Aiming for pro within 5 years. Realistic?

[one stroke]

Never made it around the world, and never won anything. So I guess we have things in common.

Man, this place and site has turned into a cesspool and I can't stomach this BS anymore.

I'm also pretty ecstatic that the nobodies of the pool/billiard world have found a place where they can dust off their keyboard and make a last ditch attempt to convince people that they are a "somebody." I hope everybody enjoys their time at the keyboard instead of at the table.

For the people on this site looking to help others and have the real experience required to help people asking questions, I applaud you all.

Onestroke,

Thanks for being the straw that broke the camel's back.

Glad I can help ,, for the record I know what it takes to play any sport game and to play it at a high level including pool , I also have several friends who are pro or pro level the ones who are still playing wish they learned something else they could fall back on as they live near poverty level ,,
Thiers nothing wrong with chasing your dreams in this case that dream pays less than the trash man unless your one of the Elite players and getting there starting at 23 may possible but the odds are minuscule

Now several pages later he has said he only wants to compete with Pro speed players and not make a fool of his self ,,
Now we're talking cause that's a whole different ball of wax ,, one that you can obtain sooner or later and you don't have all your chips in one basket
If he had said that in the first place the responses would have been much different
1

 

[Mark Griffin]

Zphix,

Don't let the naysayers get the best of you. The game is pool. It is supposed to be fun. I personally believe that everyone can get better. Some will attain amazingly high levels of play. But others will get to their peak level and hopefully enjoy the game.

What makes things miserable is listening to the BS that several posters just seem to keep spewing out there. They think they are cute - and probably think they know way more than they do - and they are full of suggestions.

Learn to ignore them. if I had a ban hammer I think this place would be a lot better off. But still am hoping you stay involved in the game - and hopefully with AZB. Just ignore the a**holes. They know who they are.

Mark Griffin

Never made it around the world, and never won anything. So I guess we have things in common.

Man, this place and site has turned into a cesspool and I can't stomach this BS anymore.

I'm also pretty ecstatic that the nobodies of the pool/billiard world have found a place where they can dust off their keyboard and make a last ditch attempt to convince people that they are a "somebody." I hope everybody enjoys their time at the keyboard instead of at the table.

For the people on this site looking to help others and have the real experience required to help people asking questions, I applaud you all.

Onestroke,

Thanks for being the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[one stroke]

Zphix,

Don't let the naysayers get the best of you. The game is pool. It is supposed to be fun. I personally believe that everyone can get better. Some will attain amazingly high levels of play. But others will get to their peak level and hopefully enjoy the game.

What makes things miserable is listening to the BS that several posters just seem to keep spewing out there. They think they are cute - and probably think they know way more than they do - and they are full of suggestions.

Learn to ignore them. if I had a ban hammer I think this place would be a lot better off. But still am hoping you stay involved in the game - and hopefully with AZB. Just ignore the a**holes. They know who they are.

Mark Griffin

That's pretty funny Mark the OP original question was could he make pro in 5 yrs and trade matches in 5 yrs with Johnny Morra
If you come on this site and ask the question expect a honest answer and the honest answer to that is highly unlikely now you might have a list of world beater pro's who took the game up at 23 but I don't and I would as well as many here would like to see that list of guys playing JMs speed in that time
The difference between what's real and what's fantasy is reality
There's nothing wrong with someone pointing out which is which

1

 

[caff3in3]

Never made it around the world, and never won anything. So I guess we have things in common.

Man, this place and site has turned into a cesspool and I can't stomach this BS anymore.

I'm also pretty ecstatic that the nobodies of the pool/billiard world have found a place where they can dust off their keyboard and make a last ditch attempt to convince people that they are a "somebody." I hope everybody enjoys their time at the keyboard instead of at the table.

For the people on this site looking to help others and have the real experience required to help people asking questions, I applaud you all.

Onestroke,

Thanks for being the straw that broke the camel's back.

Please make use of the ignore button and keep posting. We definitely need people like you around these parts.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

To the OP.
I don't think that 5 years with the proper training is unrealistic.

Just watch out if you succeed.

We wouldn't want you to get strong armed by pool promoters and business interests.
Pro pool isn't fun when they can manipulate your ability to participate in events, limit your ability to earn points, and can threaten to make or break your income should you not fall in line and obey.

How do you like them apples!

 

[SUPERSTAR]

You know. Reflecting on my post, I think that it's a tad too negative.
So...
On the bright side, if you do succeed in you mission you might fall into the group of "the elite!"

You get a whole bunch of perks should that happen.

Rigged draws so you have a much easier time winning matches and making more cash if you are friends with the promoter, or if they are staking you.
Promoter hook ups for free rooms at certain venues should you be friends with them, while everyone else has to pay money.
Immunity to forfeits should you decide to not show up on time, or just blatant rearranging of match times to accommodate your busy schedule, while everyone else is on the clock.

And the rare... the mysterious...THE COVETED.
Playing in a double elimination tournament, and having triple elimination status.
(Where you have to lose 3 times to get knocked out)


Aim high! Best of rolls!

 

[Kris_b1104]

You know. Reflecting on my post, I think that it's a tad too negative.
So...
On the bright side, if you do succeed in you mission you might fall into the group of "the elite!"

You get a whole bunch of perks should that happen.

Rigged draws so you have a much easier time winning matches and making more cash if you are friends with the promoter, or if they are staking you.
Promoter hook ups for free rooms at certain venues should you be friends with them, while everyone else has to pay money.
Immunity to forfeits should you decide to not show up on time, or just blatant rearranging of match times to accommodate your busy schedule, while everyone else is on the clock.

And the rare... the mysterious...THE COVETED.
Playing in a double elimination tournament, and having triple elimination status.
(Where you have to lose 3 times to get knocked out)


Aim high! Best of rolls!

Year, post of the.

 

[7forlife]

Wow, this is still going on huh.
Question: for the OP to reach pro speed (whatever the definition of that may be) let's see at what rate he would have to increase starting at (again, what ever level is given to a beginner) a C or a D, or should it be a banger.

Can he go from C to B in one year?
Can he go from B to A in one year?
Can he go from A to Open in one year?
Can he go from Open to Pro in one year?
Now that give him a 3 month grace period to master Banks, kicks, breaking and multiple rails.

I think he's a shoe in

 

[Tin Man]

No

The question was 'is it realistic?'. The answer is no.

This isn't being negative. This is simply answering the question.

Is it theoretically possible? Yes. So is winning the lottery. I think the odds are comparable. Meaning they are so long that to six significant figures the odds of success don't really change whether you try or not.

The notion that if you put your mind to it and don't let anything get in your way you can do whatever you set your sights on, that isn't quite accurate. That is simply the price of admission to get into the top few thousand. There are literally thousands of players that gave their life to follow this dream thinking that if they simply sold their soul and played their hearts out every day for many years good things would happen. Unfortunately for all but the top 10 they didn't, and even some of those 10 have had a very dicey path at best.

I didn't believe this either when I was young. From the time I was 13 until I was 19 I practiced every day, 8, 10, maybe 12 or 14 hours a day for 6 years. I drew pictures of pool patterns in my school notebook, cut class at 12PM when the pool hall opened and played until 10PM, then went home and practiced shots until after midnight. I watched videos and then dreamed of pool. Easter. Christmas. New Years. I was playing pool, because I wanted to prove I wanted it more than anyone in the world. I wanted to be the #1 player of all time. Saturday nights I didn't go to the movies, I was doing drills. I practiced hard shots for hours, until I'd made them 100 times, then if I caught myself just going through the motions after I reached 93 I'd get mad at myself saying "you're not doing this to get to 100, you're doing this to become the greatest in the world, you aren't going to get there with this half a$$ crap, just for that you're doing another 25!". Older players around me told me that they too had been young and hungry once, and I laughed, no one had EVER been as hungry as I was. I pushed and pushed and pushed, well beyond pain, I steered INTO pain because I felt that pain was equal to improvement, the more pain I went through the better I'd get, and I was going to lose my competition because no one in the world wanted it as much as me, no one would be willing to go through the pain I had gone through. So I steered into the ninth circle of hell, and stayed there for YEARS, every time I whimpered I got angry and fired up my drive again, and whipped myself harder.

This doesn't even begin to describe what I went through for 6 years. Practice, gambling, tournaments, study, more practice. THEN- in my 20s I played better players, pro tournaments, regional tournaments, and put in another many years practicing.

The results? I'm a good regional player. I've cashed in 4/5 pro tournaments I've played, with a 17th place in the US Open as my high water mark, a few memorable wins over world champs, and a very strong regional performance.

I know, I know. Just because I couldn't do it doesn't mean someone else can't. Again, I'm not saying it's impossible. I'll just put it this way...I'll give you 5 years and bet against it, I'll be my house, my car, my cues, and everything I can borrow, and put it up against your $10.

That all said, it was a fun ride. I still love to play, it's a heck of a game and I enjoy the hard work and the road. I don't have any regrets. I just think if you go down this road it better be about the journey not the destination, because the road doesn't really lead anywhere.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

The question was 'is it realistic?'. The answer is no.

This isn't being negative. This is simply answering the question.

Is it theoretically possible? Yes. So is winning the lottery. I think the odds are comparable. Meaning they are so long that to six significant figures the odds of success don't really change whether you try or not.

The notion that if you put your mind to it and don't let anything get in your way you can do whatever you set your sights on, that isn't quite accurate. That is simply the price of admission to get into the top few thousand. There are literally thousands of players that gave their life to follow this dream thinking that if they simply sold their soul and played their hearts out every day for many years good things would happen. Unfortunately for all but the top 10 they didn't, and even some of those 10 have had a very dicey path at best.

I didn't believe this either when I was young. From the time I was 13 until I was 19 I practiced every day, 8, 10, maybe 12 or 14 hours a day for 6 years. I drew pictures of pool patterns in my school notebook, cut class at 12PM when the pool hall opened and played until 10PM, then went home and practiced shots until after midnight. I watched videos and then dreamed of pool. Easter. Christmas. New Years. I was playing pool, because I wanted to prove I wanted it more than anyone in the world. I wanted to be the #1 player of all time. Saturday nights I didn't go to the movies, I was doing drills. I practiced hard shots for hours, until I'd made them 100 times, then if I caught myself just going through the motions after I reached 93 I'd get mad at myself saying "you're not doing this to get to 100, you're doing this to become the greatest in the world, you aren't going to get there with this half a$$ crap, just for that you're doing another 25!". Older players around me told me that they too had been young and hungry once, and I laughed, no one had EVER been as hungry as I was. I pushed and pushed and pushed, well beyond pain, I steered INTO pain because I felt that pain was equal to improvement, the more pain I went through the better I'd get, and I was going to lose my competition because no one in the world wanted it as much as me, no one would be willing to go through the pain I had gone through. So I steered into the ninth circle of hell, and stayed there for YEARS, every time I whimpered I got angry and fired up my drive again, and whipped myself harder.

This doesn't even begin to describe what I went through for 6 years. Practice, gambling, tournaments, study, more practice. THEN- in my 20s I played better players, pro tournaments, regional tournaments, and put in another many years practicing.

The results? I'm a good regional player. I've cashed in 4/5 pro tournaments I've played, with a 17th place in the US Open as my high water mark, a few memorable wins over world champs, and a very strong regional performance.

I know, I know. Just because I couldn't do it doesn't mean someone else can't. Again, I'm not saying it's impossible. I'll just put it this way...I'll give you 5 years and bet against it, I'll be my house, my car, my cues, and everything I can borrow, and put it up against your $10.

That all said, it was a fun ride. I still love to play, it's a heck of a game and I enjoy the hard work and the road. I don't have any regrets. I just think if you go down this road it better be about the journey not the destination, because the road doesn't really lead anywhere.

This is an excellent post, and you are getting green from me for it.
I'd like to take your view point a step further with a question.

Do you think your top end would've been higher of those six years were spent training with a coach?

I'm under the impression that if the OP were to move to Germany, and live in an apartment down the street from a billiard club, and worked with a professional master instructor day in and day out, the potential is accelerated and the time frame is shortened.

Your experience is the traditional American pool experience, and I believe going forward in this sport, it just won't be enough-the solitary pool quest will be overshadowed by the sports coach pool program found in other countries.

Great post by the way. Excellent writing and capturing of what it takes to build your skills to that level.

 

[Banks]

Wow, this is still going on huh.
Question: for the OP to reach pro speed (whatever the definition of that may be) let's see at what rate he would have to increase starting at (again, what ever level is given to a beginner) a C or a D, or should it be a banger.

Can he go from C to B in one year?
Can he go from B to A in one year?
Can he go from A to Open in one year?
Can he go from Open to Pro in one year?
Now that give him a 3 month grace period to master Banks, kicks, breaking and multiple rails.

I think he's a shoe in

This sums it up pretty well.

If you don't reach A after at least a couple of years, you'll know your answer.

 

[Neil]

This is an excellent post, and you are getting green from me for it.
I'd like to take your view point a step further with a question.

Do you think your top end would've been higher of those six years were spent training with a coach?

I'm under the impression that if the OP were to move to Germany, and live in an apartment down the street from a billiard club, and worked with a professional master instructor day in and day out, the potential is accelerated and the time frame is shortened.

Your experience is the traditional American pool experience, and I believe going forward in this sport, it just won't be enough-the solitary pool quest will be overshadowed by the sports coach pool program found in other countries.

Great post by the way. Excellent writing and capturing of what it takes to build your skills to that level.

I'd say the answer to your question would be a definite YES. But, that's not the hardest part. The hardest part is to keep the desire and determination to do what is needed to be done. That becomes more and more difficult when one realizes that the only real goal at the end of the work is to say that you once played at pro level. Something that won't even get you a cup of coffee.

As tinman stated, it's all about the journey, finding out what you are made of.

 

[Tin Man]

Coaching

This is an excellent post, and you are getting green from me for it.
I'd like to take your view point a step further with a question.

Do you think your top end would've been higher of those six years were spent training with a coach?

I'm under the impression that if the OP were to move to Germany, and live in an apartment down the street from a billiard club, and worked with a professional master instructor day in and day out, the potential is accelerated and the time frame is shortened.

Your experience is the traditional American pool experience, and I believe going forward in this sport, it just won't be enough-the solitary pool quest will be overshadowed by the sports coach pool program found in other countries.

Great post by the way. Excellent writing and capturing of what it takes to build your skills to that level.

Thank you for the feedback.

Looking back what I always felt limited my growth as a player was the lack of top players in the area I grew up in. Rochester, MN, had a few good players, but none of them were anything like elite. Greg Fix was nearly retired when I was playing. The other best players in town were short stops.

By the time I was 17-18 I was good enough to play with those players, but I was a ways off from pro speed. I truly feel I put in enough work during those years that had I been in a pool room with, say, Johnny Archer and some other truly world class players I could've sponged it up and gotten to another level before I was 20. I did watch accustats tapes again and again until I knew every word of the commentary and every shot they chose to shoot, this probably helped me get past that speed and is why I was able to be at least competitive in pro events.

But would Johnny Archer taking me under his wing have made me a world champion? I'm not sure. I was pretty driven. But I still doubt it. Maybe I would've ended up in that Gabe Ownen/Jeremy Jones range, or even a Corey Deuel/Rodney Morris range. Good enough to win a few big tournaments and get known, but not world championship level. I bet I could've gotten somewhere in there. But elite, I'm not sure I was ever wired to where that would've been possible. Deep down I don't know if I ever believed I could do that, I used my doubt to motivate me and that drives you a long way, but I'm not sure if it would've allowed me to really step up to the highest level.

A coach would've been useful, but without playing the highest caliber of players I don't know it would've worked.

I can see a combination...playing top players in your home room, then working with a coach who travels with you as you play a lot of international events. I think that would be the best shot...but even still, it's a inconceivably difficult undertaking and one that would leave most players in that notch under range, with Hunter Lombardo or Stevie Moore.

That all said, you've got SVB, who just hit balls in his basement in the middle of nowhere. No top players, only bar box tournaments, and yet he literally just made a journey that I have seen and still barely believe. Just goes to show that elite players have something beyond the sum of their parts. I don't think you can breed elite in a laboratory. I think you can breed short stops, and even national competitors. But elite is something that can only be revealed, not manufactured.

Still, the journey to find out if you have it within yourself is a fun one.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Thank you for the feedback.

Looking back what I always felt limited my growth as a player was the lack of top players in the area I grew up in. Rochester, MN, had a few good players, but none of them were anything like elite. Greg Fix was nearly retired when I was playing. The other best players in town were short stops.

By the time I was 17-18 I was good enough to play with those players, but I was a ways off from pro speed. I truly feel I put in enough work during those years that had I been in a pool room with, say, Johnny Archer and some other truly world class players I could've sponged it up and gotten to another level before I was 20. I did watch accustats tapes again and again until I knew every word of the commentary and every shot they chose to shoot, this probably helped me get past that speed and is why I was able to be at least competitive in pro events.

But would Johnny Archer taking me under his wing have made me a world champion? I'm not sure. I was pretty driven. But I still doubt it. Maybe I would've ended up in that Gabe Ownen/Jeremy Jones range, or even a Corey Deuel/Rodney Morris range. Good enough to win a few big tournaments and get known, but not world championship level. I bet I could've gotten somewhere in there. But elite, I'm not sure I was ever wired to where that would've been possible. Deep down I don't know if I ever believed I could do that, I used my doubt to motivate me and that drives you a long way, but I'm not sure if it would've allowed me to really step up to the highest level.

A coach would've been useful, but without playing the highest caliber of players I don't know it would've worked.

I can see a combination...playing top players in your home room, then working with a coach who travels with you as you play a lot of international events. I think that would be the best shot...but even still, it's a inconceivably difficult undertaking and one that would leave most players in that notch under range, with Hunter Lombardo or Stevie Moore.

That all said, you've got SVB, who just hit balls in his basement in the middle of nowhere. No top players, only bar box tournaments, and yet he literally just made a journey that I have seen and still barely believe. Just goes to show that elite players have something beyond the sum of their parts. I don't think you can breed elite in a laboratory. I think you can breed short stops, and even national competitors. But elite is something that can only be revealed, not manufactured.

Still, the journey to find out if you have it within yourself is a fun one.

Great response, and more excellent details. I hope the OP is still reading this and learning from your words of wisdom and history of experience.

My two examples of modern day pool elites are Jasmine and Albin Ouschan-where environment and training can turn you into world calibre talent.
Like you said, you can't breed what SVB has, so that fire needs to be there.
But if a brother and sister children of pool hall owners can rise to skill levels in their own way by training and being around the right people-then that is proof that it can happen of the environment is right. The Ko brothers are another example.

SVB is an anomaly in how much work he did on his own, but he has also stated he received a lot of coaching from his grandpa and his mom while growing up. So his environment was well suited for growth.

Like you said, you were limited by your region and the caliber of players there. That is extremely important factor that the OP.must understand in his five-year plan.

 

[SamLambert]

Quick post to say that I am still reading all the replies. Great feedback and opinions so far!

Very interesting read for the most part!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[one stroke]

Thank you for the feedback.

Looking back what I always felt limited my growth as a player was the lack of top players in the area I grew up in. Rochester, MN, had a few good players, but none of them were anything like elite. Greg Fix was nearly retired when I was playing. The other best players in town were short stops.

By the time I was 17-18 I was good enough to play with those players, but I was a ways off from pro speed. I truly feel I put in enough work during those years that had I been in a pool room with, say, Johnny Archer and some other truly world class players I could've sponged it up and gotten to another level before I was 20. I did watch accustats tapes again and again until I knew every word of the commentary and every shot they chose to shoot, this probably helped me get past that speed and is why I was able to be at least competitive in pro events.

But would Johnny Archer taking me under his wing have made me a world champion? I'm not sure. I was pretty driven. But I still doubt it. Maybe I would've ended up in that Gabe Ownen/Jeremy Jones range, or even a Corey Deuel/Rodney Morris range. Good enough to win a few big tournaments and get known, but not world championship level. I bet I could've gotten somewhere in there. But elite, I'm not sure I was ever wired to where that would've been possible. Deep down I don't know if I ever believed I could do that, I used my doubt to motivate me and that drives you a long way, but I'm not sure if it would've allowed me to really step up to the highest level.

A coach would've been useful, but without playing the highest caliber of players I don't know it would've worked.

I can see a combination...playing top players in your home room, then working with a coach who travels with you as you play a lot of international events. I think that would be the best shot...but even still, it's a inconceivably difficult undertaking and one that would leave most players in that notch under range, with Hunter Lombardo or Stevie Moore.

That all said, you've got SVB, who just hit balls in his basement in the middle of nowhere. No top players, only bar box tournaments, and yet he literally just made a journey that I have seen and still barely believe. Just goes to show that elite players have something beyond the sum of their parts. I don't think you can breed elite in a laboratory. I think you can breed short stops, and even national competitors. But elite is something that can only be revealed, not manufactured.

Still, the journey to find out if you have it within yourself is a fun one.

Shane was learning pool from the time he was proped up in a captains chair at 18 months old in his grandfathers pool hall ,, this is common among all the young guns of today all of them Berg ,Sky , Oscar , Morra , Wu , Ko 1n2 all were well on thier way to greatness before they popped thier first pimple

A teenager or younger has superior learning ability to even a later teen ,,
I don't think anyone would dispute if someone had world class training at 13 if they could be pro by 18 ,,



1

 

[Tin Man]

exposure to top play

Shane was learning pool from the time he was proped up in a captains chair at 18 months old in his grandfathers pool hall ,, this is common among all the young guns of today all of them Berg ,Sky , Oscar , Morra , Wu , Ko 1n2 all were well on thier way to greatness before they popped thier first pimple

A teenager or younger has superior learning ability to even a later teen ,,
I don't think anyone would dispute if someone had world class training at 13 if they could be pro by 18 ,,



1

Berg, Sky, Oscar and Morra are not elite. They are all champions, but they are a level apart. They may get there, but pool history has literally hundreds of players in this range, while only a couple of dozen that are elite.

I do get your point about SVB starting young and being coached, however his grandfather was not a world champion. Hence I tip my hat to SBV for being, if not 'self taught', self propelled. Most people need someone to push them to that level on the table. He pushed himself from the inside. This is absolutely incredible.

I think any teenager with appropriate drive from 12-18 could get to the first level. I would be against anyone from ever getting to the highest level. As an example I'm good friends with Jesse Engel, he got extremely good by 18 and is still a top player, but even after some nice moments he elected to go a different route. And he is a darn gifted player. He's still young and could potentially do something amazing in the years ahead if he got hungry again, but my point is that it's hard to become a world champ.

 

[accustatsfan]

To reach Shane's level is beyond amazing, but he had a lot more going for him than just hitting balls in his basement

He had access to top coaching, emotional support and practically unlimited table time from the time he was a baby. Once he was a teenager/adult he had financial backing to compete in tournaments and for gambling. With all of that said it doesn't mean he had to reach the level he plays, but it would be shocking if he hadn't at least reached regional pro level.

Tiger Woods story says Tiger won at every level before moving onto the next level. He didn't just pick up a club and win the Master's. He learned to win not just play a game.

I wish the OP luck and I enjoy this thread, but its far easier for a kid to accomplish what he's trying to do than an adult. I hope the OP keeps us updated on his journey just like the "DanPlan" golf story.

 

[eddie8842]

Berg, Sky, Oscar and Morra are not elite. They are all champions, but they are a level apart. They may get there, but pool history has literally hundreds of players in this range, while only a couple of dozen that are elite.

sky, berg and oscar aren't elite, but john morra is, he got to the last 8 in the world 9ball, got beat by ko pin yi and he was runner up in the china open, if that's not elite then idk what is, he's capable of hanging with and beating the best in the world

 

[7forlife]

what is still missing and extremely important in my opinion is a of the OP running through some fundaments drills or playing 6 racks of pool, three 9-ball and 3 8-ball. Cause if we are just going to go by text then based on how I played last night I think that i'm going to pay my entry into the US Open.

We need a video to see where he is so that we can judge his progress most accurately, we need a youtube channel to follow.