What would you have done differently?

[Tramp Steamer]

There are probably 1000 "normal" golf swings for every one that is goofy like Furyks on (or was on) the golf tour. So, is it in your opinion, that fundamentals shouldn't be taught for the 999 because there's 1 person whom it's not correct for?
Of course there isn't a correct set of fundamentals for 100% of people, but the idea that it can't be useful for a vast majority is incorrect, IMO.

Furyk's "goofy" golf swing will make him more money in a year than you'll see in a lifetime.
Fundamentals (basic pool play) does not have to be taught by an instructor to anyone. No one that I play with has ever had an hours worth of structured instruction, and we are all good players. Likewise, the two pro level players in my area did not start their careers with lessons. Their lessons came from watching, doing, and endless hours in a pool hall.
If you feel that the only way for you to get on the fast track to playing pool is to spend money on pool lessons, then be my guest. The only problem is there is no fast track.

 

[Spimp13]

I probably would have not started playing pool and found a different more active game to jump into. Playing pool plus a desk job has contributed to me having a messed up back and neck that are both unfixable. It sucks because I enjoy pool so I will continue to play it even with these issues since they are unfixable.

 

[Drop The Rock]

Hello everyone,

I am a novice at everything related to billiards and am loving the game, but I am also seriously having a lot of difficulty finding general consensus information. It's all over the place and I don't quite know where to look. I watched videos on YouTube, read what I could on the web and very recently got an instructor that will be able to give me about 1 lesson per week.

I thought it might be a good idea to ask you guys : what would you have differently if you could go back to the start line?

Instructors can hurt some times more than help, especially if they try to force you do something your body isn't used to doing. Make sure your "instructor" is reputable and not just some guy at the poolhall.

When I first started playing I had tight grip on the cue. The sooner you get out of this habit the better.

Now, play with a house cue for a while you research and pick out a cue, make sure you are happy with the way it looks and that it is a recommended or quality brand. Predator, OB, Mezz, Tiger, or custom. Stick with that cue forever and if you decide that you love the shaft, you can buy cues with the same shaft. Don't play with a shaft that is under 12.5mm. Also don't buy the shaft with the lowest deflection because it doesn't matter.

Play in tournaments. In between those tournaments take 15 balls and spread them around the table try and make all of them at a nice easy speed, even from distance. Shots you miss are the shots you now shoot OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

Stay along the vertical axis of the cue ball.

Record your practice sessions! Pick a pro with sound fundamentals and "borrow" from his.

Play 9/10 Ball and learn one pocket.

 

[jojopiff]

Here's what I said

There are probably 1000 "normal" golf swings for every one that is goofy like Furyks on (or was on) the golf tour. So, is it in your opinion, that fundamentals shouldn't be taught for the 999 because there's 1 person whom it's not correct for?

Of course there isn't a correct set of fundamentals for 100% of people, but the idea that it can't be useful for a vast majority is incorrect, IMO.

Furyk's "goofy" golf swing will make him more money in a year than you'll see in a lifetime.
Fundamentals (basic pool play) does not have to be taught by an instructor to anyone. No one that I play with has ever had an hours worth of structured instruction, and we are all good players. Likewise, the two pro level players in my area did not start their careers with lessons. Their lessons came from watching, doing, and endless hours in a pool hall.
If you feel that the only way for you to get on the fast track to playing pool is to spend money on pool lessons, then be my guest. The only problem is there is no fast track.

You said
Furyk's "goofy" golf swing will make him more money in a year than you'll see in a lifetime.
I never said his "goofy" swing was ineffective. I've watched my fair share of golf and Furyk was a contender for many years in most any tourney he entered. I'll assume your statement about finances is an uniformed dig at me to which you think that because he makes more money than me, that then, my opinion is incorrect.

Fundamentals (basic pool play) does not have to be taught by an instructor to anyone. No one that I play with has ever had an hours worth of structured instruction, and we are all good players. Likewise, the two pro level players in my area did not start their careers with lessons. Their lessons came from watching, doing, and endless hours in a pool hall.
Never said fundamentals HAS to be taught. The OP is "what would you have done differently". I didn't take lessons and I've been playing 13 years (to which, I too, have become a good player) and I believe that had I taken lessons early on, I would have shortened the amount of time it took for me to be, what I consider, a good player. I never said that if you don't get lessons you can't become good or a pro.

So your whole retort to me, is based on things I didn't say. Now, if you'd like to actually answer the question I asked (in bold above in my first post) then I'll be happy to have a civil conversation in which we can both make our cases and hopefully come away with a better appreciation of the other person's perspective, I'll be happy to do that. If you want to twist and turn my words into things that fit into what you believe, then I'll kindly not engage you again.

 

[Drop The Rock]

also

Hang out with the best players in the room who are also the nicest and who are fairly humble. I have learned more from Manny Chau, Ernesto Bayau and my friend Billy than any video, book, or instructor. A big part of this is because I am an auditory learner and not visual so I do much better when people tell me what to do rather than show me. Playing lessons become a huge advantage for me though so I constantly ask those guys questions.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Here's what I said
You said
Furyk's "goofy" golf swing will make him more money in a year than you'll see in a lifetime.
I never said his "goofy" swing was ineffective. I've watched my fair share of golf and Furyk was a contender for many years in most any tourney he entered. I'll assume your statement about finances is an uniformed dig at me to which you think that because he makes more money than me, that then, my opinion is incorrect.
Fundamentals (basic pool play) does not have to be taught by an instructor to anyone. No one that I play with has ever had an hours worth of structured instruction, and we are all good players. Likewise, the two pro level players in my area did not start their careers with lessons. Their lessons came from watching, doing, and endless hours in a pool hall.
Never said fundamentals HAS to be taught. The OP is "what would you have done differently". I didn't take lessons and I've been playing 13 years (to which, I too, have become a good player) and I believe that had I taken lessons early on, I would have shortened the amount of time it took for me to be, what I consider, a good player. I never said that if you don't get lessons you can't become good or a pro.
So your whole retort to me, is based on things I didn't say. Now, if you'd like to actually answer the question I asked (in bold above in my first post) then I'll be happy to have a civil conversation in which we can both make our cases and hopefully come away with a better appreciation of the other person's perspective, I'll be happy to do that. If you want to twist and turn my words into things that fit into what you believe, then I'll kindly not engage you again.

My statement regarding your finances was based upon my belief that if you were as wealthy as Mr. Furyk, then you, in all likely-hood, wouldn't be hanging around this forum talking about crap that in the great scheme of things wouldn't amount to a plugged nickle.
As for twisting your words around, get used to it. This is a pool forum. Each one of us is right, and everyone else is wrong.

 

[DAVE_M]

If I could go back, I would have never played in bars.

 

[336Robin]

Youre absolutely right

That's a good question. One way is to get a range of advice and try to test which suggestions are good and which are trash.

A good instructor can suggest those tests along with the instruction for at least some some parts of the instruction. Systems of various kinds are relatively easy to test, usually. It helps to develop a deeper understanding of what happens physically on the table.

It is a mistake for a student to blindly accept what an instructor says. They have to figure out how they can use a particular suggestion and whether it is actually right. Sometimes it takes a while to be able to do that. Sometimes all it takes is asking, "Why does that work that way?"

You are absolutely right and you should ask questions. If there is not going to be a conclusion that provides a consistent basis from which to continue progress and it ends with.....well that is something you have to figure out on your own.. beware.

I sold a book to a fellow who is busy professionally and he came to me at the pool room and wanted me to summize it for him and I did and he asked questions about it and I answered them and told him why it worked the way it did and he is probably in terms of the league system ratings a 3 to a 4 in skill level. I have no problem with a customer asking questions of my material and I play well with it.

I think more damage is done to a players game when there isn't an end to the questions because there should be answers to each of them and they should be concrete and understandable. If a player has doubts it would be real easy for him to say...ah I don't think so and then go in another direction many times when he should have stuck with it. If its not solid there wont be enough answers to fix the problems it brings up.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but re: Furyk's swing and instruction Jim Furyk has had formal instruction from an early age. His father was a head PGA golf professional at the country club in PA where Jim grew up, and has been Jim's instructor his entire life.

Furyk is probably the exception that proves the rule considering 99 percent of the other swings on Tour are pretty cookie cutter, and I would doubt he would tell anyone else that his is the right thing to emulate. The point is that getting good instruction (in pool or golf) isn't an either or choice when it comes to "do everything exactly like this" or "figure out your own way". It can be a little bit of both, and really shorten the learning curve and improve consistency along the way..

 

[Bbutler]

I would:
1. Get lessons - Have a correct, repeatable stroke. Fundamentals are priceless.
2. NO ENGLISH - I spin the ball all over the darn table. Trying to rectify now but it's tough. Obviously at some point you'll get to using english, but stay away as long as possible.
3. Play on the big table - I played strictly bar box for the first 8 years or so and it hides flaws.
4. Play with better players, ALWAYS - If you're playing league, be the worst person on the team. And once you're not, get on a new team where you are. If you gamble, find a better player who will play you cheap (or free) and take no spot.
5. Hit balls, hit balls, hit balls - Then hit more balls.
6. Play in different places - For me, I get annoyed when I play somewhere the table is filthy, the balls are dirty and different brands, and it's humid. Get to where you can play on any equipment, in any setting. Balls bank different(as well as cue ball angles) on different tables and equipment and humidity.

Pretty solid advice for the most part, but I disagree with point #2 quite strongly. As you learning I think you should hit the balls hard and play as much spin as you can because these are important skills to master early on. You can always back off on the power and spin later once your skills develop but you always want to be able to do it when needed.

 

[TCo]

Instructors

Regardless of if we had the formality of purchasing time with an instructor, we likely all had an instructor in the form of a brother, dad, uncle, grandfather, etc to begin.

Formal instruction to point you in the right direction is a good thing but what works for you is important and could prevent a very bad habit form forming.

No matter how goofy the golf swing is, JF's is 100% repeatable and comes through square at contact. So if you're a "side-winder" or an "elbow dropper", make sure you're having someone watch you and point out pro/con of what you're doing.

I agree with an earlier post, strive to play with people that are better than you. Keep climbing. Find someone else you can learn with too.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Jeez Louise, get a damn lesson from a pool instructor already. Get two, or three. Put the man up in your guest room for a couple of weeks. You'll forget what you were given, in a few days, anyway.
Why don't one of you take a poll of professional level players and let's just see how many started their careers with paid formal instruction. And please, no smart ass replies about the Shuffets.

 

[ScottK]

There is so much to dispute in this thread I'm unable to bring myself to quote it all for debate.
Rest assured this is the best advice you've gotten here:

An even more important piece of advice: this is a public forum full of people with more ego than expertise - be very selective about the advice you take away from here.

 

[gunzby]

I would go to an instructor

 

[Straightpool_99]

If I personally was to start over, I'd have stuck with snooker for the first 5 years or so, and played lots of drills.

Some people say to get a coach/instructor, and I say that is a great idea IF:

1. That person knows how to play himself. I've become very suspicious towards people who have strong opinions on fundamentals that don't play the game at an A or at the very least strong B level (unless old and past his prime). Too much bs floating around here. Here is one thing you can ask your instructor to do: Set up a straight draw shot with at least 4 diamonds distance or more on a tight 9 footer between the cueball and object ball. Make sure they are close to the side rail. Then ask him to make a drawshot, making the ball and having the cueball go back to the short rail and bounce out a bit. Unless he can do this with a smooth stroke and no effort, stay away! This is the absolute minimum of stroke you need to have to play at the minimum proficient level, if he can't, how can he teach you to? Be aware that this by no means guarantees that the guy knows his stuff, just that he at least has a half decent stroke. Nothing more.

2. That person is available for lessons at a later time, preferably one that is local to you. That way you can get coaching when you need it. If you get serious adjustments to your fundamentals it is IMPERATIVE that you get them checked up on at a later time.

3. That person has a reasonable price for his services. You are going to need at least 5 or 6 lessons to get your fundamentals under control (spread out over a couple of months), IMO. There is a time and a place for the very best instructors. I belive that time is a bit later in a players development, but again: NO people that can't demonstrate what he teaches perfectly! If only an expensive instructor fits that description, then so be it.

4. Videos should be for later viewing. Forget watching instructionals at first, unless you can't get coaching. Lots of instructional videos have stupid and wrong advice in them, unless you are good enough to tell, stay away! Trust your coach completely in the beginning (if you pick the right one you should be able to). You should of course watch matches for entertainment and learn from pattern play etc, but forget learning fundamentals from videos, unless there is no other option available. Eat Ramen for a month if that's what it takes to get lessons!

5. NO bs aiming systems. If you must go that way, wait until your stroke is fairly good. Be warned that pivot systems can, and probably will mess with your alignment. Adjustments will be needed.

6. Play the best caliber of player available, but don't waste money on gambling. Save all you can for lessons. Gambling is for a later time. Tournaments are good enough. Once you can beat most people locally, you may proceed to gamble, if you absolutely have to. Getting hustled by people hiding their speed etc, is not the best investment of your time and money.