AccurRack Plus 9 On The Spot = Trouble

[Bbutler]

Disagree with this. All formats using the templates remove the skilled power break shot from the game. It turns instead into a matter of either knowing that the wing ball will go no matter how you hit them and then playing position on the 1-ball, or if breaking from the box then playing some sort of cut break to get the wing ball in that way. Basically the days of the 'thunderball' breaks are gone forever, and that's a huge shame because that was maybe the best part of 9-ball - and by the way one of the hardest shots to learn how to do consistently. But now it's gone forever because of a 5-cent piece of plastic. What a waste.

And sorry but watching pros trick break and then run nine balls carries about as much interest for most serious fans as watching a pro golfer play a par 3 course. Sure you get to see some good shots and low scores, but it's just not the appropriate challenge for players at that level. And the whole notion of 'it's the same for both players' doesn't really apply because while that is true, it's not as much about the players as it is about the fans. A PGA event on a par 3 course would still be a good competition, and it may even come down to a really close finish, and it might have a deserving winner, but the bottom line is it just wouldn't be as fun to watch as an event played on a 7500-yard championship course with teeth on every hole.

And that after all is the point of the exercise. A pro sport can't exist without people paying to watch it. Period.

Teach right now I have you down for room owner of the year but I would like to hear your specific concerns also. Personally I think there are 2 great ways to play 9 Ball;

1 Break from anywhere, rack with a template and alternate break is one that makes for a true break and run out contest with players trading blows.

2 This format, rack the 9 on the spot, with a template, break box and I'm okay with alternate or winner breaks here.

#1 We're all getting as close to the same rack as possible, we all know the corner ball is going and all have the same task of playing shape on the 1B following up with a run out.
#2 Has 2 sides; The first kind of goes back to how 9B was in 60's 70's and early 80's, Smash'em and squat it hoping you luck one in and get a shot on the lowest numbered ball OR stay with a more controlled break and try to make a tough wing ball and the the 1 in the side (which by the way is a skill shot, unlike a corner ball which is a wired shot).

9 on the spot, template, break box is a good formula. It was used in the Mosconi Cup and I thought it went gr8. It can still be cheated but the cheats will stand out like sore thumbs and I will gladly help anyone at the US Open with this, players or staff. The corner ball is not suppose to go I don't care how good your cut break is. It can go, I know but if you're making it consistently and with a little bit of pace, you're leaving spaces in the rack which is tough to do using a template, much tougher than using a traditional rack.

I'm still sick that I couldn't support the ppv this past weekend to watch how things went at what I'm sure was a gr8 event at Gotham City Billiards. Atlarge, we got stats? Corner ball stats would be gr8 if you gottem?

 

[The Renfro]

Disagree with this. All formats using the templates remove the skilled power break shot from the game. It turns instead into a matter of either knowing that the wing ball will go no matter how you hit them and then playing position on the 1-ball, or if breaking from the box then playing some sort of cut break to get the wing ball in that way. Basically the days of the 'thunderball' breaks are gone forever, and that's a huge shame because that was maybe the best part of 9-ball - and by the way one of the hardest shots to learn how to do consistently. But now it's gone forever because of a 5-cent piece of plastic. What a waste.

And sorry but watching pros trick break and then run nine balls carries about as much interest for most serious fans as watching a pro golfer play a par 3 course. Sure you get to see some good shots and low scores, but it's just not the appropriate challenge for players at that level. And the whole notion of 'it's the same for both players' doesn't really apply because while that is true, it's not as much about the players as it is about the fans. A PGA event on a par 3 course would still be a good competition, and it may even come down to a really close finish, and it might have a deserving winner, but the bottom line is it just wouldn't be as fun to watch as an event played on a 7500-yard championship course with teeth on every hole.

And that after all is the point of the exercise. A pro sport can't exist without people paying to watch it. Period.

Accu-Rack is actually polyester so the balls skid, slide and roll coming off of it differently at different speeds... The sheet goods alone are wayyyy more than the plastic rack material and cutting combined...

We used them in the Music City Open in 2011... Danny Smith won it and they were swinging from the heels.. The soft breakers exited before the finals...... There were several dry breaks in the finals where they actually overhit the break on the barbox and the wing went to the side rail JUST like it supposed to......

 

[Bbutler]

Accu-Rack is actually polyester so the balls skid, slide and roll coming off of it differently at different speeds... The sheet goods alone are wayyyy more than the plastic rack material and cutting combined...

We used them in the Music City Open in 2011... Danny Smith won it and they were swinging from the heels.. The soft breakers exited before the finals...... There were several dry breaks in the finals where they actually overhit the break on the barbox and the wing went to the side rail JUST like it supposed to......

I'm not going to argue that it's a nice product -- it gives a perfect rack just as advertised, and it's easy to roll up in your case to boot. I was only reporting on my experiences in my testing, as I believe the OP was, and my opinion of racking templates in general.

To me all of these hoops that the pool world has to jump through to keep nine ball relevant got old more than 20 years ago. First it was the break box, then it was eliminating soft breaks, then it was this and that, and for that whole time the answer has always been the same; 9-ball is flawed, the corner ball goes in every time and it ruins the competition -- not for everyone, just for pretty much the most elite players in the sport, but that's who we want to watch. So why keep doing it? Switch to 10-ball and get back to just playing the game as is without all the hoops.

It's going to happen one day. So why not just do it today and get it over with?

 

[gunzby]

Please be more specific -- what problems?

Depends on what pattern you use, but you can easily make the 1 in the side with position on the 2 in the same side, or to the corner.

 

[Joe T]

I'm not going to argue that it's a nice product -- it gives a perfect rack just as advertised, and it's easy to roll up in your case to boot. I was only reporting on my experiences in my testing, as I believe the OP was, and my opinion of racking templates in general.

To me all of these hoops that the pool world has to jump through to keep nine ball relevant got old more than 20 years ago. First it was the break box, then it was eliminating soft breaks, then it was this and that, and for that whole time the answer has always been the same; 9-ball is flawed, the corner ball goes in every time and it ruins the competition -- not for everyone, just for pretty much the most elite players in the sport, but that's who we want to watch. So why keep doing it? Switch to 10-ball and get back to just playing the game as is without all the hoops.

It's going to happen one day. So why not just do it today and get it over with?

I agree with the 10 Ball advice, been promoting it since 1999 but the discussion is on 9b so I presented what I thought the 2 best ways were to play it. Feel free to offer what you think the best way to play is because its going to be played. Templates give both players as close to the same rack as possible and that is huge and nothing like par 3 to 7500 yards. We've all seen what happens without it, cheating, arguments and a lot of unhappy people. I don't think the Us Open 9 Ball Championship is going away so we might as well keep working towards a solution that keeps it fair for the players and fun for the fans.

With the 9 on the spot you may get to see that power break come back to 9 Ball because I believe the cut break isn't that effective with this format and a lot of players are going to throw in the towel on it and start cracking them.

 

[The Renfro]

Depends on what pattern you use, but you can easily make the 1 in the side with position on the 2 in the same side, or to the corner.

2 is required to be in the back....

 

[gunzby]

2 is required to be in the back....

Ah well that mucks it up a bit

 

[Joe T]

Depends on what pattern you use, but you can easily make the 1 in the side with position on the 2 in the same side, or to the corner.

Agree and disagree. Can be done but I don't think its easy. The 1 is very playable but it does take a lot more skill than the wired corner ball does so I see it as a step up.

 

[The Renfro]

I agree with the 10 Ball advice, been promoting it since 1999 but the discussion is on 9b so I presented what I thought the 2 best ways were to play it. Feel free to offer what you think the best way to play is because its going to be played. Templates give both players as close to the same rack as possible and that is huge and nothing like par 3 to 7500 yards. We've all seen what happens without it, cheating, arguments and a lot of unhappy people. I don't think the Us Open 9 Ball Championship is going away so we might as well keep working towards a solution that keeps it fair for the players and fun for the fans.

With the 9 on the spot you may get to see that power break come back to 9 Ball because I believe the cut break isn't that effective with this format and a lot of players are going to throw in the towel on it and start cracking them.

Joe I think you need to watch your 10ball video.. I have 6 active balls playing 10ball to make... 2 balls behind the headball... The headball IF you know the trick... The 2 wings on the back row 2 and 4 rails.. Plus the straight back next to the wing.... Most players just are ignorant on how to break 10ball regardless of your efforts.. The difference in a pro that knows and 1 who doesn't might be worth the 7 ball if all else is equal....

 

[AtLarge]

... I'm still sick that I couldn't support the ppv this past weekend to watch how things went at what I'm sure was a gr8 event at Gotham City Billiards. Atlarge, we got stats? Corner ball stats would be gr8 if you gottem?

Sorry, Joe, I didn't watch that event.

 

[Joe T]

Joe I think you need to watch your 10ball video.. I have 6 active balls playing 10ball to make... 2 balls behind the headball... The headball IF you know the trick... The 2 wings on the back row 2 and 4 rails.. Plus the straight back next to the wing.... Most players just are ignorant on how to break 10ball regardless of your efforts.. The difference in a pro that knows and 1 who doesn't might be worth the 7 ball if all else is equal....

We want playable, we don't want wired or anti wired lol unless wired for both.

 

[RiverCity]

100% agree. Plus.....earl put together 10 or more in a row in the pre rack template days.

9 ball is also a game that can be picked up by the masses a lot easier and may be better to promote the sport. The general public who we should want to be watching will be more likely to watch a hard breaking, jump shot taking, rack running match

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Bingo! Safety play, while an important part of the game, is only interesting to people who truly understand it. Watching 2 players jockey for bih gets old. Seeing a player put down a 5 pack........ thats something to watch.

See how many you can make before you miss. Not bunt the ball around for 10 minutes and still be in the first game. The public can relate to 'see how many you can make'. I dont know if they can relate to finer points until they 'get' them, if that makes sense.

 

[Colonel]

Disagree with this. All formats using the templates remove the skilled power break shot from the game. It turns instead into a matter of either knowing that the wing ball will go no matter how you hit them and then playing position on the 1-ball, or if breaking from the box then playing some sort of cut break to get the wing ball in that way. Basically the days of the 'thunderball' breaks are gone forever, and that's a huge shame because that was maybe the best part of 9-ball - and by the way one of the hardest shots to learn how to do consistently. But now it's gone forever because of a 5-cent piece of plastic. What a waste.

And sorry but watching pros trick break and then run nine balls carries about as much interest for most serious fans as watching a pro golfer play a par 3 course. Sure you get to see some good shots and low scores, but it's just not the appropriate challenge for players at that level. And the whole notion of 'it's the same for both players' doesn't really apply because while that is true, it's not as much about the players as it is about the fans. A PGA event on a par 3 course would still be a good competition, and it may even come down to a really close finish, and it might have a deserving winner, but the bottom line is it just wouldn't be as fun to watch as an event played on a 7500-yard championship course with teeth on every hole.

And that after all is the point of the exercise. A pro sport can't exist without people paying to watch it. Period.

What you fail to realize is what YOU like to watch & what others like to watch may not be one in the same.

9 ball is meant to be a run & gun game with a dash of luck, it was always a gamblers game. Only in the last 15 years or so with the arrival of more Europeans in the sport has it become what it is now. A bunch of slow rolling & safety playing & those style players whining about the break first instituting a box, then alternating breaks & then finally moving the 9 to the spot & lastly Accu-racks in an attempt to try to overcome players that break better.

Charges of the older format of winner breaks, 1 on the spot & breaking from anywhere not being "fair", that it's a breaking contest, blah, blah, blah.

The wing ball was always automatic, so what. Again this is supposed to be a run & gun game, that was always its appeal & I for one hate the bastardization of the game that has transpired. I preferred it when it was a game of big breakers & true ball strikers.

 

[RiverCity]

What you fail to realize is what YOU like to watch & what others like to watch may not be one in the same.

9 ball is meant to be a run & gun game with a dash of luck, it was always a gamblers game. Only in the last 15 years or so with the arrival of more Europeans in the sport has it become what it is now. A bunch of slow rolling & safety playing & those style players whining about the break first instituting a box, then alternating breaks & then finally moving the 9 to the spot & lastly Accu-racks in an attempt to try to overcome players that break better.

Charges of the older format of winner breaks, 1 on the spot & breaking from anywhere not being "fair", that it's a breaking contest, blah, blah, blah.

The wing ball was always automatic, so what. Again this is supposed to be a run & gun game, that was always its appeal & I for one hate the bastardization of the game that has transpired. I preferred it when it was a game of big breakers & true ball strikers.

Tap tap tap.

 

[gunzby]

Agree and disagree. Can be done but I don't think its easy. The 1 is very playable but it does take a lot more skill than the wired corner ball does so I see it as a step up.

I definitely agree with you on that.

I have a question that I don't think I saw on your first DVD. I was practicing soft breaking like when Donnie Mills played SVB. I wasn't using a template, but the table was racking and breaking very well. My rack was

1
72
693
48
5

I was going for the 6. Every now and then I'd take the six and the four shot in right after that. The crack had to be really small, but I never caught what it was

 

[Johnnyt]

Most pool players know that Texas Nine-Ball is way too easy for the top pros on ANY size table, with any rack. You can make it a bit more challenging with a ref that knows how to rack and take control of the game. We in the U.S are one. if not the only country that has one or two refs for 10 tables or more. The original 9 ball rules made for a much better game. You had to think a bit, not just connect dots. If you like shoot...hide...get BIH...runout, then it's fine I guess. Why worry about TV in the U.S? Johnnyt

 

[Danimal]

With the 9 on the spot you may get to see that power break come back to 9 Ball because I believe the cut break isn't that effective with this format and a lot of players are going to throw in the towel on it and start cracking them.

This is exactly what I observed last weekend at Gotham. With the nine on the spot, triangle rack and breakbox, Thorsten, in particular, couldn't get anything going with soft and cut breaks. Subsequently he was falling behind early in matches.

He abandoned that strategy and went to a harder, 10-ball style break. He nearly came back on Darren in his first match, and made a good run on the one-loss side of the chart afterwards.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

This is one of those situations where you allow the market to dictate the rules. If 9-ball is such a horrible game, players will stop going to 9-ball tournaments. If 10-ball proves to be a better game than 9-ball, you'll see better turn-out at 10-ball tournaments and fewer promoters sponsoring 9-ball.

In my opinion, each game has its pros and cons and I would be happy to see certain aspects of each tinkered with. Like, deciding who breaks, where the balls are racked, how fouls are handled, etc. So long as the rules are announced in advance and no changes are made, people will have time to make a decision to play or not and prepare accordingly.

 

[Teacherman]

Actually, the players follow the money.....not the game.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Actually, the players follow the money.....not the game.

I think we're both right. Of course, the elites will show-up to any event so long as the money justifies it. If you're looking to fill a field larger than that, you'll need to entice the second tier of players. That's when the specifics can become a factor and make no mistake of it, the donors of the world are often the largest fund-raisers in professional pool.