Gradual Acceleration
- Thread starter Pidge
- Start date
Hi PJ,
Some myths here to wade in, but was wondering about the acceleration of the CB as it departs the OB with a high rate of draw spin compared to departing with low to moderate spin.
From throw friction formulas we know that friction, or the relative force component of friction decreases when the relative surfaces move more quickly relative to one another. Dr. Dave is well acquainted with the actual formula's used, perhaps he could add some insights here too.
Just wonder if anyone has considered or done any math regarding the relative amounts of friction for a high spinning CB compared to a low to moderate spinning one, perhaps in terms of time to grip, rate of acceleration, along the lines that a rapidly spinning CB may in fact accelerate more slowly in the first half second than one spinning at half the rate (hit not as low and or as hard).
Perhaps another descriptive mechanism would be required to juxtapose the differences in a meaningful way.
FWIW, it's pretty easy to reproduce Hendry's shot with some silicone and a firm very low shot.
Cheers,
Colin
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Sure, Mitch - thanks for not taking offense at the correction.
But don't take my word for it - for more technical info visit Dr. Dave's webpages (that and listening to people like Dave on here is how I learned):
http://billiards.colostate.edu/
http://dr-dave-billiards.com/
pj
chgo
Your description sounds simple enough and I think the key is found in the pause at the back of the stroke. I think many of you are missing Pidge's point in this thread. He's saying you can (or maybe should) start your forward stroke slowly and THEN pick up speed.
I take issue with the idea that you can have two different thoughts during the forward stroke. The first thought being to move the cue forward slowly and the 2nd being to go ahead and reach the needed velocity. If someone is purposely slowing down their cue on the forward stroke for any amount of time they will then have to more quickly accelerate their cue to reach the needed velocity. Why not just have ONE smooth accelerating stroke?
***Edit to add***
Maybe I'm reading this too literally. Not sure.
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I'm not an expert on this area, though aware of some of the conclusions. Dr.Dave has collected a lot of info on various testings.
But I think I understand where your friend is coming from. When we hit a shot sweetly, the feel of the shot lingers in our mind. When we don't hit a ball sweetly with a lot of spin, our brain instantly diverts to other thoughts.
Just a possibility. There is a limit to what we can comprehend by feel and experience I guess, without rigorous testing or study thereof.
Cheers,
Colin
Perhaps I didn't explain very well... It was quite late when I wrote the op.
Focusing on starting the cue very slowly for the first inch, maybe less if you have a short bridge takes lots, and I mean lots of practice. I originally started with it to recreate Hendry's shot as a child, but I found I was able to control the straightness of the stroke on the delivery much much better. It stops me from clenching the grip at the transition, stops my forearm and biceps from tensing and overall allows for a much crisper hit on the cue ball. All the previous are what makes a player able to generate a lot of spin. I don't expect any player to get this right away. It took me months to get used to it. It helps if you have a noticeable back pause. The slow starts forces you not to 'blow your load' too soon in a Cueing kind of way. I find it harder to be decelerating at contact than accelerating the cue, and I find it also forces you to cue right through the cue ball and follow through naturally.
Here's a quote from Bob Jewett on Dr. Dave's website (emphasis mine):
"Once the cue ball contacts the object ball, the friction will allow the draw to take. Less friction just means that it will take longer for the cue ball to come up to full speed, but the final speed of the cue ball drawing back will be nearly the same regardless of the actual value of the friction ball-to-cloth."
pj
chgo
P.S. Dr. Dave also says (somewhere around there) that maximum draw effect for a long shot requires a hit somewhat above maximum low. I don't recall the reason for that.
I agree there are some advantages to a complete pause at the back of the back swing.
That said, I don't think it's perfect as a means of developing tempo for stroke speed, when a little movement might help one feel more in touch with the cue and the initiation of movement.
And in terms to power, in throwing events, where power is the no.1 concern, a static start during delivery reduces power. Think of a vertical leap as an example. A static start produces less force and height than dropping into the position before jumping.
Colin
People seem to think pool is a power game... It couldn't be further from the truth. The break for example... Especially svb in 10 ball... He taps it but generates a great spread because his break technique is ridiculous. It's a game of technique, especially with the inventions of lighting fast cloth and very bouncy rails. Granted you do need some power, but look at Judd. He is a scrawny fella but Han really power the ball in because his technique is flawless.
This particular technique by no means is for everyone. It's probably for a select few. But it's what's helped me generate lots of spin with very little power.
I'm surprised it took you months to get used to it, but we each are different. It does produce a much better stroke, and a more accurate stroke.
Far more important in pool than power is accuracy. Take a draw shot for example. To get the most draw, one must hit very near the miscue limit. If one has a jerking motion to start the forward stroke, they will not be accurate in tip placement on the cb. So, they will either miscue, or will hit the cb higher than they intended to. If they hit higher, then naturally they think they need more power to get the same amount of draw as just hitting the cb lower and accurately would produce.
I'm not surprised at all. It's not a very natural thing to do and I highly doubt there are many on this forum that do it or have even played around with it.
Pidge isn't just talking about pausing the cue and having a slow delivery. He's taking about taking it to the next level.
He mentioned this technique a few months back and I played around with it but for the life of me I couldn't figure out how it was even possible to do.
I was 13...
It was over 10 years ago, I say months but in reality I can't quite remember. It definitely took a long time so was probably over the course of a year or two before it became second nature.
Just a very rough guess, but the average snooker potting stroke would be at least twice the velocity of the average 9-ball potting stroke. Possibly 300%... among pro games anyway.
Colin
Because your cue is never level, the butt is always higher than the tip, especially on draw shots think of the slow start as letting the butt naturally swing for the first inch before you use any muscles to drive the cue forward. If you try to control the cue for the first inch with your arm then it is hard to do. As you pull the arm all the way back let it naturally return the cue forwards before getting the biceps involved. This was like a light bulb moment for me when trying to master it.
There are probably quite a number on here that have toyed with it or used it because I believe a number of the instructors on here also teach it.
All it is, is bringing the cue back slowly, making sure it stays on the line you chose. Then, pause. When ready to go forward, you just start slowly to keep the cue on the same line, then pick up speed during the stroke.
All it really is, is a controlled start to the forward stroke, instead of a sudden movement to the forward stroke.
Dr. Dave has some good graphs on this. Interestingly, on longer power draw shots, the optimum is around 80% max offset as I recall, and the curve levels considerably beyond 70%. When nearer to the OB, around 90% tip offset is maximal.
In terms of wanting a ball to come back straighter, than may differ to some degree on longer shots.
That said, many hit their draw shots at less than 70% max offset and hence often don't seen the kind of results pros do. Not to mention, their accuracy declines considerably when they shoot over 14mph, where pros can execute this kind of speed, with accurate control with more ease.
Colin
I generally agree Pidge, regarding speed control, but it's amazing what some players can adapt to.
Here's Cliff Thorburn making the first TV 147, using at that time a very short punch stroke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE0n_7i_VLE
Colin
OK, I was mistaken about hitting near the miscue limit. But, the same principle applies in hitting it at the optimal point. With a jerky stroke, one is much less likely to hit the cb accurately.