WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

Patrick Johnson said:
Of course this is true (as anyone with any common sense knows), and was pointed out when the "hammer stroke" silliness was first brought up here long ago. Maybe we're finally getting tired of the dumbing down of AzB...?

pj
chgo
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Not really. You are thrusting the wrist forward not slowing anything down. You can sit at your computer and do this and see its not a slowing down motion.
 
DTL said:
RIght, the wrist goes forward. But the wrist doesn't have a hold of the cue, the cue is held or cradled by the fingers and they move backward with this hammer motion. Compare this to your traditional wrist flick where the fingers are moving forward, adding speed.

Did you watch CJ's 15 Ball rotation ghost video that I posted in #1949? He's not doing this hammer motion at all on those shots.
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Yes i watched the video and i agree with you.
The wrist flick and the hammer motion are two different types of finishes. Wrist flick is most widely used. The hammer motion does have uses for certain types of shots in my opinion though and i do find myself using it more and more.
 
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Quote:
Maybe we're finally getting tired of the dumbing down of AzB...?

pj
chgo




Patrick Johnson said:
Not as long as there's a market for it.

pj
chgo
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PJ if you have something to say why not just say it. Your pissy little remarks when someone doesn't agree with EVERYTHING you have to say have gotten real old
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Of course this is true (as anyone with any common sense knows), and was pointed out when the "hammer stroke" silliness was first brought up here long ago. Maybe we're finally getting tired of the dumbing down of AzB...?

pj
chgo
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Maybe people are super tired of your childess remarks from behind your keyboard.
This is a discussion forum, not PJ'S way or the highway.
 
DTL said:
In other recent threads [CJ] talks about pausing at the end of his back stroke, "the gathering of the shot". That's a nice, feel-good description for people who do it (e.g. Buddy Hall)
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To be fair, whether or not he really does it, pausing at the end of the back stroke is a technique that can have real benefits.

pj
chgo
 
DTL said:
Right, in the video he cocks his wrist radially (always has, evident in that 12 year old picture he posts up sometimes) and it stays that way all the way through. Very early on in this thread a couple people asked for a video demonstration but he said "you can't see what I do because the motion is so quick and subtle" (same excuse used with other advanced techniques concerning video).

In other recent threads he talks about pausing at the end of his back stroke, "the gathering of the shot". That's a nice, feel-good description for people who do it (e.g. Buddy Hall), but he has no noticeable pause........never has, which again is clearly evident on video. In those same threads he advocates a shorter follow through. He has a short follow through only due to the fact that his grip hand is very forward on the cue compared to most modern day pros. Encouraging others with a more traditional, modern day grip placement to shorten their follow through is a mistake IMO.

CJ has a very unorthodox way of holding and stroking the cue. It works for HIM........not so sure it's good for others, esp beginners/intermediates.

As far as the hammer stroke goes, I'm not so sure most even really know what it really is. And I agree with DeadStick (see post #13) in that it's not "conducive to a straight, accelerating stroke". You say it's good for some shots, which ones? Certainly not for ones that need extra power. Video CAN show this, perhaps you could make one?
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No i can't say i would use it on a power stroke necessarily.
If you think about it any one that finishes at the chest with there tip on the cloth, as a lot of instructors teach, are following threw with a "hammer" stroke or finish.
When I was taught "pinning" and it isn't the same as CJ'S definition, you do the hammer wrist thing as your striking the CB. It's a learned technique that you may or may not find useful. I like it on slow precision forward roll shots. You can hit just above center CB with a slight downward motion of the cue and achieve forward roll.
 
cookie man said:
If you think about it any one that finishes at the chest with there tip on the cloth, as a lot of instructors teach, are following threw with a "hammer" stroke or finish.
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Yeah, but they're not "adding power" (or anything else special) to the stroke by doing that; they're just minimizing the grip's upward motion at the end of the stroke. As you say, it's a common practice that's been around forever.

pj
chgo
 
Neil said:
So much for you agreeing with that post you agreed to. Guess you didn't understand it at all. LOL. :wink:
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If spewing out distortions & mischaracterisations of the truth makes you happy then you're taking advantage of others for your own pleasure.

There is another individual that does the likes of that.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Yeah, but they're not "adding power" (or anything else special) to the stroke by doing that; they're just minimizing the grip's upward motion at the end of the stroke. As you say, it's a common practice that's been around forever.

pj
chgo
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Well to be fair they aren't losing power either since we are talking about the hammer motion in regards to finishing.
The hammer motion can also be used in striking the CB but I don't use it very much so I wont discuss whether there are benefits to it or not. I like it but only on a few shots.
 
ENGLISH! said:
If spewing out distortions & mischaracterisations of the truth makes you happy then you're taking advantage of others for your own pleasure.

There is another individual that does the likes of that.
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Took you that long for that comeback just to try and insult me yet again? What happened to biting your tongue?
 
cookie man said:
Well to be fair they aren't losing power either since we are talking about the hammer motion in regards to finishing.
The hammer motion can also be used in striking the CB but I don't use it very much so I wont discuss whether there are benefits to it or not. I like it but only on a few shots.
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There is a difference between your hand naturally finishing in that position and making it go to that position. And he advocates making it go there before contact.
 
DTL said:
Right, again (in red). But as I've said in recent posts and what DeadStick says in post #13, that's way after contact and is simply a natural side-effect of an extended follow-through (often accompanied by an elbow drop). It has nothing to do with the outcome of the shot in any way...........this "hammer" position happens at the end of the follow through, the wrist is not in this position at contact.

Since CJ has such a short follow through due to his forward grip placement, I've never seen this wrist in this position in any video footage.
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http://www.veoh.com/watch/v16778865...-Productions?h1=Juan+Garcia+vs+Jason+Kirkwood

Watch Jason. I think he comes the closest to using the so called hammer technique.
 
cookie man said:
Maybe people are super tired of your childess remarks from behind your keyboard.
This is a discussion forum, not PJ'S way or the highway.
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:thumbup2:

I agree. While all of our remarks & discussion come from through our keyboards, it's the 'holier than thou' posturing, condescension, & put down remarks that are childish.

If all has been determined then there is no need for any discussion of such issues. Someone should just get the Pool Bible put into print & AZB should perhaps close down the forum sections of the site.

That is what some here do. They stifle any real discussion. Perhaps that's why the thread count is trending down. Who wants to open a thread to have it basically shut down or turned into a playground for a couple or few individuals.

Mikjary Mike has said that real discussion on the forums is only being stifled by a handful of individuals. Stifling discussion, IMO, is not a good aspect for discussion forums.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
 
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