Why don't cuemakers do this? More to the point why don't we let them?

DAVE_M said:
Buy from reputable manufacturers and reputable dealers, and you will have nothing to worry about. The same goes for cues. There are plenty of fake cues out there these days.

BTW, any knockoff for $12 is going to be crap. Fox Knives are made in Italy, Fox knockoffs are not. There are knockoffs and clones everywhere. I carry an Emerson CQC-8 everywhere, and it came from a reputable authorized Emerson dealer. I went to a local gun show a few months back and found a pretty good clone of a CQC-8, selling for $200+, and I walked away. There are cheap knockoffs and there are good knockoffs, but it's up to the consumer to know which is which and they decided if they want to buy a fake or not.
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Look at that late night knife show. They sell knives like 50 knives for $90.00
Knives have just become just cheap so anymore. I used to get the Buck clones from Pakistan. They cost me like $.90 and look like a $40.00 knife. I could sell them with my eyes closed. I must have sold a few thousand when I was on the road playing pool. Easy money.
 
I see it as a great thing for show promotors and collectors. People would show up to win the cue lottery. I just can't see where it would benefit a cuemaker that has more orders than they can build in their remaining life time.

On a bright note. I just inherited a forge and anvil. From my nephew, who decided knife making wasn't for him. I have a lifetime supply of scrap tool steel too. Might be time for a change of hobbies!

Larry
 
macguy said:
Look at that late night knife show. They sell knives like 50 knives for $90.00
Knives have just become just cheap so anymore. I used to get the Buck clones from Pakistan. They cost me like $.90 and look like a $40.00 knife. I could sell them with my eyes closed. I must have sold a few thousand when I was on the road playing pool. Easy money.
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I don't get what you are getting at... I find that you have a pretty piss poor character if you knowingly bought fakes to flip for a profit. Did you tell your costumers they were fakes? If you didn't, remind me never to do business with you.

That late night show you are talking about, sells knives that are made out of pot metal. If that's what you are in to, I don't think you even understand what a good quality knife is.
 
JCIN said:
Why is it some want to wax poetic about their idea of what a cuemaker should do/be in this thread? I really don't get it.
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Your original post was so different? You want cuemakers who have no need for taking orders or for quick profit on a couple cues to delay building backordered cues to create buzz and excitement for cue shows. How is this not waxing poetic for what you think a cuemaker should do or be?

Sorry I did not respond with what you wanted to hear in the way you wanted to hear it. Obviously, I didn’t get it.
 
DAVE_M said:
I don't get what you are getting at... I find that you have a pretty piss poor character if you knowingly bought fakes to flip for a profit. Did you tell your costumers they were fakes? If you didn't, remind me never to do business with you.

That late night show you are talking about, sells knives that are made out of pot metal. If that's what you are in to, I don't think you even understand what a good quality knife is.
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They were not fakes, they say made in Pakistan on them. They were just the popular Buck style with that brass that people used to like. They were very nice.

I used to get like $8.00 to $15.00 for them usually. I might ask maybe $20 and they of course would low ball me. After one or two counter offers it would sell.

I was always happy, I have a whole box of them in the RV. I forgot to mention I also had the leather belt cases that went with them that cost me like $.25. The fact that I could get them direct and what I paid is completely irrelevant.

I also sold cues on the road at the same time. I sold mostly Valley SP's. They cost me if I remember right about $7.00 when I bought them by the case direct from Valley. I would usually put on a better tip and polish up the cues and $20 to $35 was the price range I usually got.

I would be gone for like 2 weeks or so and come home with nothing left plus money I won playing. It was actually pretty lucrative.
 
DAVE_M said:
Hey Justin, I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but it's a real eye opener.

When was the last time you heard of custom cue makers collaborating with production cue makers? Other than Predator having "special edition" cues made by custom makers, I can't think of any time that a custom cue maker collaborated with a production maker.

Knife makers strive to get to that point in their career, where they have finally made it and have a collaboration knife out there. Look at Rick Hinderer and KAI (Kershaw & Zero Tolerance), Liong Mah and CRKT, and even Tuff Knives & Boker! We always say it in the knife community, buying a collaboration only makes me want a full custom.

How cool would it be, to be able to purchase an affordable Titlist, 26-1/2, or 360? It would only make the real deal that much more valuable.
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I have thought about the collab aspect. As others have stated it has kind of been done. The difference I think is that the selling point of the guys you cant get a cue from is the actual work itself and its quality. With knives its often design that makes a collab work. Like Hinderer with ZT and the 0560...that was the first way to get a knife of that shape, style without paying the crazy secondary prices of the day.

I dont think cues and knives work out in that way. Most cue design there really isnt much new. Points, dots, diamonds and whatnot. What sets the top guys off is the attention to detail in the work. A Mobley four point Hoppe cue is more beautiful than a lot of fully loaded cues from other people to me. Its the proportion, execution and attention to detail that raises a guy to the elite IMO and that is hard to translate to a collaboration I think.
 
Sealegs50 said:
Your original post was so different? You want cuemakers who have no need for taking orders or for quick profit on a couple cues to delay building backordered cues to create buzz and excitement for cue shows. How is this not waxing poetic for what you think a cuemaker should do or be?

Sorry I did not respond with what you wanted to hear in the way you wanted to hear it. Obviously, I didn’t get it.
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I agree. You did not get it.
 
63Kcode said:
I see it as a great thing for show promotors and collectors. People would show up to win the cue lottery. I just can't see where it would benefit a cuemaker that has more orders than they can build in their remaining life time.

On a bright note. I just inherited a forge and anvil. From my nephew, who decided knife making wasn't for him. I have a lifetime supply of scrap tool steel too. Might be time for a change of hobbies!

Larry
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With your background you'll be a natural at it. Forging knives is tons of fun and you have way more artistic freedom than you have with cues. I gotta get back into it soon. I have three nice anvils, a charcoal forge I made myself, and tons of tool steel. I have a couple pieces of Damascus that Jim Schmidt gave me, big enough to do a couple small folders. I also have a super nice burner for a gas forge that I have to get around to building soon. I have to get rid of a few nagging issues and then I'm free to play until I die. :)
 
63Kcode said:
I see it as a great thing for show promotors and collectors. People would show up to win the cue lottery. I just can't see where it would benefit a cuemaker that has more orders than they can build in their remaining life time.

On a bright note. I just inherited a forge and anvil. From my nephew, who decided knife making wasn't for him. I have a lifetime supply of scrap tool steel too. Might be time for a change of hobbies!

Larry
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Believe it or not a lot of the makers I know actually like pool and want it to improve and grow. I think some would participate to help the game and get some excitement going around pool and cues.

Good luck with your forging. I have watched a ton of videos on American bladesmiths and the Japanese sword makers. Its a fascinating field. I bet if you get into it you would do some interesting work.
 
What about the unintended consequence of having hundreds of potential buyers sitting on the sidelines and their wallets waiting to get their number drawn. I could see lots of buyers not buying a nice cue from the many builders that have been the lifeblood of the shows for years for fear they may win a chance to buy a Szamboti etc and won't have the money if they buy something earlier in the show that they like.

I think many of the builders that have been at the show and paid handsomely to display there for years would pack up and leave early or not come back in the future if buyers weren't buying for these reasons. Most pool players don't realize that it's the vendors that make shows and pool tournaments like SBE work.

Why would builder's you listed want to do this, most of the ones you have mentioned attend the show and deliver cues to people there. So they would have to pay for a booth, be there for the whole show and work a booth for the whole 4 days. Or they can show up whenever they want deliver a box of cues to a customer/dealer/flipper get a handfull of cash then be free to hangout with friends, do what they want when they want, drink beer, watch pool matches and eat where they want to. They can also take advantage of cheaper travel and accommodations due to the fact they don't have to be there at a set time and stay for the whole event if they don't want to.

Justin you should get a group of those knife makers (say ten or so) and have them display at a cue show for a few days. I would say by the end of day 2 you had better hope they sold out or you will need to hide all sharp objects from those super nice guys after being around pool players for a couple days. Take every Azbilliards and Facebook rant you have ever posted about pool players and gun people multiply it times 10 and that's what it can be like working a booth for a few days.
 
Travis Niklich said:
What about the unintended consequence of having hundreds of potential buyers sitting on the sidelines and their wallets waiting to get their number drawn. I could see lots of buyers not buying a nice cue from the many builders that have been the lifeblood of the shows for years for fear they may win a chance to buy a Szamboti etc and won't have the money if they buy something earlier in the show that they like.

I think many of the builders that have been at the show and paid handsomely to display there for years would pack up and leave early or not come back in the future if buyers weren't buying for these reasons. Most pool players don't realize that it's the vendors that make shows and pool tournaments like SBE work.

Why would builder's you listed want to do this, most of the ones you have mentioned attend the show and deliver cues to people there. So they would have to pay for a booth, be there for the whole show and work a booth for the whole 4 days. Or they can show up whenever they want deliver a box of cues to a customer/dealer/flipper get a handfull of cash then be free to hangout with friends, do what they want when they want, drink beer, watch pool matches and eat where they want to. They can also take advantage of cheaper travel and accommodations due to the fact they don't have to be there at a set time and stay for the whole event if they don't want to.

Justin you should get a group of those knife makers (say ten or so) and have them display at a cue show for a few days. I would say by the end of day 2 you had better hope they sold out or you will need to hide all sharp objects from those super nice guys after being around pool players for a couple days. Take every Azbilliards and Facebook rant you have ever posted about pool players and gun people multiply it times 10 and that's what it can be like working a booth for a few days.
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Why would guys want to do this? To generate excitement and build interest in cues and the game. I am not speaking for anyone. I have talked to some makers who said they liked the idea. I wouldn't expect the makers to be at a booth for the whole show. Maybe just have them do one day on the day their stuff is drawn. I can see the show promoter having a booth or maybe a cue supply company or whatever. Lots of possibilities. The idea is to generate excitement.

As far as the waiting on raffles/not spending money till they see if they can buy something. Its not that hard to address. Over a three day event schedule the drawings early to halfway through the day. Do the draws spread out over three days or whatever the event is. This gets people in the door each day and leaves plenty of time after draws for people to find other things. I see it every year at a knife show here in Vegas. People come to the show to buy. If they dont hit a drawing they walk out with something. I do it every year. Half the time I blow my money before some of the drawings I enter because I found something cool and I grab it.

If I was a guy who displays every year I would want more people with money in their pocket around the show. Maybe they didn't come there for me but if they are in the building it means I have a chance to get my product in their hands. Maybe they buy what I have, maybe they order. Maybe it takes a couple years of building a relationship just shooting the sh!t and then they order. Either way it costs me nothing extra to get those new people in the door. If they stay home I get nothing.

I am well aware of what its like to have pool players as customers.

I have no doubt that some or maybe most makers would not be interested at first. All it would take is a few to start. Maybe it wouldn't work at all. I think if done right and with some luck it could make a positive impact for everyone. My point of view is if things are done as they always have been then we will get what we have always gotten. Which is a game and market on the decline.
 
Just playing devil's advocate for a while in my last post.

I proposed a similar idea at the SBE ACA meeting. As you may know the ACA has a booth to promote cue making and the cue of the year award. One cue maker suggested that a cue maker should have to be present and have a booth to be eligible to win cue of the year. The president of the ACA said that being able to display a cue in the booth for the cue of the year was a benefit of being a ACA member for all and not just those who bought a booth.

I suggested that since all members are welcome to put a cue in that booth and we have a person the ACA pays to watch that booth we set up a system so customers can buy that cue either from the person that's working the booth or a way to contact the cue maker at the show. I suggested that we charge a nominal fee to do this to help offset the cost of the booth and personnel, it could also raise a small amount of money for the ACA if it where to catch on.

Some people didn't like the idea of people who didn't have a booth being able to sell cues there. My counter to that was they would only be able to sell one cue and that some are already doing it at the show so why not make it official.

I'm not sure where my idea stands right now but I think it might help attract new members to the ACA and help them offset the cost of being a member if they could sell a cue at the show.
 
Travis Niklich said:
Just playing devil's advocate for a while in my last post.

I proposed a similar idea at the SBE ACA meeting. As you may know the ACA has a booth to promote cue making and the cue of the year award. One cue maker suggested that a cue maker should have to be present and have a booth to be eligible to win cue of the year. The president of the ACA said that being able to display a cue in the booth for the cue of the year was a benefit of being a ACA member for all and not just those who bought a booth.

I suggested that since all members are welcome to put a cue in that booth and we have a person the ACA pays to watch that booth we set up a system so customers can buy that cue either from the person that's working the booth or a way to contact the cue maker at the show. I suggested that we charge a nominal fee to do this to help offset the cost of the booth and personnel, it could also raise a small amount of money for the ACA if it where to catch on.

Some people didn't like the idea of people who didn't have a booth being able to sell cues there. My counter to that was they would only be able to sell one cue and that some are already doing it at the show so why not make it official.

I'm not sure where my idea stands right now but I think it might help attract new members to the ACA and help them offset the cost of being a member if they could sell a cue at the show.
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The ACA seems like a perfect fit for something like this. I'm sure there are hurdles I don't even know about but it seems it would be a good way for the ACA to generate some excitement about cues.
 
I think a big reason why the don't do it because they are can't keep their promise to customers. It should not take 10 years to make a cue for a customer.
 
Very interesting thread.... I travel in both circles. You're right there are many areas that cross over.

I have seen the show raffles JCIN, and the flood to buy the blades right after they're done. People get a raffle ticket that "allows them to buy a blade at the price stated".... and then they flip it 10 mins later....

Here is my opinion on this....

1). Net presence is the future for both, not in person shows. (unless you refuse to buy without physically laying your hands on it first). There are less and less shows for blades... of course there is still Blade and the gathering etc, but in general its dwindling.

2). Raffles are successfully done ALL the TIME on various knife forums... Yes it allows folks to get a blade they normally couldn't afford, and / or wouldn't want to wait for, on a list.

3). Here is the primary difference IMO..... Knifemakers are willing to keep and maintain subforums to display their work. A lot of them do this instead of having a website of their own. They have these subforums where the customers are already present, looking for blades. Of course this wouldn't help cuemakers who have lifetime lists, (They already have enough work), but to me it would sure would be interesting to see. Facebook has a lot of this already too, but I still prefer the forums. One of the best is http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/forum.php

Take a look at the pic below... This is from the Jerzee Devil.... and it gives you an idea of all the subforums for individual makers might look like. This is just a sample.... Lots of these guys show almost every step they take in their WIP threads.... And there is knives raffled off quite frequently...As a matter of fact there is a Halloween build off over on the Jerzee Devil that I am entered in, and I believe a lot of these blades will be raffled off, after it is over... :eek:



rta4Ghx.jpg
 
Recommend me a custom blade please because I don't want to end up buying a pricey Benchmade.

Thanks in advance.

I prefer a folding knife.
 
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