Proof that fundamentals aren't important.

Danger S Dan said:
If you practice enough, you will develop your own " norms ". The key is that when he makes contact, his cue is in the correct position. Look at Fyryk on the golf tour. You cant copy his swing. The key is at the point of contact, the club head is in the correct position and his body is balanced. Practice and create your own style.
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I heard a pro teacher say it doesn't matter how you take the club back as long as you come down and hit the ball "square" For some the best route to that is pretty funky but once you develop that 'feel' especially if it is natural for you you are 3/4 home if not more. Same thing in pool.

PS- i never got it in pool-ever!
 
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If you are going to post a match video of a player not using "textbook" fundamentals as your proof that fundamentals aren't important. Make sure that player actually wins the match.
 
BeiberLvr said:
If you are going to post a match video of a player not using "textbook" fundamentals as your proof that fundamentals aren't important. Make sure that player actually wins the match.
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I think his 30 year record prior to that match might speak some but hey-that's just me.
 
BeiberLvr said:
If you are going to post a match video of a player not using "textbook" fundamentals as your proof that fundamentals aren't important. Make sure that player actually wins the match.
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I think we can all agree that BCA Hall of Famer Bustamante has the credentials. But with that said, if Django did have better fundamentals then he might even have had a higher potential which is scary.
 
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Though Efren's stroke has changed over the years, I will never forget seeing him play at the Red's tourney playing under the name of Cesar Morales. I believe it was 1984

I was probably 10 feet away from the table during a few of his matches.

I had never seen what I call a "flying elbow" that bad in my life. His elbow was all over the place. In and out, up and down in a circular motion. I wondered how the guy could even hit the cue ball like that.

I grew up in a cut throat pool enviroment in the early 60's where no one showed you anything as far as fundamentals, stroke, or shot selection as many good players guarded their knowledge of game which could affect their wallet in the long run.

Probably why I have a chicken wing grip and a stroke that looks like an unfolding lawnchair to this day! LOL

I'm sure it was like that in the Phillipines when Busti and Efren were coming up through the ranks and trying to put food on the table. The school of hard knocks!

All I know is it works for them! I'd play standing on my head if I could play like either of them! LOL


Stones
 
Here's what every one of you missed in this thread...Joey was being sarcastic! LMAO He is one of the biggest proponents of solid fundamentals in S CA, and has some pretty solid fundamentals of his own. He was only pointing out that it is possible, at pool's highest levels, to have nontraditional fundamentals and still excel in performance. However, for the huge majority of us mortals, an accurate and repeatable stroke is the key to improvement. :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Here's what every one of you missed in this thread...Joey was being sarcastic! LMAO He is one of the biggest proponents of solid fundamentals in S CA, and has some pretty solid fundamentals of his own. He was only pointing out that it is possible, at pool's highest levels, to have nontraditional fundamentals and still excel in performance. However, for the huge majority of us mortals, an accurate and repeatable stroke is the key to improvement. :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Danny Dileberto said it best during a Busti match.
" Kids , close your eyes. This is not the way you should stroke." :grin-square:
What's odd about the second and third generation of Filipino invaders is, a lot of them have textbook stroking form now.
Dennis, Manalo, Pagulayan and Geronimo among them.
 
Exactly! What works for him, isn't a good model for the rest of us. For most of us, road to progress starts with good fundamentals. I think the debate for some of us with bad habits, and bad form is how far we're into hit a million balls to start over again, or muscle through.


Jaden said:
No what that shows is that for HIM, a high level of play is possible with poor fundamentals, you can't even come close to using that as evidence that fundamentals are not important.

Jaden
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JoeyInCali said:
https://youtu.be/jixH8DSbQbE?t=1373
Off-line elbow and elbow drop. :eek:
Busti style. :D
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LOL you confuse stroke style with the ability to hit a ball straight. Can you hit with pinpoint accuracy anywhere on a target you choose? Want to proove it? Set up some straight in shots 3 to 4 diamonds apart and shoot them in with authority with zero spin or drift left/right/forward/back. If you can't do this consistantly you have terrible fundamentals.
 
JoeyInCali said:
https://youtu.be/jixH8DSbQbE?t=1373
Off-line elbow and elbow drop. :eek:
Busti style. :D
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Not only that but neither of them seem to be using LD shafts.
You can sometimes see that long ferrule.
How can they possibly do that?????
Playing a game of pool and not use LD shafts??
To top it of those cues might be under couple of hundred bucks each.....:eek:
They might even be using the tip that came on the cue when they bought them.......YIKES!!!!!
 
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Filipino players like Django, Luat etc have the same stroke. They learn pool at a young age, just about when they can see the pool table felt. In that regards, they shoot with arms swinging sideways because of their height, and to compensate to at least level the cue to the table. They can't even jack up or do jump shots at this age. Most of the times they carry empty soda tray (cause we mainly use bottles in PI) to step on just to compensate their height and see the shot. To cut the story short, they have adapted and brought their stroke and "fundamentals" up to now.
 
LD shafts

9Ballr said:
Not only that but neither of them seem to be using LD shafts.
You can sometimes see that long ferrule.
How can they possibly do that?????
Playing a game of pool and not use LD shafts??
To top it of those cues might be under couple of hundred bucks each.....:eek:
They might even be using the tip that came on the cue when they bought them.......YIKES!!!!!
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LOL... Baseth is actually using a Mezz EC7-W6 with at least a WX700. For his breaker, he's using PB PRO w/ the H shaft. I'm sure his equipment is fairly new becoz when he played Carlo on the same table he was using a different player & breaker which I didn't recognize. Busti's player on the other hand doesn't look like his usual shooting cue or at least one of his regular shooting cues.

Maybe about 15 years ago I think it would be a definite non-LD shaft as these imported brands are very expensive w/ very limited supply because there wasn't enough demand and brand awareness at that time. I even remember seeing a Predator BK break cue at a store in a high end mall that sold pool equipment and it's price was at least equivalent to $900😱
 
JoeyInCali said:
https://youtu.be/jixH8DSbQbE?t=1373
Off-line elbow and elbow drop. :eek:
Busti style. :D
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Robert Byrne wrote about this basically saying that when the tip contacts the cue ball all that needs to be done is done. So peoples playing styles and habits as long as they are making balls is really not so much of a deal.

I think that fundamental truisms promote a straight stroke and a good view of the shot and this is a help.
 
There is an older (80+) local black man that has no known fundamentals and still shoots the lights out when he's on.
He doesn't bend over, shoots with body english, doesn't aim. just walks up and bang.
 
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