CTE and BHE, a thought
- Thread starter mohrt
- Start date
Well, you didn't address my comments or question, but maybe it was unclear.
Thanks anyway.
pj
chgo
The reverse of pivoting to centerball is pivoting from centerball - which is how BHE is done.
pj
chgo
You ask why not learn visuals that take you directly to the shot line. If there were, I'm sure they would be the better choice. But there really isn't anything. Your best bet is akin to ghost ball, where you move onto an invisible point, or an overlap estimation based on millions of shots.
With CTE you use the same set of visuals and pivots to arrive at the shot line in a much more succinct manner than estimating overlaps. These specific visuals are always found at this shift off the shot line. As Stan states, they were never meant to be. I think what that means is, they were found quite by accident some time ago by Hal.
It's a different arc for one and secondly the cue angles are different, but thanks for playing.
I'll take a shot at it. The manual pivot in CTE is a two step process that moves the cue stick from the CTE Line around the circumference of the CB to the shot line. I think many forget to describe the first step which is actually FHE where you use the bridge to develop the half tip offset then BHE to realign the cue to CCB.
The pro1 visuals (for me at least) are once I find the CTE Line, I focus on CCB and determine whether the shot requires a pivot from the left or pivot from the right. Then focus on the point 1/2 tip from CCB (left or right) that now becomes CCB as I either drop into the shot, or sweep into the shot.
This is the reality of it. You have to experience the perceptions for yourself to fully understand them. Kind of like explaining how to ride a bike, vs just doing it until you get it.
No, I don't. And experiencing them doesn't mean you understand them, as CTE users demonstrate constantly. No offense meant; just a fact.
pj
chgo
acronyms
I must be the only one who doesn't know what cce and ccb stand for. BHE, FHE, TOI and parallel shift I am familiar with.
It seems like parallel shifting, back hand only, front hand only or a little of both just about cover the possibilities unless you use TOI which is a small parallel shift and may or may not be adjusted with some BHE. sighhh
It does get complicated but I DO LOVE IT ALL. I am a technical player, so this stuff all makes sense to me and helps me, I just need the CCE and CCB part defined.
A quick note on BHE, it is more complicated than bridge length. Shot length, how hard you hit, top and bottom spin all play a role. That is why CJ uses a constant (or at least pretty constant) speed. BHE doesn't work for me on soft short shots which need almost no correction, even with a parallel shift, but works great on longer firmer hit shots.
I must be the only one who doesn't know what cce and ccb stand for. BHE, FHE, TOI and parallel shift I am familiar with.
It seems like parallel shifting, back hand only, front hand only or a little of both just about cover the possibilities unless you use TOI which is a small parallel shift and may or may not be adjusted with some BHE. sighhh
It does get complicated but I DO LOVE IT ALL. I am a technical player, so this stuff all makes sense to me and helps me, I just need the CCE and CCB part defined.
A quick note on BHE, it is more complicated than bridge length. Shot length, how hard you hit, top and bottom spin all play a role. That is why CJ uses a constant (or at least pretty constant) speed. BHE doesn't work for me on soft short shots which need almost no correction, even with a parallel shift, but works great on longer firmer hit shots.
CCB is "center cue ball". CTE is "center to edge" (CB to OB). I don't know what CCE might be.
pj
chgo
If you get into the offset and see the perceptions, they will make better sense. Explanations only go so far. Everything you need had been explained.
CTE and its perceptions/visuals have always made perfect sense to me - just not the same sense they make to you.
The sense it makes to me is...
Learning to recognize aiming perceptions/visuals through practice and familiarization is exactly the same way that all aiming is done, and CTE is just one of many "custom user interfaces" for that same old activity accomplished the same old way.
CTE's custom interface comes with some interesting features (fractional "triangulation", psr choreography) and advertising (no feel!, aiming from another dimension!), and it's apparently an effective aiming interface for its audience, but it's only cosmetically different from others.
pj
chgo
Thanks.
What is special about CTE? It just sounds like a traditional half ball hit. Does someone have an aiming system based on that like CJ does with his TOI? He aims CTE then adds that TOI to achieve angles greater than a half ball hit.
The way I saw these acronyms used it was as though they referred to a common aiming system of some sort.
What is special about CTE? It just sounds like a traditional half ball hit. Does someone have an aiming system based on that like CJ does with his TOI? He aims CTE then adds that TOI to achieve angles greater than a half ball hit.
The way I saw these acronyms used it was as though they referred to a common aiming system of some sort.
It may come across that way for someone merely watching from a distance. However there are some major differences. For one, the routine is very mechanical on a conscious level, but we know our perception does most of the work. And two, the little detail about taking you to pockets. If I throw out two balls on the table and mark them for resetting, I can go through all the visuals and pivots and find tracks to each pocket. I don't have to think about pockets I just execute the visuals. This is not a coincidence. This is why it is still very effective with curtains. No other system works like this.
You say "CTEL perception" here. But wasn't Stan talking about the pre-pivot alignment of the cue stick? Didn't he say that, when one is down in full stance, the cue should point at the OB edge for 30° perceptions or "one tick" past the outside OB quarter for 15° perceptions?
In the video, Stan was using this to "tweak" the alignment after performing the normal CTE steps to get into pre-pivot position. But it leads me to ask whether it means one can essentially dismiss entirely with acquiring the visuals, determining the fixed CB, etc. Can one just go directly to the pre-pivot alignment by simply getting into the stance with the cue one-half tip inside or outside of the CB's center (depending on the cut needed) and pointing a tick beyond the OB quarter (for 15°-perception shots) or at the OB edge (for 30°-perception shots) -- then pivot and shoot.
I'll have to watch that video again.
Does it follow that if after the pivot to CCB, one can observe were the CCB is aimed at relative to the OB as well as where the CBE is lined up with relative to the OB and just drop down on the shot at hand?
Be well.
When there is more than a foot between CB and OB, bridging at the effective pivot point for that shot speed becomes crucial.
It is claimed that CTE methods takes a player to a line for a slight overcut, hence a firm stun or medium speed natural follow shot, which have about the same amount of CIT (throw) will take the OB to center pocket.
Having played with BHE for around 10 years, I've chosen the slight overcut alignment to be the best starting aim point, around which I make adjustments to, on occasions where my choice of shot has a different throw component.
Hence, I think CTE users can adapt well to BHE, but they'll need to adjust their bridge length as required... perhaps post pivot to center, once they have established the aim line. This allows the different angle Spiderweb mentions.
I try to choose shots that have the same throw component, such that adjustments are minimal. A couple of common adjustments are required as follows:
1. Nearly straight shot with follow and IE to double the CB out of the corner 2 rails. The slower the shot, the more I have to aim to overcut the shot. I typically aim at the overcut jaw pre-pivot and the SIT throws the OB to center pocket.
2. On cut shots with draw and 1/2 to 1 tip OE, as often required when the OB sits near to a rail. On these I aim for a slight undercut and allow the SIT to throw the OB wider onto the pot line.
Last edited: