Do you use an aiming system or go by feel?

[ENGLISH!]

Hi cookie man. I did spend time at the table. That's how I realized that edge to A is edge to A is edge to A (with CTE at the same time of course). Stan seems to get a different shot angle using the same edge to A in his three big ball examples. A good teacher doesn't tell the student "too bad your an idiot." He tries to explain the problem areas in a different way until the light bulb comes on in the student.

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[Dan White]

Dan,

I hear you. I just don't like thinking of others wasting time looking for something that's just not there.

If they know going in that there are questions as to it's nature then fine, they know what they are getting into.

The answer to which you & others are looking has not ever come.

Best 2 Ya.

Let's presume there isn't a satisfactory answer... ever. I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I don't know if you have Mark Wilson's book, Play Great Pool. IMO the best thing ever written about playing and upping your game. Real no nonsense stuff. He makes a point that we've all experienced. In the course of playing and practicing, you will try certain things. Some of those things will appeal to you at first, but ultimately will be dead ends. It's pretty unavoidable. How many times do you see someone post something on the forum that is the greatest discovery second only to fire, only to fizzle out after two weeks. "Hey, I put my thumb over here and I couldn't miss for the rest of the night."

If someone tries CTE and for argument's sake it is a dead end for that player, he will still have learned things about pool that make him better. Yeah, maybe it ends up wasting some time but we all know that improvement is not a steady climb and sometimes you have to go backward in order to go forward even higher.

Unrealistic claims, as you know, are everywhere. Just watch commercials on late night TV. If you are convinced that CTE is being misrepresented then you are free to add a disclaimer and they are free to prove you wrong. It's a free world but in the end just playing pool with a focus on improvement will eventually lead to better play one way or another.

 

[cookie man]

No, the whole pivot issue is different from the issue I'm discussing (unless Stan is doing something with the pivot that he isn't telling us, which is doesn't look like).

Here is my original post. The second link takes you to Stan's video:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5316560&postcount=824

"OK, so John, or somebody PLEASE make me a believer by showing me how to understand why Stan can't fix the edges of the cue ball just like he did with the green ball?"
So Dan i'm assuming this is your question. He did fix the edges of the cue ball once he got his visuals in the proper place.
This is a part that people have trouble with but when the balls move what you look for stays the same, ctel and edge to a or b, but they line up in a unique way for each shot. Yes you need to know where the pocket is to pick the correct visual, while learning anyway.

 

[Neil]

How about this, just to make sure we are on the same page... Can you state in your own words what it is that I have trouble with in Stan's video? Sometimes people argue right past each other because they are talking about different things.

1. You say no one answers you, yet you have received detailed pms from several people that you have discarded.

2. You say Stan's youtube videos don't explain it all perfectly for you. News for you- they are supplemental videos, not main course videos. Why are you complaining that the free supplemental videos don't contain everything that the for sale main course offers? And then basically condemning the entire system because an addendum didn't cover everything. Not very fair on your part.

3. The system is not a magic pill. However, if you simply follow the steps, which step one is discard what you are now doing, you will receive an AHA moment where it all falls into place, and you then see that it is exactly as it was described. That AHA moment takes time to get to.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yall do know in the real world.....spheres, ie balls do not have edges, just a surface.

A cube has edges.

Agreed, Greg.

You're correct & one can see that objective edge of a cube from 'wherever'.

But... from where one stands & looks at a ball, a sphere, one sees the 'circumference' of the 2 dimensional 'visual' picture of the circle that is perpendicular to their line of sight & for intent purposes a circle has an 'edge'.

That said if one moves all changes & one sees a different 'edge' & that is why it is technically not objective.

Two individuals standing in different locations will see different 'edges'.

I know you know this. I was just elaborating for any innocent bystanders.

Best 2 Ya.

edge
ej/Submit
noun
1.
the outside limit of an object, area, or surface; a place or part farthest away from the center of something.
"a willow tree at the water's edge"
synonyms: border, boundary, extremity, fringe, margin, side; More

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...when the balls move what you look for stays the same, ctel and edge to a or b, but they line up in a unique way for each shot

So they're the same but different, and you'll know it when you see it. What could be more clear?

pj
chgo

 

[cookie man]

Two individuals standing in different locations will see different 'edges'.

Which person sees the objective edge,lol.

 

[Dan White]

We aren't on the same page. At this point I don't even care what you have an issue with. I push CTE because it works and because of a promise to Hal Houle.

Well I'm sorry you've decided to take your marbles and go home. It would seem to me that "pushing CTE" also involves answering questions that people have about the method. You could have saved me a lot of effort had you just said you didn't entertain questions but that Stan welcomes them.

Stan is easy to reach and if you don't want to do that and instead argue with a cheerleader go ahead.

I'll get in touch with Stan and will report back.

Again, nothing said on here matters, CTE is a legitimate method that works. Aside from Stan most of the top instructors in the United States teach some form of ball to ball aiming that is derived from Hal's methods.

To paraphrase a well worn saying, 'I can lead a player to knowledge but I can't make them think'.

Thanks again, I think.

 

[Neil]

Agreed, Greg.

You're correct & one can see that objective edge of a cube from 'wherever'.

But... from where one stands & looks at a ball, a sphere, one sees the 'circumference' of the 2 dimensional 'visual' picture of the circle that is perpendicular to their line of sight & for intent purposes a circle has an 'edge'.

That said if one moves all changes & one sees a different 'edge' & that is why it is technically not objective.

Two individuals standing in different locations will see different 'edges'.

I know you know this. I was just elaborating for any innicent bystanders.

Best 2 Ya.

edge
ej/Submit
noun
1.
the outside limit of an object, area, or surface; a place or part farthest away from the center of something.
"a willow tree at the water's edge"
synonyms: border, boundary, extremity, fringe, margin, side; More

Thanks for pointing out that you still don't know what objective means. It has to do with ones perspective. In other words, where one is actually standing. So, the edges of the cb are objective.

 

[cookie man]

So they're the same but different, and you'll know it when you see it. What could be more clear?

pj
chgo

Yea twist it PJ.

 

[8pack]

Balls are pocketed by sending the cueball down the shot line.

This all reminds me of trying to get my six year old to eat new things. Just try it doesn't work on her either. After years of trying to get her to eat apples she finally tried one and now loves apples.

Trippy how hard it is to convince forum readers to try new things designed to help them play better.

Knockers are liked those who picket abortion clinics trying to convince women not to do what the woman feels is best for their own life.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Really...your pretty intelligent.

 

[ENGLISH!]

John, I hate to tarnish your reputation, but I like your style. You're a real pisser. I have a table in my basement that I can get to in about 45 seconds, I have tried the CTE system as best I've learned on video. My background and degree is in chemical engineering, so I know my critical thinking skills are solid enough to understand CTE. Stan stammers his way through one section of one video (with all due respect) that I'd like to get a better understanding of. Instead I get cryptic half explanations from people who don't bother to answer a follow up question (not necessarily you). And after all that I am the one with the bias! :duck:

Regards,

Dan,

Get use to it until you high tail it out of Dodge.

Best Regards.

 

[JB Cases]

Let's presume there isn't a satisfactory answer... ever. I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I don't know if you have Mark Wilson's book, Play Great Pool. IMO the best thing ever written about playing and upping your game. Real no nonsense stuff. He makes a point that we've all experienced. In the course of playing and practicing, you will try certain things. Some of those things will appeal to you at first, but ultimately will be dead ends. It's pretty unavoidable. How many times do you see someone post something on the forum that is the greatest discovery second only to fire, only to fizzle out after two weeks. "Hey, I put my thumb over here and I couldn't miss for the rest of the night."

If someone tries CTE and for argument's sake it is a dead end for that player, he will still have learned things about pool that make him better. Yeah, maybe it ends up wasting some time but we all know that improvement is not a steady climb and sometimes you have to go backward in order to go forward even higher.

Unrealistic claims, as you know, are everywhere. Just watch commercials on late night TV. If you are convinced that CTE is being misrepresented then you are free to add a disclaimer and they are free to prove you wrong. It's a free world but in the end just playing pool with a focus on improvement will eventually lead to better play one way or another.

And the best player on Mark's university team uses ProOne/CTE and has many national championships under his belt.

CTE isn't a dead end. No one on Mark's team can beat Landon including Mark.

In fact every player that has ever played on any Mosconi Cup team ever would have trouble beating Landon Shuffett.

I will repeat what I have said plenty of times in this thread. I will bet on Stan Shuffett in a shot making contest with any breathing human. I don't say that lightly. It includes every professional player living.

 

[ENGLISH!]

and the real world the edge of an object is the outermost discernable point. As in a knife's edge.

The "edge" of a sphere is certainly more easily visible than any "point" on it.

10 out of ten people on the street would be able to find the edge of a sphere from any viewing angle more precisely then they would be able to identify the exact center on the surface of that sphere from any angle.

AND all 10 would see a completely different edge, that is why the 'edge' of a sphere is not technically objective.

 

[ENGLISH!]

While I think we're in agreement on many things regarding CTE, I have to reluctantly disagree with the above.

...If you could send me a PM and explain it all, I'd appreciate it. :grin:

Jim

Yeah,

I'd like that too.

I think he was just complementing your ability for logical reasoning.

Best Regards,
Rick

 

[JB Cases]

Thanks again, I think.

I answered your questions as best I could. Wasn't good enough for you and I can live with that.

I just don't understand a mentality that refuses to go to a source when one is easily available. I already said a dozen times that I am just a student of this method and a lazy one at that.

So why you would pin your acceptance or refusal to try CTE based on whether I give you "customer service" that satisfies you is beyond me.

People can go to the videos in my sig line and ascertain for themselves if the demonstrations they see are enough to try it or not. With about a half million views combined you will hopefully understand why the paltry views on this thread don't matter to me any more. Everything written about CTE pro and con on AZB doesn't matter because YouTube vids are what is driving interest.

These discussions here are just for fun. And for me it gets my logo and links viewed more often which sells more cases. Every time a knocker posts another knock I get to answer them.

Ciao, late for my match.

 

[Dan White]

All good things come with a price. This system requires work. Much less work than years of feel does, but still work. Most are not willing to pay the price for it. They try a couple of shots, and give up. Their loss.

Neil, have you ever spent 2 to three hours a night, plus 6 or more hours on the weekends, for weeks at a time shooting ONE shot over and over in order to make stroke improvements? Have you ever recognized that you had some fundamental stroke flaws so stopped playing for 3 years and devoted that time to eliminating those flaws? Well, that's how I approach the game.

Nobody spoon feeds me anything on the pool table and I don't expect it. I'm not going to get into flame wars with anybody in this discussion. It doesn't lead to anywhere good so I stopped doing that years ago. I do react when someone who doesn't know me writes me off as intellectually lazy. You are reading me wrong on that note, FYI.

 

[cookie man]

AND all 10 would see a completely different edge, that is why the 'edge' of a sphere is not technically objective.

It would be objective for each person when they are told exactly which edge to look at..

 

[Dan White]

"OK, so John, or somebody PLEASE make me a believer by showing me how to understand why Stan can't fix the edges of the cue ball just like he did with the green ball?"
So Dan i'm assuming this is your question. He did fix the edges of the cue ball once he got his visuals in the proper place.
This is a part that people have trouble with but when the balls move what you look for stays the same, ctel and edge to a or b, but they line up in a unique way for each shot. Yes you need to know where the pocket is to pick the correct visual, while learning anyway.

OK, cookie man, thanks for engaging me in this on the forum. Stick with me on this... Stan says ETA is the correct visual for each of the 3 shots, although it is a bit of a stretch for the last shot. He has trouble finding the visual at first, and then gets it. I don't get why the location of the pocket changes anything. When I try this set up, ETA is the same for all 3 shots. In fact, it is impossible to find ETA and CTE from any other place but just one standing position and that position is the same for all 3 shots when I try it. What is Stan doing that I am missing?

 

[Straightpool_99]

OK, cookie man, thanks for engaging me in this on the forum. Stick with me on this... Stan says ETA is the correct visual for each of the 3 shots, although it is a bit of a stretch for the last shot. He has trouble finding the visual at first, and then gets it. I don't get why the location of the pocket changes anything. When I try this set up, ETA is the same for all 3 shots. In fact, it is impossible to find ETA and CTE from any other place but just one standing position and that position is the same for all 3 shots when I try it. What is Stan doing that I am missing?

You need to move one dimension over.