This law will do nothing to help African Elephants. Your last sentence is unmitigated crap.
California Cue-Makers - No More Ivory......
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This law will do nothing to help African Elephants. Your last sentence is unmitigated crap.
Want to save the Elephants? Its not up to us its up to the Africans. When you have a farm and Jumbo comes in with his mates and eats your whole harvest its not a pretty sight.
The international set is going to Africa and loaning them money and taking the natural resources and developing the land. That is what is gonna kill all the Elephants.
Elephants and urban areas don't mix very well.
Shawn A, would you please explain to us how making a law (that is in essence only to feel better about yourself) will be effective? I mean, there is virtually zero demand for poached ivory here in the US...and since this is a pool forum I will go ahead and say ZERO demand for poached ivory for cues. There is no need for it. What few instances I have seen in the news here in the US involved foreign operations that were funneling the poached ivory through the US to the far east.
How has your country's total ivory ban helped the elephants? And other countries'? Please explain and show some examples.
Personally, I'm all tired of stupid and will do my best to point it out whenever I can. Our country already has laws in place against illegal ivory. It is retarded logic to think banning the sale of items which were made with legal preban ivory will help anything.
The "total ban approach" here will do nothing (zilch) to save the elephants. Only a heavy focus on conservation, education, monetizing the elephant will be successful. Their loss of habitat is their #1 enemy, along with the demand in the far east. This is not news...the information is out there if you take the time to look.
Meat is obviously not a necessity either, but I will damn sure be enjoying some this Thanksgiving holiday. Maybe after you people get your total ban of ivory done, you can come after my turkey.
This issue in the US is more about freedom and less about ivory.
How has your country's total ivory ban helped the elephants? And other countries'? Please explain and show some examples.
Personally, I'm all tired of stupid and will do my best to point it out whenever I can. Our country already has laws in place against illegal ivory. It is retarded logic to think banning the sale of items which were made with legal preban ivory will help anything.
The "total ban approach" here will do nothing (zilch) to save the elephants. Only a heavy focus on conservation, education, monetizing the elephant will be successful. Their loss of habitat is their #1 enemy, along with the demand in the far east. This is not news...the information is out there if you take the time to look.
Meat is obviously not a necessity either, but I will damn sure be enjoying some this Thanksgiving holiday. Maybe after you people get your total ban of ivory done, you can come after my turkey.
This issue in the US is more about freedom and less about ivory.
We should.
Some learned that decades ago.
Regulation and taxation work better.
Like on alcohol?
Small impact
I doubt an ivory ban will put any California cue makers out of business. It probably will result in some loss of income for those making high end cues with a bunch of ivory. There are choices in life so the cue maker will have to decide if it is still worth living in California. I don't see it causing many of them to move.
I doubt an ivory ban will put any California cue makers out of business. It probably will result in some loss of income for those making high end cues with a bunch of ivory. There are choices in life so the cue maker will have to decide if it is still worth living in California. I don't see it causing many of them to move.
Ivory?
Who needs ivory in their cues.
Cues are made to pocket balls. That's it!!! It's a tool.
Not to give people an idea of ones pocket book.
I'm happy for the ban. Wish it was world over.
Here's more on what I think of this:
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/03/ivory-wars/fay-text
Who needs ivory in their cues.
Cues are made to pocket balls. That's it!!! It's a tool.
Not to give people an idea of ones pocket book.
I'm happy for the ban. Wish it was world over.
Here's more on what I think of this:
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/03/ivory-wars/fay-text
If You Hate Ivory in Pool Cues, Then You're In Luck.......
I never said nor implied, but obviously some inferred, that CA cue-makers would relocate or close their shops.......but I do submit the really expensive custom cues will still be ordered by future clients specifying that ivory be used for the joint, ferrules, butt cap, inlays or rings......those orders will become lost to any CA cue-maker.
As far as cue values, I believe the customs already made by CA cue-makers that can't be made in the future with ivory will only appreciate in value......how much? Who knows but for the bigger names like Ernie G., EP, Tonkin. et al, their cues should increase in value and more than just nominally. How much would the final ivory laden cue coming out of their shops be worth.......the very last one with ivory....OMG........the last dinosaur so to speak.......IMO, it really should have added value.
JV made a comment that went largely unnoticed....."BTW NJ's ban is still up in the air as I understand it. There was a court case a few weeks ago... But it is on the docket, and not only in NJ. There are about 12 STATES thinking about the same nonsense."
I've tried pointing out this thread is intended to focus on the business aspects of the ivory ban. JV poignantly pointed out that other states are considering this same action about banning ivory. Don't wait until this new legislative movement reaches your state to become concerned because it will be too late. After 10 or 20 or 30 states ban the sale of ivory, will the pool industry finally wake up or will it be too late by then. The next step would evolve into enacting some equivalent new ivory ban at the federal level. This how bad laws get enacted.....from people snoozing during the movement & scurrying at the last minute trying to defeat the measure but alas, it's typically in vain.
So rather than pummel each other with rants and sarcasm,let's try addressing this issue in a constructive framework.......the ivory ban is real......get ready.......it's coming to a theater in your neighborhood sooner than you may think.........and if EP doesn't relocate his shop, I would love to own his very last flat ivory joint pool cue, especially if Ed remains active making cues after the ban takes effect 7/1/16. Anyone that ordered a cue from EP or Ernie G. and if you're still on a list awaiting the start of your cue's construction, uh......... maybe you had better check into getting any deposit back. The CA ivory ban is real and like I earlier wrote.......it's coming to your neighborhood sooner than you think.
Matt B.
I never said nor implied, but obviously some inferred, that CA cue-makers would relocate or close their shops.......but I do submit the really expensive custom cues will still be ordered by future clients specifying that ivory be used for the joint, ferrules, butt cap, inlays or rings......those orders will become lost to any CA cue-maker.
As far as cue values, I believe the customs already made by CA cue-makers that can't be made in the future with ivory will only appreciate in value......how much? Who knows but for the bigger names like Ernie G., EP, Tonkin. et al, their cues should increase in value and more than just nominally. How much would the final ivory laden cue coming out of their shops be worth.......the very last one with ivory....OMG........the last dinosaur so to speak.......IMO, it really should have added value.
JV made a comment that went largely unnoticed....."BTW NJ's ban is still up in the air as I understand it. There was a court case a few weeks ago... But it is on the docket, and not only in NJ. There are about 12 STATES thinking about the same nonsense."
I've tried pointing out this thread is intended to focus on the business aspects of the ivory ban. JV poignantly pointed out that other states are considering this same action about banning ivory. Don't wait until this new legislative movement reaches your state to become concerned because it will be too late. After 10 or 20 or 30 states ban the sale of ivory, will the pool industry finally wake up or will it be too late by then. The next step would evolve into enacting some equivalent new ivory ban at the federal level. This how bad laws get enacted.....from people snoozing during the movement & scurrying at the last minute trying to defeat the measure but alas, it's typically in vain.
So rather than pummel each other with rants and sarcasm,let's try addressing this issue in a constructive framework.......the ivory ban is real......get ready.......it's coming to a theater in your neighborhood sooner than you may think.........and if EP doesn't relocate his shop, I would love to own his very last flat ivory joint pool cue, especially if Ed remains active making cues after the ban takes effect 7/1/16. Anyone that ordered a cue from EP or Ernie G. and if you're still on a list awaiting the start of your cue's construction, uh......... maybe you had better check into getting any deposit back. The CA ivory ban is real and like I earlier wrote.......it's coming to your neighborhood sooner than you think.
Matt B.
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Cocaine is illegal in California. So is meth.
We have no cocaine or meth problems here.
We have no cocaine or meth problems here.
I'm happy that California is passing the ban and personally I'd be OK with the whole country passing the same ban. Investing in ivory ladden cues seems like a bad investment in the first place. I may sound like a dick, but I hope every ivory handled and ivory pointed cue owner looses their ass in potential insurance valuation.
For any cue makers that decide to leave, please don't come to Oregon, particularly the Portland area. The last few years of California's drought caused a northern migration which in turn has soured this fair city into the stomping grounds for economic migrants from all income brackets.
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What's even MORE comical is your argument holds NO WATER HERE IN THE US! I could give a rats behind about other countries. I live in the US and that is where all this nonsense is taking root. These laws do, again, NOTHING to help the ivory poaching crusade. NOTHING.
As for an answer to stop you from "laughing", I THINK Ivory is a phenomenal material to work with. Machines very well. I THINK it also has the best characteristics for feel, sound, and looks in pool cues TO ME and I LIKE IT!! It's my personal opinion and the last I heard everyone has one and they are ALL valid as long as it's their personal desire. Couple that with the fact that I did nothing wrong while executing my "opinion" where I was able to obtain it, use it, and sell it ALL legally until ignoramuses who only want to make a name for themselves came along and now want to just wipe the slate clean and make my given "legal" right to my opinion worthless... ANYONE who disagrees with this is just DEAD WRONG! If your gonna laugh at anything, watch a cartoon or something where at least then it may be warranted....
They new law is going to hurt knife makers and scrim handers too.
Mammoth ivory will be illegal too .
Mammoth ivory will be illegal too .
I am sick of hearing about the demise of the elephant and how banning ivory will prevent this. I will make a nice wager with the doofus who thinks elephants will be gone by 2020.
Elephants, in their natural habitat, compete with the people living there for crops and trees. You want to save the elephant, consider raising money to purchase land that is conducive to elephant populations.
I have said this before but you morons fail to see this as a similar situation as the survival of the American bison. How did the bison survive? Private individuals protected the bison on property that they owned. Later, the Government allowed the herds to grow in National parks. They have done so well that about 1000 will be harvested in Yellowstone park over this winter.
So, up off your lazy butts and start raising money to save the elephants. Stop whining about those who still enjoy ivory in their cue or any other crafted product. I personally don't care if you like ivory or not but I am sure sick of you telling me what I should or should not enjoy. It is currently legal and I like the look of it in my cues.
Elephants, in their natural habitat, compete with the people living there for crops and trees. You want to save the elephant, consider raising money to purchase land that is conducive to elephant populations.
I have said this before but you morons fail to see this as a similar situation as the survival of the American bison. How did the bison survive? Private individuals protected the bison on property that they owned. Later, the Government allowed the herds to grow in National parks. They have done so well that about 1000 will be harvested in Yellowstone park over this winter.
So, up off your lazy butts and start raising money to save the elephants. Stop whining about those who still enjoy ivory in their cue or any other crafted product. I personally don't care if you like ivory or not but I am sure sick of you telling me what I should or should not enjoy. It is currently legal and I like the look of it in my cues.
Great post.....I will never understand this progressive, johnny-do-gooder minded logic of some.
rick the stick
Registered
I agree that cue makers like to jack prices up with ivory. juma etc and even some of the plastic meucci uses gives the same overall effect. with that said, the cue makers will find another material that is over-priced quickly enough. soon a lot of the woods they use are going to be the same way
wasn't it proven that the dentist wasn't at fault? and it was the local guides that caused the mess by baiting him illegally........i'm not down with poaching....shit i'm not down for sport hunting period...i hunt for food. but i see no issue with using pre ban ivory. Hell i have piano keys that are extremely old, and ivory cueballs, mammoth ivory that man probably didn't kill to begin with.......and yes we are all consumers. Trust me your not green, you most likely buy your food from walmart or another chain grocer and your no less vial than that poacher in the long run.....maybe more so if you shop and buy say sliced ham and such because your perpertrating gross tragedy against animals kept in conditions that could be comparable to Auschwitz.
but keep talking that mess as if we all just want elephants to die for some ivory lol
your talking about california....the most bullshit state in america....a place that preaches peace love happiness but will jail you for feeding the homeless....
oh and ivory on a piano key has no similarity to ivory used in mechanically functional areas of a cue (joint/ferrule) its distinct, they have tried for 100 years to replicate its qualitites fully to no avail. Ivory piano keys are not mechanically functional, the piano key could be made out of anything and as long as the weight is the same the piano plays the same....this can not be said for ivory or any material in the joint or ferrule of a cuestick as they all give diff hit/feedback etc.
Mammoth ivory? makes sense banning that too huh....because those cave men was poaching...pffff roflmao
now get off your stump and stop acting like what you say is end all be all because its not. never was and never will be.
the way you reason i wouldn't doubt that your from Kalifornia.....no disrespect to actual human beings who dont have their head up their asses living in lala lefty land and actually happen to live in California...note the spelling.
-Greyghost
You have no clue what the cue market is now .
Cue makers don't jack up the prices. 3 times the cost of material is not jacking it up. If the makers even get that .
People are not willing to pay for jacked-up priced cues .
The cue market now is pretty sad for a lot of makers who are not well-known. The resale value is horrible in most cases .
Most cue makers can't sell their plane janes for $500. 4-pointers with 4 veneers for $1,000. It's a sad business for most . They might as well work at Starbucks.
Only a small group make good money doing it .
Ivory
Everything you have said has already been done..
The only problem is these lands are so vast that they cannot guard all the land at once.
There is and always will be corrupt government officials some where in the system.
Straight up if you are going to poach ivory continuously I think I would be buying some one off. or black mailing some one.. or allot of someone's.
Being real,
Many people just flat ignored the pre ban law.
Some of the people in cue making supplies got caught up in these stings.
The pre ban ivory act was and still is being abused.
Some one was looking to make a career in government used this as a stepping stone to say look at me I am saving the elephants when in reality nothing has changed.
Poachers are like drug dealers and people in Africa are poor and starving.
and their Government is corrupt. The USA cannot save the world.
Right now we cant even save our own @ss.
Does California really need more laws /
My goodness I think they should just print up one piece of paper on what people in California can really legally do.
Because it would save millions in printing fees on what's illegal in California :thumbup:
When the cue makers bought their pre band ivory in California it doesn't give anyone the right to turn around and say these people are now felons just because they are trying to make a legal living.
The state with the most laws is the most corrupt state .............................
What a weird world, you got tons of wet backs sneaking into California every minute.
Now we got people from the middle east sneaking in with the Mexicans and the new law is about IVORY :scratchhead:
What a total cluster _ _ _ _ .........................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL6IWZhLdSM
Everything you have said has already been done..
The only problem is these lands are so vast that they cannot guard all the land at once.
There is and always will be corrupt government officials some where in the system.
Straight up if you are going to poach ivory continuously I think I would be buying some one off. or black mailing some one.. or allot of someone's.
Being real,
Many people just flat ignored the pre ban law.
Some of the people in cue making supplies got caught up in these stings.
The pre ban ivory act was and still is being abused.
Some one was looking to make a career in government used this as a stepping stone to say look at me I am saving the elephants when in reality nothing has changed.
Poachers are like drug dealers and people in Africa are poor and starving.
and their Government is corrupt. The USA cannot save the world.
Right now we cant even save our own @ss.
Does California really need more laws /
My goodness I think they should just print up one piece of paper on what people in California can really legally do.
Because it would save millions in printing fees on what's illegal in California :thumbup:
When the cue makers bought their pre band ivory in California it doesn't give anyone the right to turn around and say these people are now felons just because they are trying to make a legal living.
The state with the most laws is the most corrupt state .............................
What a weird world, you got tons of wet backs sneaking into California every minute.
Now we got people from the middle east sneaking in with the Mexicans and the new law is about IVORY :scratchhead:
What a total cluster _ _ _ _ .........................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL6IWZhLdSM
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