Best "Affordable" 4th Axis

[gio-XZero]

George,

Here's the quote where you said that it wasn't a Harmonic Drive.



Sorry, but it is a harmonic drive.

Royce

Don't have to be sorry to me?
You need to read post again . I don't see where i said you where wrong?

In post i said could be wrong ,Never once said you where wrong. Unless take it all apart you never know the true size . From the size of the harmonic it is very small. But they are small harmonic used second hand as why they are cheap .Do you know what gapless means

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free...4-axis-rotary-axis-4th-axis-A/2053551026.html

 

[RBC]

I stated clearpath is not the right choice for CNC machine.If i ever looking at single axis programmable driver and motor i would look at getting them because they are the cheapest .
Leadshine is not a cheap china knock off. I sell most of my machines with out motor kits. So it don't really matter what people choose to use.
Absurd means utterly senseless, to the post you made about reference to BMW.

George,

What makes you think we would run a cnc machine with a programmable driver?

Do you think that's how clearpath motors work, with programmable drivers?

This is where we have confusion.
Clearpath's MCVC motors are point to point and motion control type motors. Their SDSK motors are step and direction driven. These SDSK are being used by many to run CNC machines with great success. They operate exactly like a large servo system without as much power and not nearly as much expense.

As for the leadshine's, I have not tried them personally. But I have read up on them somewhat and have serious concerns. They appear to be 3 phase motors rather than the more common 2 phase. This is strange, and appears to be a poor application using hard to find motors that they possible have an excess of and need to get rid of them. In any case, the clearpath's are stronger, have an excellent tuning system and lots of motor setup options, and work very well with the Mach3 systems we use. Teknik also has a 90 day return policy so if you don't choose the right one, you can easily adjust to your application.

In any case, your comments about using a programmable controller on our CNC's just really leads me to believe that you may not be aware of the different version's of clearpath motors.

I'm not trying to argue. Just answer your questions and make sure everyone is on the same page.

Royce

 

[LGSM3]

Speechless!

George, this is the moment when you should realize your not the smartest guy in the room.


I've followed you since inception on cnc zone and at no point have you ever had such sophisticated discussion as you have on this pool cue forum. A lot of "very smart" guys have made very good suggestions to you but you maintain that your smarter.

One very important quality for a businessman to have is humility, without it your opportunity for real growth is extremely limited

Just curious, you tout names like yaskawa and Mitsubishi,

Can you list more benefits of sigma drive with 400w motor compared to a teknic sdhp motor

Please keep it within the parameters of the xzero
Specifically with direct drive 10mm screws and a likely motion controller output frequency of around 50khz as with Mach

 

[gio-XZero]

As you see in video , the leadshine easyservo are amazing and prefect motor set up for machine.
You can get 3 axis for same price as most motor kits single axis .
This is their low end easyservo driver and have 110v drivers for them also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMZdCcLQc4M

 

[gio-XZero]

Speechless!

George, this is the moment when you should realize your not the smartest guy in the room.


I've followed you since inception on cnc zone and at no point have you ever had such sophisticated discussion as you have on this pool cue forum. A lot of "very smart" guys have made very good suggestions to you but you maintain that your smarter.

One very important quality for a businessman to have is humility, without it your opportunity for real growth is extremely limited

Just curious, you tout names like yaskawa and Mitsubishi,

Can you list more benefits of sigma drive with 400w motor compared to a teknic sdhp motor

Please keep it within the parameters of the xzero
Specifically with direct drive 10mm screws and a likely motion controller output frequency of around 50khz as with Mach

I don't know what suggestions have be made that i am not listening to?
i hope your not saying to use a leadscrew instead of ballscrew professional input?
Like any thing in life , a person has a choice to pick what they want.
As with pool cues. People buy pool cues from one maker because they found it best to use for them .
I don't know why you think i have a problem with clearpath? i dont. IMO i don't think they are what i would use on cnc machine plain and simple. There is lots of companys that make smart drivers. It not just Clearpath.

A smart driver depending on setting used will fight with controller sending command or step and direction , causing rounded corners and not round circles.You want a driver that does what the controller card tells it do do.

"ClearPath is a brushless servo motor, encoder, servo drive, and controller all rolled into one compact package"
They make a step version but theres no information i can find right now. From memory its still using a motion controller though inside, and not just moving step by step. the yaskawa junma drives do the same thing, which is why they are not suitable for cnc machine tools with coordinated axes. for cnc as i said before, you want a "stupid" drive. you also need the encoder to pass back to the control for best results.
also, their biggest "step and direction" nema23 setup is 170w continuous and $650 and still needs a power supply. meaning is way more money than delta, leadshine, etc and almost as much money as yaskawa sigma and mitsubishi.

 

[gio-XZero]

George,

What makes you think we would run a cnc machine with a programmable driver?

Do you think that's how clearpath motors work, with programmable drivers?

This is where we have confusion.
Clearpath's MCVC motors are point to point and motion control type motors. Their SDSK motors are step and direction driven. These SDSK are being used by many to run CNC machines with great success. They operate exactly like a large servo system without as much power and not nearly as much expense.

As for the leadshine's, I have not tried them personally. But I have read up on them somewhat and have serious concerns. They appear to be 3 phase motors rather than the more common 2 phase. This is strange, and appears to be a poor application using hard to find motors that they possible have an excess of and need to get rid of them. In any case, the clearpath's are stronger, have an excellent tuning system and lots of motor setup options, and work very well with the Mach3 systems we use. Teknik also has a 90 day return policy so if you don't choose the right one, you can easily adjust to your application.

In any case, your comments about using a programmable controller on our CNC's just really leads me to believe that you may not be aware of the different version's of clearpath motors.

I'm not trying to argue. Just answer your questions and make sure everyone is on the same page.

Royce

Almost every company makes 3 phase motor. ill leave it at that. Easy to find out online about them and you would see the big difference .But i mostly sell 2 phase motors with all leadshine drivers .
Sorry i was meaning to say smart driver not programmable

 

[pescadoman]

3 phase for instant reverse??

Layman's guess?

I wish the answers were a bit less aloof. I'm really interested in learning something here...

 

[Thomas Wayne]

[...]

"ClearPath is a brushless servo motor, encoder, servo drive, and controller all rolled into one compact package"
They make a step version but theres no information i can find right now. [...]

And THAT is your problem, George. You have three intelligent people here who DO have both information AND a great deal of EXPERIENCE between them regarding Clearpath SDSK motors. We are ALL telling you they have proven to be an EXCELLENT motor for small to mid-range CNC systems. We are speaking from experience - I, for one, have several retrofits in the field, and a number of full-build machines. These machines are working flawlessly day after day in serious full-time businesses, and the owners are very, VERY happy with them.

Meanwhile, it's quite obvious you have never even held a Clearpth SDSK motor in your hands - let alone wired one up and actually tested it. In any discussion there's a time to speak out and a time to shut up and pay attention. On the subject of the Clearpath motors, this would be a very good time for you to do the latter.

TW

 

[gio-XZero]

And THAT is your problem, George. You have three intelligent people here who DO have both information AND a great deal of EXPERIENCE between them regarding Clearpath SDSK motors. We are ALL telling you they have proven to be an EXCELLENT motor for small to mid-range CNC systems. We are speaking from experience - I, for one, have several retrofits in the field, and a number of full-build machines. These machines are working flawlessly day after day in serious full-time businesses, and the owners are very, VERY happy with them.

Meanwhile, it's quite obvious you have never even held a Clearpth SDSK motor in your hands - let alone wired one up and actually tested it. In any discussion there's a time to speak out and a time to shut up and pay attention. On the subject of the Clearpath motors, this would be a very good time for you to do the latter.

TW

Again there nothing wrong with you using them, that's up to you.I have sold hundreds of easyservo and not one complaint? So I don't think that would happen, and to boot 3x easyservo is less prices than one Clearpath? Have you seen easyservo on a machine. Maybe you need to look and see the difference, most important is the low end torque .When you can show me what you can gain from Clearpath over easyservo let me know and ill look it over.But you will not have any gain for cnc application .Maybe at lot of other applictions but no cnc

 

[gio-XZero]

3 phase for instant reverse??

Layman's guess?

I wish the answers were a bit less aloof. I'm really interested in learning something here...

The motors excel with the following features:
• Positioning accuracy and speed accuracy
• Very quiet and almost resonance-free
• Dynamics and high peak torque
• High power density
• Excellent dynamics
• Broad torque range
• Special winding for low phase currents
• Motor connections via flying leads, terminal box or connector
• Easy commissioning
• Low maintenance
• High overload capability

 

[gio-XZero]

Again , it is my choice to tell people what is best to use. I have not had a single problem of any kind with easyservos.
IMO you will not find anything that comes close to Leadshine easyservo for what they cost.
Maybe tried one out and then you will see the difference.
I sell machines with no motors, it is up to person buying if they want motor kit or not. So don't really matter to me if they get leadshine or not.
I just know leadshine will not give any problems and save a lot of money at same time

 

[LGSM3]

I don't know what suggestions have be made that i am not listening to?
i hope your not saying to use a leadscrew instead of ballscrew professional input?
Like any thing in life , a person has a choice to pick what they want.
As with pool cues. People buy pool cues from one maker because they found it best to use for them .
I don't know why you think i have a problem with clearpath? i dont. IMO i don't think they are what i would use on cnc machine plain and simple. There is lots of companys that make smart drivers. It not just Clearpath.

A smart driver depending on setting used will fight with controller sending command or step and direction , causing rounded corners and not round circles.You want a driver that does what the controller card tells it do do.

"ClearPath is a brushless servo motor, encoder, servo drive, and controller all rolled into one compact package"
They make a step version but theres no information i can find right now. From memory its still using a motion controller though inside, and not just moving step by step. the yaskawa junma drives do the same thing, which is why they are not suitable for cnc machine tools with coordinated axes. for cnc as i said before, you want a "stupid" drive. you also need the encoder to pass back to the control for best results.
also, their biggest "step and direction" nema23 setup is 170w continuous and $650 and still needs a power supply. meaning is way more money than delta, leadshine, etc and almost as much money as yaskawa sigma and mitsubishi.

Ok, so now your talking apples and oranges and further confirming your real knowledge base with regards to electronics

Leadscrew? Joey asked you about Kerk screws. A wise man gives even the dumbest of ideas a thought. I happen to think there is one instance specific to your machines where a Kerk screw would be extremely beneficial. Take a moment and ponder it

Hint: you kinda already answered where it would be beneficial with your smartass response to his question

 

[gio-XZero]

Ok, so now your talking apples and oranges and further confirming your real knowledge base with regards to electronics

Leadscrew? Joey asked you about Kerk screws. A wise man gives even the dumbest of ideas a thought. I happen to think there is one instance specific to your machines where a Kerk screw would be extremely beneficial. Take a moment and ponder it

Hint: you kinda already answered where it would be beneficial with your smartass response to his question

Kerk screw is a leadscrew. Plastic nut with no bearings.It would last a day if your lucky with heavy machines.
i would love to use kerk screw, it would drop price of the machines 1/3 in price.
But not looking to take advantage of people or mislead them

This has got to be first time i have ever been ask for leadscrew , when other avoid machines because of leadscrew

 

[RBC]

George

When I was talking about your leadshine motors and mentioned that they were 3 phase, I assumed that you already knew that they were BLDC stepper motors.

I believe that you took my comment to be about 3 phase AC induction motors.

They are quite different and cannot be interchanged.

Also, in case you didn't know, the Clearpath Step and Direction motors do not have any kind of controller in them. They do have a S&D driven servo amplifier and a PC based tuning software. They do perform with the higher low end torque of a stepper but with higher rpm ranges. And, of course because they are servo's they also can't lose steps. They come with either 800 count or 6400 count encoders built in.

These are the reasons you get so much resistance here. Apparently, Clearpath does some things that you're not familiar with. And, you seem to refuse to go back and take a look for yourself. I suggest you just call them. They are very useful on the phone.


Have a good day!

Royce

 

[gio-XZero]

George

When I was talking about your leadshine motors and mentioned that they were 3 phase, I assumed that you already knew that they were BLDC stepper motors.

I believe that you took my comment to be about 3 phase AC induction motors.

They are quite different and cannot be interchanged.

Also, in case you didn't know, the Clearpath Step and Direction motors do not have any kind of controller in them. They do have a S&D driven servo amplifier and a PC based tuning software. They do perform with the higher low end torque of a stepper but with higher rpm ranges. And, of course because they are servo's they also can't lose steps. They come with either 800 count or 6400 count encoders built in.

These are the reasons you get so much resistance here. Apparently, Clearpath does some things that you're not familiar with. And, you seem to refuse to go back and take a look for yourself. I suggest you just call them. They are very useful on the phone.


Have a good day!

Royce

Hi Royce, you saying a 3 phase stepper is a BLDC motor?
Do you know what 3 phase stepper is good for
Leadshine has 3 phase steppers and that only one sold as 3 phase other than there servos

No i did not take as AC motor.

As far as motors, again it is up to person buying machine.
If person looking for high quality and high precision and looking to save lots of money ill get them the leadshine . I sell motor kits at my cost. Machines have same profit margin selling with motors or without .
I have 100s of people telling the motors are great and what a deal.

 

[RBC]

Hi Royce, you saying a 3 phase stepper is a BLDC motor?
Do you know what 3 phase stepper is good for
Leadshine has 3 phase steppers and that only one sold as 3 phase other than there servos

No i did not take as AC motor.

As far as motors, again it is up to person buying machine.
If person looking for high quality and high precision and looking to save lots of money ill get them the leadshine . I sell motor kits at my cost. Machines have same profit margin selling with motors or without .
I have 100s of people telling the motors are great and what a deal.

George

Yes, the Easy Servo system is a stepper based system, and all steppers are brushless DC motors. (BLDC)

Again, your inability to even look into what someone else suggests is where you're going to lose me. For you and I to have a simple logical discussion, each side needs to be able to reply and have his statements at least reviewed and considered by the other party. As of now, you still stand that Clearpath motors all have controllers in them and cannot operate as a step and direction component. When in fact, the SDSK and SDHP motors from Clearpath do operate as step and direction driven servo motors. Actually, they are called "Stepper Killer" (the SK part), for a reason. They were designed explicitly to be used to replace stepper motors in CNC systems as a competitively priced high quality upgrade. I'm only sorry that you can't seem to accept that and even be willing to go and look for yourself.

I still like your machines, and will probably be looking to buy more when the time comes, but rest assured, I will be making my own control decisions.

Royce

 

[Thomas Wayne]

[...]When you can show me what you can gain from Clearpath over easyservo let me know and ill look it over.But you will not have any gain for cnc application .Maybe at lot of other applictions but no cnc

It's not my job to educate you, George - and besides, I'm really beginning to think you prefer remaining ignorant on the subject. And toward that end you have done a fine job with Clearpath SDSK motors, because you clearly know nothing about them - though that lacking doesn't seem to have slowed your blanket proclamations any.

TW

 

[pescadoman]

easy servos

I'm confused on many points here.

One is that George claims Cleapaths cost 3x's what Easyservo's do. Don't the Easyservo's require individual drivers, thus making the cost difference nil??

 

[gio-XZero]

George

Yes, the Easy Servo system is a stepper based system, and all steppers are brushless DC motors. (BLDC)

Again, your inability to even look into what someone else suggests is where you're going to lose me. For you and I to have a simple logical discussion, each side needs to be able to reply and have his statements at least reviewed and considered by the other party. As of now, you still stand that Clearpath motors all have controllers in them and cannot operate as a step and direction component. When in fact, the SDSK and SDHP motors from Clearpath do operate as step and direction driven servo motors. Actually, they are called "Stepper Killer" (the SK part), for a reason. They were designed explicitly to be used to replace stepper motors in CNC systems as a competitively priced high quality upgrade. I'm only sorry that you can't seem to accept that and even be willing to go and look for yourself.

I still like your machines, and will probably be looking to buy more when the time comes, but rest assured, I will be making my own control decisions.

Royce

Hi Royce
A 3 phase stepper is used for high speed torque and little low end , 2 phase steppers are used for low end torque.
Leadshine easyservo are 2 phase, and that's what what you need for router.

As i said, i have sold easyservo to people and companys that do high precision work. Like PCB, make implants for dental ,custom made orthopedic insoles. Countless jewellery machines all have easyservos and they say you will not find a better set up. Not even including the mold making machines with large easyservos that run 24 to 48 hours straight without a problem .OEM client is in the 1000s for leadshine alone

Again it is up to the person getting machine to pick and choose what they want to use.
My job is to give them the best machine i can for the price and if they want other parts i will get them at my cost for them. If my machines are not what you are looking for ,that's not a problem and even have help people get machines that they need that i don't sell.
I didn't just get into linear yesterday morning.

This is the only place you hear people talking about Clearpath, i guess if you think they would be more accurate for what you need for pool cues ,that is fine.
Most important is the controller , it tells motors where to move to, they will all move to where controller says to go.I have 100s telling Leadshine set ups are the best,so i know people will not have a problem with anything.

Same thing i went through with G540 and LEADSHINE MX4660 , when people where doing same thing as now. G540 this G540 that , till some people tried the MX4660 and where amazed the difference in their machine from just changing G540 out.

Again it has nothing to do with not listening to a persons input, on machines i mean. Whenever there is a problem , it is changed and taking care of. The reason the machines are as good as they are is because of people using them and telling what they think and how they see a problem. Without their help. the machines would have not changed .The machines since i had started are completely different and that's because of the people using them plain and simple .

Anyways and again , it is up to person getting machine to choice whet they want to use, If they want Leadshine, i get them out of the world deals on them , if not that's great too .
If there is input to machine and making it better that is great and what i look for . For motors i could care less. But you should try them and you would be amazed also
http://www.leadshine.com/producttyp...-servo-products&producttype=easy-servo-motors

 

[gio-XZero]

It's not my job to educate you, George - and besides, I'm really beginning to think you prefer remaining ignorant on the subject. And toward that end you have done a fine job with Clearpath SDSK motors, because you clearly know nothing about them - though that lacking doesn't seem to have slowed your blanket proclamations any.

TW

Educate me lol Better put your arm back on from patting your own back