rules question

[mworkman]

I play in a handicapped 14.1 league, we go by bca rules. Is it right that you can't foul on purpose? My opponent scratched and was on his first foul, I didn't have a shot and I didn't want to disturb the balls and give him a good shot. I decided to just take a foul by shooting the cueball at a rail and leaving him in a tough situation. A fellow member said that it was not allowed and that was a deliberate foul which is an additional 15 point penalty for a total of -16 points. He showed me a rule that said you can't deliberately foul. Does this sound right? I thought you could foul on purpose. Why should he gain an advantage after he scratched?

 

[alstl]

I play in a handicapped 14.1 league, we go by bca rules. Is it right that you can't foul on purpose? My opponent scratched and was on his first foul, I didn't have a shot and I didn't want to disturb the balls and give him a good shot. I decided to just take a foul by shooting the cueball at a rail and leaving him in a tough situation. A fellow member said that it was not allowed and that was a deliberate foul which is an additional 15 point penalty for a total of -16 points. He showed me a rule that said you can't deliberately foul. Does this sound right? I thought you could foul on purpose. Why should he gain an advantage after he scratched?

Next time you see the guy ask him to show you the rule again and post the exact language here. I've never heard of such a rule in 14.1 - deliberate fouls are part of the game.

 

[mnhighrunlist]

As I understand it, if you took cue ball in hand behind the headstring (the kitchen)..you have to shoot the cueball out of the kitchen. The shot could be an intentional foul (-1 point). But if you shot the cue ball not crossing the headstring before it contacted a object ball or just shot it into a corner it could be interpreted as a unsportsmanlike foul.

From WPA rulebook
6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

[alstl]

As I understand it, if you took cue ball in hand behind the headstring (the kitchen)..you have to shoot the cueball out of the kitchen. The shot could be an intentional foul (-1 point). But if you shot the cue ball not crossing the headstring before it contacted a object ball or just shot it into a corner it could be interpreted as a unsportsmanlike foul.

From WPA rulebook
6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.

The shot there is shoot the cue ball at the long rail just above the headstring with a lot of side on it and leave it on the head rail.

Maybe the op just shot the ball back at the head rail.

 

[Bob Jewett]

The shot there is shoot the cue ball at the long rail just above the headstring with a lot of side on it and leave it on the head rail.

Maybe the op just shot the ball back at the head rail.

There are several ways to play out of the kitchen and return to the head cushion without hitting a ball. One is to play nearly parallel to the headstring as you suggest (although that should be "below the headstring" above). A second way is to play from about where you shoot the opening break shot from but to the other side of the rack, missing the rack completely and hitting two cushions near the far corner pocket to return to the head cushion. A way I like is to place the cue ball very near the headspot and nudge the cue ball just over the line. This makes the standard foul safe to the back of the rack a little harder, I think.

As for the OP, I think the people back at the league need a lot more exposure to defensive strategy at 14.1. Complicating the matter is that many of the current top runners have never studied safety play at 14.1. Maybe Crane's 150-and-out against Balsis would be a good place to start as that match began with some safes. Here's one link: https://youtu.be/nWLQWYnhHKY?t=8m5s

Are there any recent 14.1 safety battles on YouTube worth watching?

 

[alstl]

There are several ways to play out of the kitchen and return to the head cushion without hitting a ball. One is to play nearly parallel to the headstring as you suggest (although that should be "below the headstring" above). A second way is to play from about where you shoot the opening break shot from but to the other side of the rack, missing the rack completely and hitting two cushions near the far corner pocket to return to the head cushion. A way I like is to place the cue ball very near the headspot and nudge the cue ball just over the line. This makes the standard foul safe to the back of the rack a little harder, I think.

As for the OP, I think the people back at the league need a lot more exposure to defensive strategy at 14.1. Complicating the matter is that many of the current top runners have never studied safety play at 14.1. Maybe Crane's 150-and-out against Balsis would be a good place to start as that match began with some safes. Here's one link: https://youtu.be/nWLQWYnhHKY?t=8m5s

Are there any recent 14.1 safety battles on YouTube worth watching?

You are correct, I meant "below" the headstring".

I just had surgery today so I'm in couch potato mode for a while. If I see any matches with a lot of safety play I'll bump this thread with the link. I remember seeing a match with Bobby Hunter commentating in which he gave some good safety play tips but unfortunately I can't remember who the players were. One I'm aware of is an accustats video of Mizerak vs Ortmann in the 1989 finals and there was a lot of safety play because the rack wasn't opening good for either player on their break shot. Not a great representation of either player's game but interesting safety play. There are two videos of Mizerak/Ortmann but this one is the finals won by Ortmann.

I remember in the Crane vs Balsis video Crane banked the cue ball two rails into the back of the stack. That was without any balls open, I get the impression there were some loose balls in the op's situation. There is another old video of Crane vs Sheahan. At an advanced age, nowhere near his top speed at that stage but Crane was one of the best at safety play so even though his ball running skills had declined his mind and safety play can be learned from.


Edit - Here are a couple shots I found from Crane.

Twice in this sequence he takes the first foul by putting the cue ball into the bottom of the stack.

https://youtu.be/PY2SUU_jZzc?t=1440

And here with bih and a few loose balls he does something interesting.

https://youtu.be/PY2SUU_jZzc?t=4162

 

[brooklynplayer]

Thanks for these links!

As a really new (under 1 year) player to 14.1 (well pool in general, seriously anyways) - learning about safety play seems to be one of the hardest thing to discover online.

As much as I love watching people run balls against the ghost, having someone do a solid walk through of some basic safeties (and the appropriate responses) would be a godsend.

I've seen a few video where Danny DiLiberto walks though some situations to a student, but this info is a rarity in video form.

Even basic things like how to read the rack when trying to glance off if it, so that the balls don't break up too much - or when to try and open up just one ball would be great vids.

Anyways thanks!

 

[mnhighrunlist]

There also is an entire chapter of Babe Cranefield's book "The Straight Pool Bible" devoted to safety play complete with illustrations.

 

[dmgwalsh]

Thanks for these links!

As a really new (under 1 year) player to 14.1 (well pool in general, seriously anyways) - learning about safety play seems to be one of the hardest thing to discover online.

As much as I love watching people run balls against the ghost, having someone do a solid walk through of some basic safeties (and the appropriate responses) would be a godsend.

I've seen a few video where Danny DiLiberto walks though some situations to a student, but this info is a rarity in video form.

Even basic things like how to read the rack when trying to glance off if it, so that the balls don't break up too much - or when to try and open up just one ball would be great vids.

Anyways thanks!

I remember some discussion of safety play in Ray Martin's book. 99 Critical shots in pool.

I think there is some discussion of safety play in Phil Capelle's Play your best straight pool.

Other than that, I'd suggest playing around with a minimally open rack and noting how the other balls react to a hit. This may help safety play and also may help in breaking out balls and playing shape on one of the balls you break out.