Is Elbow Drop after Tip Contact a Bad Thing?
- Thread starter 336Robin
- Start date
Your 'logic' is totally illogical & misplaced.
I did not even look at the video, but I will & adjust if need be, but I doubt it.
Her method is specifically 'natural' to her specific situation.
Would you suggest that Kareem or Wilt shoot pool with a side arm motion.
This is a very good example of an ulterior motive vs logic & the attempt to make 'models' fit the 'argument' & the ulterior motive.
You are not normally always as such, but your emotions seem to cloud your thinking & 'argument' at times.
Best Wishes to ALL.
PS If a full pendulum stroke is working well enough for you, that's fine. Please continue with it.
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I don't get the point of the illustration. How many players have there been who stroke entirely with their shoulder and a locked elbow hinge? Even Hoppe opened and closed his elbow - as well as using plenty of wrist and finger action - to straighten out his stroke.
There are advantages to dropping the butt and raising the tip at times. I find it a lot easier to execute a good force follow by dropping the elbow on the final stroke after addressing the CB at the equator. I picked this up from watching Earl, Shane, Corey, and several other top players do the same.
OTOH I find it easier to use just the elbow to get the tip to go lower so I can make a nice soft draw. So, it's not just different strokes for different folks, but different strokes for different shots... at least for most players.
Her stroke hinges at the elbow and shoulder, as it must in order for a sidearm stroke to be straight. If she could get her elbow directly over the cue a pendulum stroke could be straight for her (arcing only in the vertical plane), but a sidearm pendulum stroke will never be straight (arcing in the horizontal plane).
pj
chgo
Lol! You are a very funny fellow. FWIW I don't use, nor do I advocate, a "full pendulum stroke". My only ulterior motive is to show you that it can be a natural way to shoot for many folks, and is therefore, not necessarily contrived at all.
Also, to show you that the motion is not caused by gravity, because she's using a sidearm stroke (she can't clear the rails yet) and yet gets the same cue action that a vertical forearm achieves. You constant stressing that a pendulum describes an arc because of gravity (and therefore cannot be straight throughout the contact time) has no logical basis.
The stroke is not a real pendulum at all. If gravity alone was the driving force of the stroke, the fastest speed you could achieve would be the same as would be achieved in free-fall of the hand from the maximum height of the backstroke. Since this is only a few inches, the highest speed attainable through gravity alone would be a couple MPH at best. You should know that from all those physics courses you've taken.
It's called a pendulum stroke because it resembles the motion of a pendulum bob, and it's a lot easier to say than "fixed shoulder and hinged elbow stroke".
Hi Robin,
Good for you & yes the fundamentals must fit the intended type of stroke & that includes the connection to the cue. I'm glad you're playing better & well, but... if the plan is a piston type stroke, then the slightly 'choked up' position on the cue & the less than 90* relation of the arm to the cue & the elbow NATURALLY dropping as the cue moves in a 'straight' line are not necessarily faults or 'bad' things.
Watch the video of CJ playing Mizerak in one of CJ's earlier tournaments were they both shot over .980, I think, & you'll see what I mean.
There are front, back & mid engine racing cars.
Best 2 You & ALL.
PS Robin, as you well know or use to know, the word 'certified' by itself actually means very little. In fact, in some situations it actually means 'recognized'. If one wants to actually become 'certified' by the PBIAssociation, one has to pay another fee, etc. to obtain the actual 'certified' designation form the Association.
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Lol! You are a very funny fellow. FWIW I don't use, nor do I advocate, a "full pendulum stroke". My only ulterior motive is to show you that it can be a natural way to shoot for many folks, and is therefore, not necessarily contrived at all.
Also, to show you that the motion is not caused by gravity, because she's using a sidearm stroke (she can't clear the rails yet) and yet gets the same cue action that a vertical forearm achieves. You constant stressing that a pendulum describes an arc because of gravity (and therefore cannot be straight throughout the contact time) has no logical basis.
The stroke is not a real pendulum at all. If gravity alone was the driving force of the stroke, the fastest speed you could achieve would be the same as would be achieved in free-fall of the hand from the maximum height of the backstroke. Since this is only a few inches, the highest speed attainable through gravity alone would be a couple MPH at best. You should know that from all those physics courses you've taken.
It's called a pendulum stroke because it resembles the motion of a pendulum bob, and it's a lot easier to say than "fixed shoulder and hinged elbow stroke".
Apparently you have misunderstood or misinterpreted my use of the word gravity. I did not mean to & do not think that I have ever implied that the stroke is gravity driven. My references were to a true 'pendulum' as the model being a simple 'machine' that is gravity driven.
If the connection to the cue is not correct & is too influential on the cue, then a full pendulum stroke will not work as contrived. That is why the statements of 'let the cue do the work' is so often related to it along with the phase of 'just sort of let the cue sit or rest in the cradle of the hand'.
The intention is to only put an influence on the cue that is allowable by the friction between the cue & the hand.
SO... in a sense the full pendulum stroke IS dependent on gravity.
Best Wishes 2 You & All.
:thumbup2::thumbup2:
Pidge,
Topics only get 'heated' when personalities are put into play & disingenuous postings take place for ulterior motives.
When one gets jabbed, one usually responds in kind or with a right cross.
So far I don't see any real heating up. I just see some light sparring.
Best 2 You & ALL.
Either way, it's still a pathetic subject to argue over.
Perhaps.
But some don't want ANY of the other side of a coin to be shown...
or any possible 'fault' with 'their' side of the coin.
And IMO that is not a good thing.
Logical arguments are often a good thing.
When both sides are seen then individuals can make their own determinations as well that they should.
Blindly following can get one into some trouble in many aspects of life.
Best Wishes to You & ALL.
Lol.
You are the worst offender for not wanting to find fault with their side of the coin... And I mean it in the nicest way possible. All I ever seem to see from you is you arguing the toss over pointless little things because it doesn't agree with what you, Fran, Gene or CJ believe. I honestly believe you would blindly accept and follow what ever those 3 suggested. Logical arguments are never a good thing. It ends up going off topic, name calling and ruins the forum. Logical debates on the other hand, without the name calling and offending others are extremely healthy for this forum.
Rick,
I know you probably have good intentions most of the time, but you do seem to have a special knack for bringing out the worst in people. IMO, your continual barrage of bantering posts also diminishes the value of threads like this (to both existing users who would prefer spend time reading substantive and mature posts, and to possible new users who might stumble upon threads like this hoping to learn something and maybe contribute constructive ideas).
Sometimes, it seems like you just don't know when to stop.
Please read through this entire thread again and try to think how your posts (and the posts of people who respond to you in negative ways) might be perceived by an outsider than might be interested in joining the AZB community. I would hope that such an exercise might help you better understand how and why people relate to you the way they do.
Regards,
Dave
So you are giving him good reason for saying what he did. That says much about you too, sir.
You're timing is not good for me & I am not inclined to give you the time of day right now past this & will not 'banter' with you & your suggestive & baiting post.
You see, it takes one to instigate a reason for 'banter' & one to respond to the instigation of the other.
When I get hit... I hit back. There seems to be an over abundance of hypocrisy here with rather many members. They want to throw barbs but do not like it when their target responds in kind.
Best Wishes to You & ALL but ONE right now.
Correction:
it seems like you, and the people who continue to encourage and incite you, just don't know when to stop.
I sure hope the percentage of substantive and mature posts increases both in this thread and in the Main Forum as a whole in the near future.
Regards,
Dave
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No.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jEs776l1lW4#t=2357
Watch Chua run the whole rack.
On that 8-ball, to force follow, he dropped his elbow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jEs776l1lW4#t=2357
Watch Chua run the whole rack.
On that 8-ball, to force follow, he dropped his elbow.