Just going to vent some.....

Albatross Cues

Albatross Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aloha

The one thing that is really annoying is all these so called custom cues on the market.

Let's get down to brass tacks... What makes a cue custom?

There seems to be some serious gaps in the nomenclature involved. So maybe this needs to be clarified so all will know the difference. To what end can someone actually call thier cue custom? If they change the weight does this qualify? If the wrap is changed, how about now? Maybe they have a specific taper for thier liking. Is it now a custom cue? Can I just change out the tip to my liking and call it a custom?

It seems that it has become the custom of the majority of the cue makers to label every cue as a custom cue. Did the person actually come into the shop and have the cue specifically build to there specification? I'm talking about a fitting here. Not just some nice woods that happen to be "x" weight and the standard 58" long.

The custom is that every cue has got to come Out of the shop being the standard 58" long. I'm sorry but this just does not seem right to me. Every pool player out there has a different height, wingspan and setup on the table. So how can the standard 58" cue really be concidered a "Custom"? Seems pretty standard to me.

I quess what I am trying to get at is there needs to be more interaction between the cuemaker and the buyer in order to really make the cue fit the player, and not the player fit the cue. Sure we all learned on the standard of the time in which we started playing and have adapted our strokes to accommodate said "standard". But is this really what is best for us to accelerate our game to the best of our abilities?

Go and purchase a "custom "set of golf clubs sometime and watch how a qualified builder makes and sets the clubs to your own personal prefrence, swing speed, height, lie, loft...ect. The clubs come out "Fitted" to you. And I think this is just some of the nomenclature that is lacking in "Custom" cues.

"Custom Fitted" needs to be a term that is more prominent in my opinion. Make the cue maker step out of his comfort zone and actually make you a "Custom Fitted" cue. Are you 6'4" and still using a 58" cue? Then there may be ways to open up your stroke and actually feel comfortable. There are many ways to make a cue fit you, but sticking to the same old "standard" will probably net you the standard results. Everybody seems to be looking for the "Holy Grail" of cues. Well how will you know what is the Grail for you if it doesn't fit?

The "One offs" are another hole in the vocabulary of the pool player. Just because it is a "One off" does not necessarily make it a custom cue. If it was not built for a specific person and fitted then how could it be custom?

I don't even want to get started on "Monster" hitting cues.

Don't fall into the custom of "Custom Cues", demand something that is truly custom for you. Your game will love you for it.

Just some food for thought

Aloha
 
according to your definition, even if a player had a cue maker build a cue to the player's specs and the player decides to sell, then he can't advertise his cue as a custom?

wow. pretty stiff. why should anyone care how a cue is labeled? cue maker, condition, and history and how ever the cue presents itself (looks, length, tip, pin and so forth)?
 
Please let us know how we are supposed to think and speak. I am sure we'll all follow your lead.

Can you do something about "sneaky pete"?
 
To me, a custom cue is a cue built (made) by hand to the design specifications of the customer. Wood types, colors, patterns, etc.
Production cues are generally the same thing, only different. :)
 
It is well-established that anything, not just pool cues, that is one-of-a-kind or made in extremely low numbers is "custom made".

Your point that a cuemaker should possess knowledge of how, and whether, to advise a player what should be the precise characteristics of a cue for that person could be debated on many levels. The first would be determining that criteria, the second creating a uniform system for applying that criteria, the third educating players and qualifying cuemakers to apply that criteria.

One question that would exist both before and after the points in paragraph two is whether for all practical purposes it would any difference?
 
Yeah, ship has sailed on this one, just get used to how the word is used and learn to live with it. It's not only a pool thing, it happens in all sorts of things. When an item is made in small quantities by a small shop and the ability to do a customized version is available, then anything coming out of there will be called custom.

I'm into knives as well and custom knives are very commonly built without input fom the buyer...maker builds them and takes them to knife shows. They're still called custom knives. I bought one like that and I have another on order that I have spacified exactly how I want it. I will call both custom knives.

Pool isn't like golf, there aren't ways to take physical measurements and fit a cue to a person. It's just personal preference and what one wants, likes, and is used to playing with.
 
So if I pick up a predator roadline.. Say I change the tip, taper, grip and weight? Is it not now a custom cue since it's been customized?
 
I suppose I could measure every customer and make every cue a different length or taper or balance. Then again maybe I shouldnt build 5 or 10 cues at one time....that might be production...NO, thats economy of motion. I suppose, also, that all the time spent imroving my construction methods and arriving at a formula that works for my cues was a waste of time? Refer to the first sentance..... I'm not going to waste anymore time here.
 
pdcue said:
Any cue that is not produced in a 'production' facility.

Next.

Dale
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I produce cues, Schon produces cues. Or are you saying "mass" produce. And as far as a facility, I guess we both have those. Got to make them some where.

Aloha

Edit: What would be your definition of " Mass" in cue building? More then one?
 
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thintowin said:
according to your definition, even if a player had a cue maker build a cue to the player's specs and the player decides to sell, then he can't advertise his cue as a custom?

wow. pretty stiff. why should anyone care how a cue is labeled? cue maker, condition, and history and how ever the cue presents itself (looks, length, tip, pin and so forth)?
Click to expand...

The definition is what I would like to see established. Maybe an industry standard as such. You can sell your cue how ever you like, there are plenty Wally World cues out there that are labeled as "Custom" just to up their selling price and appeal.

Aloha
 
Type79 said:
It is well-established that anything, not just pool cues, that is one-of-a-kind or made in extremely low numbers is "custom made".

Your point that a cuemaker should possess knowledge of how, and whether, to advise a player what should be the precise characteristics of a cue for that person could be debated on many levels. The first would be determining that criteria, the second creating a uniform system for applying that criteria, the third educating players and qualifying cuemakers to apply that criteria.

One question that would exist both before and after the points in paragraph two is whether for all practical purposes it would any difference?
Click to expand...

Good points, the "Custom Cue maker" should posses the knowledge to help accelerate their customers game, or even have the experienced instructors do a fitting for their students so they would know what fits them best. Then the student would be armed with said knowledge before they actually spend their money on something that does not fit them. It could definitely change their game.

I do believe it would make a big difference. I think more cues would fit their owners, instead of their owners fitting their cues.

Aloha
 
A custom cue is a cue that was not started prior to the customer specifying each and every detail of the finished product.

If the cue started production prior to you ordering it, it is not custom.
 
slide13 said:
Yeah, ship has sailed on this one, just get used to how the word is used and learn to live with it. It's not only a pool thing, it happens in all sorts of things. When an item is made in small quantities by a small shop and the ability to do a customized version is available, then anything coming out of there will be called custom.

I'm into knives as well and custom knives are very commonly built without input fom the buyer...maker builds them and takes them to knife shows. They're still called custom knives. I bought one like that and I have another on order that I have spacified exactly how I want it. I will call both custom knives.

Pool isn't like golf, there aren't ways to take physical measurements and fit a cue to a person. It's just personal preference and what one wants, likes, and is used to playing with.
Click to expand...

So limited small quantities would qualifiy as a "Custom" then. I agree that the ship has sailed, but the course of the perverbial ship can be changed. There is no reason why pool players can't demand more from thier equipment and I think fitting properly is more important then looking good.

There are plenty of ways to take physical measurements to fit a cue. Watch any person play some, and practice this is one way. Take a measurement on their wing span, height. If they are an established player then it is pretty easy to do. If it is a begginer then the standard length is a good starting point. How does the player set up and address the ball. How high is the chin off the cue. How wide of a stance do they have. Let them hit with different lengths of cues with different weights, shaft lengths, tapers, ect. and see what works best for them, what feels right.

You are right it is a personal preference, and why should I get "used" to playing with something that does not fit, when my game could suffer the consequences.

Aloha
 
j_zippel said:
So if I pick up a predator roadline.. Say I change the tip, taper, grip and weight? Is it not now a custom cue since it's been customized?
Click to expand...

Good question. Do you feel it is custom for you? Would you label it as "Custom" if you decided to sell it? Maybe someone could answer your question for us both.

Aloha
 
Russell Cues said:
I suppose I could measure every customer and make every cue a different length or taper or balance. Then again maybe I shouldnt build 5 or 10 cues at one time....that might be production...NO, thats economy of motion. I suppose, also, that all the time spent imroving my construction methods and arriving at a formula that works for my cues was a waste of time? Refer to the first sentance..... I'm not going to waste anymore time here.
Click to expand...

I am sorry you see this as a waste of time. It would be great to have a "Custom Cue" Makers opinion on this subject. I understand that cue makers spend plenty of time and money figuring out the specific parameters into which they want their cues to fall. Set up their CNC to do the job and waste a lot of wood developing their SOP.(standard operating procedure). But that standard is kinda the rub here. Most cue makers out there make very beautiful "Art cues" " Limited cues" and small production runs to increase the profit potential. They get so stuck in their own little bubble that they forget that a cue is made to play pool. Why not give the customer the best they can get instead of the standard?

Those cues are still "x" length and not built to any specific customers spec. Yes it is nice you changed the wood on this particular cue, and it is different from the other ones in the batch, but wouldn't this be a "one of a kind" if is was not built outside your standard parameters? Or how about building a cue one at a time, if it was not built custom fitted to the player and was just a standard length, is it still a custom? Or is it an "Art Cue" that will sit around and never see chalk, waiting on the day it will get a chance to play also?

" Put me in Coach, I'm ready to Play". Now I got that song stuck in my head.

But the big picture here is the cue maker could enhance the game of pool, by measuring out those players/customers. By offering this kind of customer service I think their reputation and profitability would increase in the process.

Good luck with your Produ... I mean "Economy of motion"

Aloha
 
Albatross Cues said:
I am sorry you see this as a waste of time. It would be great to have a "Custom Cue" Makers opinion on this subject. I understand that cue makers spend plenty of time and money figuring out the specific parameters into which they want their cues to fall. Set up their CNC to do the job and waste a lot of wood developing their SOP.(standard operating procedure). But that standard is kinda the rub here. Most cue makers out there make very beautiful "Art cues" " Limited cues" and small production runs to increase the profit potential. They get so stuck in their own little bubble that they forget that a cue is made to play pool. Why not give the customer the best they can get instead of the standard?

Those cues are still "x" length and not built to any specific customers spec. Yes it is nice you changed the wood on this particular cue, and it is different from the other ones in the batch, but wouldn't this be a "one of a kind" if is was not built outside your standard parameters? Or how about building a cue one at a time, if it was not built custom fitted to the player and was just a standard length, is it still a custom? Or is it an "Art Cue" that will sit around and never see chalk, waiting on the day it will get a chance to play also?

" Put me in Coach, I'm ready to Play". Now I got that song stuck in my head.

But the big picture here is the cue maker could enhance the game of pool, by measuring out those players/customers. By offering this kind of customer service I think their reputation and profitability would increase in the process.

Good luck with your Produ... I mean "Economy of motion"

Aloha
Click to expand...

I do build cues that have design changes ie: length, taper, weight/balance. All the "standardization", as you call it, makes each of us custom cue makers cues hit/feel differently. I dont have a cnc, I dont build "museum" or "art" cues, its not MY style, but hats off to those that can. I make cues for players to be played with, period. Im sorry if I'm not making it known to you that I build cues to customer specs not just "standardized" cookie cutter cues, according to your description.
Good Day
 
Interesting thoughts. I've been playing this game for over 50 years and never gave a cue over 150 bucks or so any thought. :)

IMO a custom cue is a cue not made in a high production factory that the buyer has to pay a lot of money for before he ever sees it, let alone gets to try it. Then .... with luck, he gets used to it and likes it.

In my wildest dreams, I couldn't think of paying a lot of money for a playing cue that I never played with before buying it just so I can brag that I have a custom cue.

Lots of guys like their custom cues because they paid a lot for it and they have no choice but to like it. After all, it must be something special if it cost 2 grand. Oh, and it even gets more special the longer you have to wait for it and the more you have to call and beg for it I think.

Now some people think having a custom cue makes them play better, and it they really believe that, then there may be some odd kind of value there that is real to them.

Now collector cues, while not my cup of tea, make much more sense to me. While still custom cues, the purpose of paying for them is different.

Investing in a piece of art they enjoy is an entirely different thing than blindly spending a ton of money you can barely afford on a cue to play with that they never even tried. But ... that's just how I see it.

Of course the other thing is, those fortunate enough to have piles of money to piss away can just buy these things on a lark.
 
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