Stan who started the hate-filled diatribe. In fact, it was started many years ago in attacks on a much older man named Hal Houle who brought CTE to the world, and Hal, at a very advanced age, didn't like being poked with a stick and ridiculed on Internet forums by the haters.

It wasn't enough for them to simply have their dissenting opinions. They had to make it PERSONAL. That is where the line in the sand was drawn.

And to this day, not one of them has apologized (including the unnamed ones) for their "childish" remarks. In fact, just the opposite has occurred with a plethora of denials to their constant badgering and ad hominem attacks, contrary to the facts.

To the moderators credit, to some degree, the haters have been muzzled for their personal attacks.


Stan Shuffett is a gentleman of the highest sorts and ANY indignation that he may have exhibited in these forums was no doubt, due to the extreme, ill-treatment that he received first, from a few in these forums.



JoeyA
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dr_dave said:
Why do so many users here need to be so childish, petty, and immature at times? I am embarrassed for you guys (Neil, Rick, Cookie, Spidey, PJ, etc.) when I see how you interact at times.

I hope you guys don't have wives. :eek: If you do, I hope they are very "understanding."

Dave :(
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Dave these interactions are really just for fun. There is no real new info coming out in the aiming forum. I hope you include yourself as you have been everything that you have described in the past. So I hope your wife is indeed very understanding.
PJ has had the same old argument for years and years. It holds no water and is baseless.
Rick is a constant babble of subjective and objective. Deep down I believe hes pissed that CTE is Stans system, he's sure trying hard to change how it's presented.
Pj and Rick have there 2 or 3 followers and they piggyback in here and there.
The rest of us just defend CTE and yes we do it in childish ways sometimes.
Same old same old.
The users defend and take exception to the non users who criticize, ridicule, and make up stupid stuff about it. We get tired of there baseless useless wrong opinion of CTE, so we oftentimes make petty comments back in defense of there petty comments. It is what it is unfortunately.

You guys wanted us in our own sub- forum why don't you leave us alone .
 
cookie man said:
You guys wanted us in our own sub- forum why don't you leave us alone .
Click to expand...
Maybe there should be a separate sub forum called CTE. If there were, I would certainly never enter it. I already purposefully stay away from any threads with CTE in the title, unless I am explicitly asked to share my opinion (e.g., via PM or e-mail); and even then, I hesitate. I know from countless years of past experience that my participation would not be appreciated by any of the CTE proponents. I've done my best to understand all of the tangible benefits that "aiming systems" like CTE offer. For example, the focus on pre-shot routine and visual alignment is very valuable. I've also done my best to explain how and why CTE works for the people who can use it effectively.

However, the "Aiming Conversation" sub forum and the "John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems" thread are not exclusively for CTE people.

If you or others don't want to discuss, defend, or share substantive info about CTE in non-CTE forums or threads, you and others ("Believers" or "Naysayers") shouldn't bring it up.

Regards,
Dave
 
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dr_dave said:
Maybe there should be a separate sub forum called CTE. If there were, I would certainly never enter it. I already purposefully stay away from any threads with CTE in the title, unless I am explicitly asked to share my opinion (e.g., via PM or e-mail); and even then, I hesitate. I know from countless years of past experience that my participation would not be appreciated by any of the CTE proponents. I've done my best to understand all of the tangible benefits that "aiming systems" like CTE offer. For example, the focus on pre-shot routine and visual alignment are very valuable. I've also done my best to explain how and why CTE works for the people who can use it effectively.

However, the "Aiming Conversation" sub forum and the "John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems" thread are not exclusively for CTE people.

If you or others don't want to discuss, defend, or share substantive info about CTE in non-CTE forums or threads, you and others ("Believers" or "Naysayers") shouldn't bring it up.

Regards,
Dave
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So do you think it was childish to include all those links?
 
Why are we here...in the dungeon?

dr_dave said:
Maybe there should be a separate sub forum called CTE. If there were, I would certainly never enter it. I already purposefully stay away from any threads with CTE in the title, unless I am explicitly asked to share my opinion (e.g., via PM or e-mail); and even then, I hesitate. I know from countless years of past experience that my participation would not be appreciated by any of the CTE proponents. I've done my best to understand all of the tangible benefits that "aiming systems" like CTE offer. For example, the focus on pre-shot routine and visual alignment is very valuable. I've also done my best to explain how and why CTE works for the people who can use it effectively.

However, the "Aiming Conversation" sub forum and the "John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems" thread are not exclusively for CTE people.

If you or others don't want to discuss, defend, or share substantive info about CTE in non-CTE forums or threads, you and others ("Believers" or "Naysayers") shouldn't bring it up.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Its been awhile since the aiming forum has been relegated to the dungeon, so someone remind me why exactly we are here?
 
dr_dave said:
No. In fact, some people (you excluded) might actually find them informative and useful.

Catch you later,
Dave
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See how it goes. You were directly answering me and knowing i don't like links you loaded them up, but no you weren't being childish,lol. RIGHT.
 
Can we all agree that once perception comes into play then objectivity is out & subjectivity then becomes the main operative component?
 
cookie man said:
i dont think so but keep trying
Click to expand...

Well there can not be a more true statement than I made in the proposition of my question.

So, I guess there is a definite delusional impasse where some are concerned.

I'll just put my faith in that those that are not biased will make their own unbiased determinations.

You Have Great Day, Cookie.
 
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Shame on anyone that has success.....it makes some people MAD!!!!

JoeyA said:
Robin,
Unfortunately, you and I don't see this the same way.

From the very beginning, Stan Shuffett has been vilified and ridiculed primarily by Lou Figueroa and Patrick Johnson along with a few others for his position on CTE Pro One.

The name-calling and snide remarks started very early on and it wasn't Stan who started the hate-filled diatribe. In fact, it was started many years ago in attacks on a much older man named Hal Houle who brought CTE to the world, and Hal, at a very advanced age, didn't like being poked with a stick and ridiculed on Internet forums by the haters.

It wasn't enough for them to simply have their dissenting opinions. They had to make it PERSONAL. That is where the line in the sand was drawn.

And to this day, not one of them has apologized (including the unnamed ones) for their "childish" remarks. In fact, just the opposite has occurred with a plethora of denials to their constant badgering and ad hominem attacks, contrary to the facts.

To the moderators credit, to some degree, the haters have been muzzled for their personal attacks.


Stan Shuffett is a gentleman of the highest sorts and ANY indignation that he may have exhibited in these forums was no doubt, due to the extreme, ill-treatment that he received first, from a few in these forums.



JoeyA
Click to expand...

Joey, there's a reason they do this, and the reasons are simple......

th
 
dr_dave said:
Maybe there should be a separate sub forum called CTE. If there were, I would certainly never enter it.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...


Maybe there should be a separate sub forum called CTE but it certainly won't keep the naysaying trolls out of it like Patrick Johnson and English!! Are YOU going to be instrumental in keeping them out or will they follow your lead? Here's the answer...
NO!!

Proof is there are enough THREADS started with CTE specifically in the title and who are the usual first negative CTE instigators in the thread? Patrick Johnson and English!!

Here are just a few threads on the first three pages of the aiming forum:

CTE Pro One Visual Sweep versus Manual Pivot
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=391645


CTE discussion !
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=289527


CTE PRO ONE Contrast with Quarters System
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=389609


Center Cue Ball from Off the Back Rail (real CTE)
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=388525


Stevie's CTE video
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=385633

What good did having CTE in the tread title do? That's a preview of what a CTE sub forum would provide.
 
Cant exactly disagree

CJ Wiley said:
Joey, there's a reason they do this, and the reasons are simple......

th
Click to expand...

I cant exactly disagree, Ive felt a little of it myself. Although a great deal of the arguments on here seem to be more philosophical in nature.

The he said she said thing seems to want to go on forever until someone finally just withdraws altogether. Its hard to own up...for anyone...on what their culpability in some of this actually is. If people did that there would be less arguments period.

The world would be full of beautiful pool players and the birds would sing and chirp everyday!
 
As far as this English character Rick goes, he has to be one of the most disruptive posters in the history of this forum or any other forum I've ever been on regardless of the subject matter.

He was not only banned but WARNED by both Mike Howerton and recently by Mr. Wilson to no avail. The number and rate of his posts in CTE related threads is mind boggling and most have no positive content contributing to the subject.

Here are the two WARNINGS from Mike Howerton and Mr. Wilson: (why does he still continue?)

Mike Howerton:
You know what strikes me the funniest in this message? You proudly saying how you are not interested in CTE and wondering why someone keeps bringing things up with his slant on the topic.

And yet, this whole argument is you bad mouthing the system with your own personal slant on it.

Any other person would have just decided long ago that this system didn't work for them and moved on. There are many different ways to know where to aim and not everyone uses the same system.

You, on the other hand, don't seem like you will be satisfied until you single handedly convince everyone on the planet that you are right.

Does CTE work for some people? Yes, I imagine it does. Does it work for all people? No, I don't believe it does.

MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE!!!

Mike



Mr. Wilson

AZ Billiards Moderator

04-18-2015, 04:58 PM

I thought We'd already had the discussion about adding constructively?

Last chance.
 
Exactly

Oh yeah he was on me for awhile, sent me tons of pms, each one opening up another can of worms to try and work through and I finally said....hey we disagree....go play with some one else.

SpiderWebComm said:
As far as this English character Rick goes, he has to be one of the most disruptive posters in the history of this forum or any other forum I've ever been on regardless of the subject matter.

He was not only banned but WARNED by both Mike Howerton and recently by Mr. Wilson to no avail. The number and rate of his posts in CTE related threads is mind boggling and most have no positive content contributing to the subject.

Here are the two WARNINGS from Mike Howerton and Mr. Wilson: (why does he still continue?)

Mike Howerton:
You know what strikes me the funniest in this message? You proudly saying how you are not interested in CTE and wondering why someone keeps bringing things up with his slant on the topic.

And yet, this whole argument is you bad mouthing the system with your own personal slant on it.

Any other person would have just decided long ago that this system didn't work for them and moved on. There are many different ways to know where to aim and not everyone uses the same system.

You, on the other hand, don't seem like you will be satisfied until you single handedly convince everyone on the planet that you are right.

Does CTE work for some people? Yes, I imagine it does. Does it work for all people? No, I don't believe it does.

MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE!!!

Mike



Mr. Wilson

AZ Billiards Moderator

04-18-2015, 04:58 PM

I thought We'd already had the discussion about adding constructively?

Last chance.
Click to expand...
 
As I have said many many times now, I wish everyone that already has & everyone that will in the future invest themselves into CTE complete success with its implementation & benefit that it might bring to their games.

I just think the description of it is inaccurate & can be & at times has been misleading.

To me, it would be better described as an objective approach to utilizing ones subjective perceptions & intuitions or some shorter version that would mean the same thing.

Best 2 All,
Rick
 
336Robin said:
Oh yeah he was on me for awhile, sent me tons of pms, each one opening up another can of worms to try and work through and I finally said....hey we disagree....go play with some one else.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reminder! I forgot about the long winded novels and endless number of behind the scene PM's whether one is friend or foe. Could there possibly be ANY friends?
 
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