WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

.true confidence can not be hypocritical (although modesty actually can be).

So, we mere mortals can't see what you are doing, even with a video camera and detailed analysis after the fact, but you can see that all the top players are accelerating precisely at the moment of contact just by watching with your naked eyes?

Are the eyes of a champion really any better than those of a banger? Hell, the banger spends a lot more time watching other guys play than the champion does.

Maybe the railbirds have the best eye for this kind of stuff. They do the most watching of all.

I can actually hear it...and see how the cue ball reacts after contact.

My point is you can feel the stroke much better than you can see it. This goes for yourself or others, and I'm speaking from experience.

Some people think they can see confidence, however, it's something that is felt - it's the mannerisms that people mistake for confidence, yet that can be faked.....true confidence can not be hypocritical (although modesty actually can be).
with-people-of-limited-ability-modesty-is-merely-honesty-but-with-those-who-possess-great-talent-it-is-hypocrisy-arthur-schopenhauer.jpg


The stroke is similar, you can't fake it or it will show immediately in your game....not necessarily in your hand, wrist, or arm.
 
many of these "aliases" could sneak up on anyone.

I've met English and CJ but English doesn't look anything like CJ. Just sayin....


JoeyA

I know you, Joey, but many of these "aliases" could sneak up on anyone. :groucho:

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I've watched hundreds of players in the last year, and the ones that shine have one thing in common - it's not their position play, or even their knowledge of aiming.

They accelerate their strokes more effectively than the other players, it's precisely at the moment of contact. It's like the difference between cracking a whip and whipping a crack. ;) LoL :eek:



'the GAME is the teacher'

This rings true to me and my game. I play best when I am stroking the ball wellI and I find that when I am playing bad that I have a problem of letting my grip hand creep up the stick. In baseball terms it would be called choking up on the bat. That is my usual culprit for my stroke going bad and causing me to play bad and I try to watch out for it because when I choke up it throws off the timing of my acceleration. I dont know why it feels natural for me to creep up the stick but it is something I have to watch for.
 
getting your body in the same position relative to the "line of the shot"

This rings true to me and my game. I play best when I am stroking the ball wellI and I find that when I am playing bad that I have a problem of letting my grip hand creep up the stick. In baseball terms it would be called choking up on the bat. That is my usual culprit for my stroke going bad and causing me to play bad and I try to watch out for it because when I choke up it throws off the timing of my acceleration. I dont know why it feels natural for me to creep up the stick but it is something I have to watch for.

The game of pool is relatively easy once the fundamentals are perfected. The tough part is getting your body in the same position relative to the "line of the shot" and accelerating well at impact.
 
I've watched hundreds of players in the last year, and the ones that shine have one thing in common - it's not their position play, or even their knowledge of aiming.

They accelerate their strokes more effectively than the other players, it's precisely at the moment of contact. It's like the difference between cracking a whip and whipping a crack. ;) LoL :eek:



'the GAME is the teacher'

This rings true to me and my game. I play best when I am stroking the ball wellI and I find that when I am playing bad that I have a problem of letting my grip hand creep up the stick. In baseball terms it would be called choking up on the bat. That is my usual culprit for my stroke going bad and causing me to play bad and I try to watch out for it because when I choke up it throws off the timing of my acceleration. I dont know why it feels natural for me to creep up the stick but it is something I have to watch for.

The game of pool is relatively easy once the fundamentals are perfected. The tough part is getting your body in the same position relative to the "line of the shot" and accelerating well at impact.

I agree, but what are "the fundamentals"? I mean I know there is bridge, grip, stance, and stroke but everyone is different which is why I can understand how teaching would be so hard to do online without seeing the person. For instance, what is choked up too much for me is just right for someone else. I agree 100% though, the proper acceleration is an important part of the game.
 
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I've watched hundreds of players in the last year, and the ones that shine have one thing in common - it's not their position play, or even their knowledge of aiming.

They accelerate their strokes more effectively than the other players, it's precisely at the moment of contact. It's like the difference between cracking a whip and whipping a crack. ;) LoL :eek:



'the GAME is the teacher'
I've been watching many pro 14.1 matches on you tube lately. I may be wrong, but although these guys are highly skilled in strategy and position play, It seems (sometimes) they're making high runs without getting in any jams that would require them to display their skill in strategy, position play, etc. (Sometimes) it seems like it's all about not missing makable shots.
 
I can actually hear it...and see how the cue ball reacts after contact.

My point is you can feel the stroke much better than you can see it. This goes for yourself or others, and I'm speaking from experience.

Some people think they can see confidence, however, it's something that is felt - it's the mannerisms that people mistake for confidence, yet that can be faked.....true confidence can not be hypocritical (although modesty actually can be).

The stroke is similar, you can't fake it or it will show immediately in your game....not necessarily in your hand, wrist, or arm.

Now, of all the silly things I've heard you say... this is not one of them. ;)

The following missive will surely get scoffed at, but screw it, might as well add more stuff for folks to get outraged over. Lol

During those rare moments of pool genius I have, those times when suddenly making shots seems ridiculously easy and I think I might be getting ready to enter a few tourneys before I die, there is something about my stroke that makes me feel incredibly connected to the ball. The feel is solid, even on soft shots, the sound is more clear and penetrating, the balls in general seem to react differently, and that damn CB doesn't seem to have a mind of its own anymore. Conversely, I have never felt and hear the balls sound like that when I was shooting like crap. Seems one goes with the other, or at least it's true for me.

Even non-players can hear this, as evidenced when my youngest son (who rarely plays) was visiting last month and I was showing him a few things. I watched what he was doing, and then showed him how I wanted him to stroke the ball. His first comment was that he could hear the difference on strokes I said he did correctly. I told him to go home and practice listening for that sound, and if it didn't sound right, he wasn't hitting it right.

I've heard great player/commentators talk about this on video, and I forced my mind to deny these comments because I do know and understand the physics, and I do believe that the physics explains everything that some folks want to ascribe to magical special techniques. And yet, there is just something different about my stroke that gets me directly connected to the balls and the table when I am playing at my very best. So at those times, I try to forget about the truth of the physics and just get deep into that feeling of "hitting the ball well". How else would one enter the zone, by reasoning their way into it?

BTW there are many ways to listen, as I'm sure you are well aware of. I'm a retired musical instrument maker and restorer. With the few jazz guitars I've built, I held the wooden plates at the nodal point and tapped them for tone, but I know I was using the sensitivity of my fingers to feel the vibrations and much as I was using my ears to actually hear the tap tone. When the tone and vibrations reached a certain point, I knew that the plate was at the final thickness. There is some woman who supposedly figured out how to do this with a sound generator and metal fillings sprinkled on the plate to show distinct nodal patterns. Pretty cool, but I never heard of anybody great playing on one of her instruments, though. ;)

In all the great violin bows I made, I chose my wood by holding the blanks at the nodal point and tapping up and down the stick to "listen" for its tonal characteristics. If it didn't have what I was looking for, I just didn't use the stick, not matter how expensive it was. You can't even hear these vibrations with your ears, you must use your fingers. Most makers today purchase $3000 "Lucchi meters" to measure the sound velocity of their wood and make their determinations that way, but that kind of science will not give you the type of feedback I was looking for, like the duration and strength of the vibrations, the resonance of the sample, the absence or presence of interfering nodes, etc., feedback I continually listened to throughout the entire time spent carving the bow from a rough stick to a finished instrument. All I can say it that great players universally liked the way my bows played and sounded, working strictly by feel and experience.

Sometimes, though, it helps to have good ears as well. When I was a kid there was a deaf guy who was said to be the best marine mechanic in the area. He couldn't tune a motor by ear, so he "listened" with his fingers. They say he got those 2-strokes running smoother and with more power than anybody. Then one day, a heavy piece of machinery was falling off a lift, but being stone deaf he couldn't hear it and it fell on him, crushing his hip. He walked with a bad limp for the rest of his life. I met him in a bar when he was in his 70s, and he was still fixing outboards every day.

Maybe Shane's secret is listening with his fingers?
 
I've been watching many pro 14.1 matches on you tube lately. I may be wrong, but although these guys are highly skilled in strategy and position play, It seems (sometimes) they're making high runs without getting in any jams that would require them to display their skill in strategy, position play, etc. (Sometimes) it seems like it's all about not missing makable shots.

14.1 is all about leaving a makable next shot, and then setting up for a good break ball. The shots themselves are not usually too hard, but it's easy to hook yourself early in the rack, and easier still to leave yourself without a break shot by the end of the rack. If I could master those two things, I'd be a 100 ball runner.:wink:
 
Now, of all the silly things I've heard you say... this is not one of them. ;)

The following missive will surely get scoffed at, but screw it, might as well add more stuff for folks to get outraged over. Lol

During those rare moments of pool genius I have, those times when suddenly making shots seems ridiculously easy and I think I might be getting ready to enter a few tourneys before I die, there is something about my stroke that makes me feel incredibly connected to the ball. The feel is solid, even on soft shots, the sound is more clear and penetrating, the balls in general seem to react differently, and that damn CB doesn't seem to have a mind of its own anymore. Conversely, I have never felt and hear the balls sound like that when I was shooting like crap. Seems one goes with the other, or at least it's true for me.

Even non-players can hear this, as evidenced when my youngest son (who rarely plays) was visiting last month and I was showing him a few things. I watched what he was doing, and then showed him how I wanted him to stroke the ball. His first comment was that he could hear the difference on strokes I said he did correctly. I told him to go home and practice listening for that sound, and if it didn't sound right, he wasn't hitting it right.

I've heard great player/commentators talk about this on video, and I forced my mind to deny these comments because I do know and understand the physics, and I do believe that the physics explains everything that some folks want to ascribe to magical special techniques. And yet, there is just something different about my stroke that gets me directly connected to the balls and the table when I am playing at my very best. So at those times, I try to forget about the truth of the physics and just get deep into that feeling of "hitting the ball well". How else would one enter the zone, by reasoning their way into it?

BTW there are many ways to listen, as I'm sure you are well aware of. I'm a retired musical instrument maker and restorer. With the few jazz guitars I've built, I held the wooden plates at the nodal point and tapped them for tone, but I know I was using the sensitivity of my fingers to feel the vibrations and much as I was using my ears to actually hear the tap tone. When the tone and vibrations reached a certain point, I knew that the plate was at the final thickness. There is some woman who supposedly figured out how to do this with a sound generator and metal fillings sprinkled on the plate to show distinct nodal patterns. Pretty cool, but I never heard of anybody great playing on one of her instruments, though. ;)

In all the great violin bows I made, I chose my wood by holding the blanks at the nodal point and tapping up and down the stick to "listen" for its tonal characteristics. If it didn't have what I was looking for, I just didn't use the stick, not matter how expensive it was. You can't even hear these vibrations with your ears, you must use your fingers. Most makers today purchase $3000 "Lucchi meters" to measure the sound velocity of their wood and make their determinations that way, but that kind of science will not give you the type of feedback I was looking for, like the duration and strength of the vibrations, the resonance of the sample, the absence or presence of interfering nodes, etc., feedback I continually listened to throughout the entire time spent carving the bow from a rough stick to a finished instrument. All I can say it that great players universally liked the way my bows played and sounded, working strictly by feel and experience.

Sometimes, though, it helps to have good ears as well. When I was a kid there was a deaf guy who was said to be the best marine mechanic in the area. He couldn't tune a motor by ear, so he "listened" with his fingers. They say he got those 2-strokes running smoother and with more power than anybody. Then one day, a heavy piece of machinery was falling off a lift, but being stone deaf he couldn't hear it and it fell on him, crushing his hip. He walked with a bad limp for the rest of his life. I met him in a bar when he was in his 70s, and he was still fixing outboards every day.

Maybe Shane's secret is listening with his fingers?

I can't play any instrument, but I think sound is a big part of it, when it comes to hitting the ball well. I know immediately by the sound of the hit whether I hit it the way I wanted.
 
the payoff is the ability to get down on every shot as if it's already been made

I agree, but what are "the fundamentals"? I mean I know there is bridge, grip, stance, and stroke but everyone is different which is why I can understand how teaching would be so hard to do online without seeing the person. For instance, what is choked up too much for me is just right for someone else. I agree 100% though, the proper acceleration is an important part of the game.

The true fundamentals should be involved in the pre shot routine, so you can rehearse every aspect of the upcoming shot. This takes some training, however, the payoff is the ability to get down on every shot as if it's already been made.....because it virtually has.

'the GAME is the teacher'
 
Sorry, to inform you, it's the voice in your head and you're actually reading

Now, of all the silly things I've heard you say... this is not one of them. ;)

The silliest thing is that you think you're hearing me.

Sorry, to inform you:groucho:, it's the voice in your head and you're actually reading what other people are writing....through your own "lenses" of judgments, rationalizations, and justifications.
 
I can't play any instrument, but I think sound is a big part of it, when it comes to hitting the ball well. I know immediately by the sound of the hit whether I hit it the way I wanted.

Ball Click.. I have written about it many times on here only to be told I am dreaming, or trying to invent some new term.
When you know how to use it , a new world opens up to stroke technique, even though you hear it, it's the feel that goes along with it.

You hear it before it happens...it's like thunder and lightning

When you can recognize 1,2,3,4, click life is good. You stand over the shot and think...2 rails, 4 o'clock inside cue ball, 1 click.... with some practice the arm delivers for 1 click. It takes a few minutes to teach how to recognize and few months per each stroke to perfect depending upon the student. Not long after that it is barely a thought and flows through with natural and feel.

When you are clicking on all cylinders you are playing pool in the right speed.
Sincerely: SS
 
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The true fundamentals should be involved in the pre shot routine, so you can rehearse every aspect of the upcoming shot. This takes some training, however, the payoff is the ability to get down on every shot as if it's already been made.....because it virtually has.

'the GAME is the teacher'

These are the most profound words of wisdom I have heard anyone say here!

Frankly, if you need to "think" about ANY fundamental aspect of executing a shot when you are down on the shot...YOU are dead meat!!!

Thank you for saying what I have said so MANY times before, "there is no greater margin of error, when there is NO doubt"! Most people's thoughts when executing a shot are created by doubt! When you are down on the shot as if it were already in the pocket...there is NO doubt!
 
It took me literally thousands of hours to understand exactly how

These are the most profound words of wisdom I have heard anyone say here!

Frankly, if you need to "think" about ANY fundamental aspect of executing a shot when you are down on the shot...YOU are dead meat!!!

Thank you for saying what I have said so MANY times before, "there is no greater margin of error, when there is NO doubt"! Most people's thoughts when executing a shot are created by doubt! When you are down on the shot as if it were already in the pocket...there is NO doubt!

Yes, although this type pre-shot routine must be learned, I doubt if anyone does it naturally. The key is how the hips are used to control the head and upper body's decent to the shot. Also, how the right hand is used to control the tip, not the other way around as many players understand it (or misunderstand it in this case).

It took me literally thousands of hours to understand exactly how to rehearse every aspect of the shot and connect the ENTIRE body (synergistically) to the cue..... more specifically to the tip.

That's right, there's a way to connect the whole body to the tip, and that's something that would take me awhile to explain without demonstration.
 
The silliest thing is that you think you're hearing me.

Sorry, to inform you:groucho:, it's the voice in your head and you're actually reading what other people are writing....through your own "lenses" of judgments, rationalizations, and justifications.

Oh, please, stop with the Beavis and Butthead schtick. Would you prefer I say, "Of all the silly things I've read you write"? Fine, I'll take that into consideration next time if that will get you to respond to the actual point of the post, K?:rolleyes:

Sure, there are many voices in my head, but they are all mine. We all get along great together in here as long as I stay on my meds. Is that what you mean when you say... er, write things like, "We are of the opinion that..."? We all thought you were just using the Royal "we" in those instances - speaking for yourself and for all of pooldom - but maybe there is something more sinister behind all that "we" stuff. I can recommend a good psychiatrist in Dallas if you need one. :wink:

BTW I was agreeing with you if you bothered to actually read the rest of my post. :)
 
It took me literally thousands of hours to understand exactly how to rehearse every aspect of the shot and connect the ENTIRE body (synergistically) to the cue..... more specifically to the tip.

That's right, there's a way to connect the whole body to the tip, and that's something that would take me awhile to explain without demonstration.

And we are all so grateful that you have been able to distill all those thousands of hours into a brief demo at the table. You know how we love our shortcuts. :thumbup:

Why not spend less time searching for inappropriate memes, spiritual quotes, and other psychobabble and use that time to actually talk about, ya know... pool? You're in Texas, I'm in NY. A brief attempt at explaining these things will save me thousands in airfare.
 
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