California Cue-Makers - No More Ivory......

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rhinobywilhite said:
I am sick of hearing about the demise of the elephant and how banning ivory will prevent this. I will make a nice wager with the doofus who thinks elephants will be gone by 2020.

Elephants, in their natural habitat, compete with the people living there for crops and trees. You want to save the elephant, consider raising money to purchase land that is conducive to elephant populations.

I have said this before but you morons fail to see this as a similar situation as the survival of the American bison. How did the bison survive? Private individuals protected the bison on property that they owned. Later, the Government allowed the herds to grow in National parks. They have done so well that about 1000 will be harvested in Yellowstone park over this winter.

So, up off your lazy butts and start raising money to save the elephants. Stop whining
about those who still enjoy ivory in their cue or any other crafted product. I personally don't care if you like ivory or not but I am sure sick of you telling me what I should or should not enjoy. It is currently legal and I like the look of it in my cues.
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I like this post.....and I don't even like ivory.

In the 70s and 80s, I bought a couple dozen top end cues....
....and had the ivory ferrules taken off....I don't like the hit.
...and as joint material, it is just too vulnerable.

But I certainly don't like legislation that tells us how to think.....
....these people must think they're running a nursery.
What's next? We all have to become vegans?

pt....hates tofu
 
Today, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
They new law is going to hurt knife makers and scrim handers too.
Mammoth ivory will be illegal too .
Good thing... Mammoths are almost extinct.

JV


Ya gotta love JV's sense of humor.........that's really funny........And a sense of humor definitely comes in handy around these parts nowadays.

Matt B.
 
So many ignorant people. So many who just do not have any idea of reality in general.

To the earlier post about Southwest cues. I'm guessing you've never seen an ivory handle cue from SW? Or a heavily ivory inlaid cue from SW?

And to all who think cuemakers are using poached ivory --- obviously you don't know anything about making cues. Ivory has to be seasoned for years, much like wood does.
Why would any cuemaker buy illegal poached unseasoned ivory when legal seasoned ivory is readily available?

And because you've read a few left slanted internet articles you're now an expert on poaching and when the elephants are going to be extinct?

And to ban mammoth ivory as well? It's a special kind of stupid with some of these laws.
 
Sadly, there is always a small group of people who think they know what is right for YOU. Just follow their advice and law and rainbows will guide you to your pot of gold.
 
Is this ban a direct answer to poaching, no. Will the ban stop poaching, probably not. Could it be possible that due to the dramatic decline of the largest mammal that roams our earth, law makers feel compelled to do anything to help another animal survive the atrocities of man, possibly. Maybe California is putting the squeeze on the California/Asian illegal ivory trade and the only way to fully implement it is through a full ban? Bad apples ruin the bunch folks, we all know that. Considering this country was founded by religious fanatics and drug dealers (nicotine is a drug), is it not expected that the people of this country get anxty when the government tells them what they can and cannot do?

Stop for a moment and think, a fellow mammal, an intelligent and beautiful creature that was around before man, is now on its way out because of man. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of those angered by this are registered Republicans or tea party folks. Generally those political beliefs are also hand in hand with a very strong Judeo-Chrisitian train of thought, which exposes the land and all it animals as ours to do with what we please.

I have worked in an illegal industry for a few years now, some of you may know it as medical marijuana. I don't tote the line of the law, but I also don't hurt people or animals through the proliferation of a medicine. If I had to make a dollar off the back or skin or tooth of an animal, I'd be hard pressed to hold my head up high.
 
greyghost said:
wasn't it proven that the dentist wasn't at fault? and it was the local guides that caused the mess by baiting him illegally........i'm not down with poaching....shit i'm not down for sport hunting period...i hunt for food. but i see no issue with using pre ban ivory. Hell i have piano keys that are extremely old, and ivory cueballs, mammoth ivory that man probably didn't kill to begin with.......and yes we are all consumers. Trust me your not green, you most likely buy your food from walmart or another chain grocer and your no less vial than that poacher in the long run.....maybe more so if you shop and buy say sliced ham and such because your perpertrating gross tragedy against animals kept in conditions that could be comparable to Auschwitz.

but keep talking that mess as if we all just want elephants to die for some ivory lol

your talking about california....the most bullshit state in america....a place that preaches peace love happiness but will jail you for feeding the homeless....

oh and ivory on a piano key has no similarity to ivory used in mechanically functional areas of a cue (joint/ferrule) its distinct, they have tried for 100 years to replicate its qualitites fully to no avail. Ivory piano keys are not mechanically functional, the piano key could be made out of anything and as long as the weight is the same the piano plays the same....this can not be said for ivory or any material in the joint or ferrule of a cuestick as they all give diff hit/feedback etc.

Mammoth ivory? makes sense banning that too huh....because those cave men was poaching...pffff roflmao

now get off your stump and stop acting like what you say is end all be all because its not. never was and never will be.

the way you reason i wouldn't doubt that your from Kalifornia.....no disrespect to actual human beings who dont have their head up their asses living in lala lefty land and actually happen to live in California...note the spelling.

-Greyghost
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I live in Ontario, Canada.

Americans tend to confuse their "right to freedom" with "the right to excess". The world is not yours to pillage and rape. Regarding keys on a piano, or a joint/ferrule combination on a pool cue, your point is complete and utter BULLSHIT. The "feel" of ivory may be second to none for you. But structurally, ivory isn't as strong as the phenolics that are available today. Boo hoo....your cue won't "feel as nice", or "be as pretty" as it used to be. Name me a top 10 player in the world that is batting with an ivory ferrule? Answer - NONE. The ivory in a cue is purely for aesthetic purposes only.

Seems like the only arguments FOR the use of ivory are coming from (A) cuemakers or cue sellers that have a financial tie to the use of ivory, or (B) those that drape themselves in the stars and stripes, and say "to hell with anyone that says I can't use what I want to use".

I could care less whether ivory can get shipped or not shipped. I've never supported the ivory trade, because I don't see the need for something that, even in the remotest incidences, could account for the wrongful death of a living thing. You can argue all you want about "pre ban" and "legally harvested". If one tusk in 1000 was as a result of poaching, your need for ivory has condoned murder. Plain and simple.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Different story with USPS.
They've opened my packages coming in and going out of the country.
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That would be customs agents, not the actual USPS.
Any time a package enters a foreign country, it is subject to be opened by customs. You can tell if it's been opened, it will have either green or orange tape to reseal it.
 
Oh, and before the rednecks point out me supporting the killing of innocent animals for food, that's been around since Biblical times. They reference killing animals to eat. Modern day farming and livestock practices differ greatly from killing animals to make lovely handbags, shoes, cue wraps, or pretty white ferrules.

Yes, I drive a car that runs on fuel. The windpowered electric jet pack hasn't been invented yet, but I'd be in line when it does. Yes, I eat meat. Yes, I own a leather belt. And a leather jacket. And leather shoes. And leather cue tips. And I do realize that most of you will pull the argument out that this somehow makes me a hypocrite. It doesn't. I'm all for sustainable resources. Give back to mother Earth, and she will provide for you. Elephants are on the endangered species list. If you can find a species, such as the northern albino elk, that we can use for meat, leather, AND their horns make an exceptional cuemaking material, AND we can sustain their population on Earth, please....feel free to use their horns.
 
I have a bucket of old ivory balls that I have been collecting for years. I guess I'll just throw them away. Now that we have started the ban on ivory, maybe we need to morph into not using any wood that might be endangered someday. Just ask Gibson Guitar Co. about that. They almost lost their company a few years back for importing wood from regions where the economy is dependent on exporting their wood but we in the USA feel they should not be deforesting their trees for our needs.
 
Baby Huey said:
I have a bucket of old ivory balls that I have been collecting for years. I guess I'll just throw them away. Now that we have started the ban on ivory, maybe we need to morph into not using any wood that might be endangered someday. Just ask Gibson Guitar Co. about that. They almost lost their company a few years back for importing wood from regions where the economy is dependent on exporting their wood but we in the USA feel they should not be deforesting their trees for our needs.
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And Gibson was harrassed b/c they didn't support liberal causes.
 
Baby Huey said:
I have a bucket of old ivory balls that I have been collecting for years. I guess I'll just throw them away. Now that we have started the ban on ivory, maybe we need to morph into not using any wood that might be endangered someday. Just ask Gibson Guitar Co. about that. They almost lost their company a few years back for importing wood from regions where the economy is dependent on exporting their wood but we in the USA feel they should not be deforesting their trees for our needs.
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Brazilian Rosewood. Already been done.
 
JoeyInCali said:
It wasn't. It was Indian Rosewood. The Indians wanted to make Gibson's fret boards. Gibson, said no. Ship them to us raw.
Then they were harassed for their decades old gaboon ebony.
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Gibson bought Madagascar rosewood illegally harvested.

Martin is the one who wanted BRW shipped in the log form but the Brazilian government could make more if they cut it, but they didn't have the same QC as Martin. 1968 was the last year for production BRW before the shift to EIR

Bob Taylor bought an ebony harvesting company in order to use all ebony, not just the jet black which was roughly one in twenty tress.
 
PDX said:
Gibson bought Madagascar rosewood illegally harvested.

Martin is the one who wanted BRW shipped in the log form but the Brazilian government could make more if they cut it, but they didn't have the same QC as Martin. 1968 was the last year for production BRW before the shift to EIR

Bob Taylor bought an ebony harvesting company in order to use all ebony, not just the jet black which was roughly one in twenty tress.
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http://www.npr.org/sections/thereco...n-guitar-was-raided-by-the-justice-department
http://www.realclearmarkets.com/art...he_gibson_guitar_raids_make_sense_100343.html
Two separate issues actually.
"In another raid, the feds found materials imported from India, claiming they too moved across the globe in violation of Indian law. Gibson's response was that the feds had simply misinterpreted Indian law." The Indian Law is bullkaka. Gibson wants their guitars 100% American made ( we're not gonna count cutting logs and slabs as labor ).

Grossly underreported at the time was the fact that Gibson's chief executive, Henry Juszkiewicz, contributed to Republican politicians. Recent donations have included $2,000 to Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., and $1,500 to Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn.

By contrast, Chris Martin IV, the Martin & Co. CEO, is a long-time Democratic supporter, with $35,400 in contributions to Democratic candidates and the Democratic National Committee over the past couple of election cycles.
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It was a political motivated raid .
The Gibson Guitar raid, the IRS intimidation of Tea Party groups and the fraudulently obtained warrant naming Fox News reporter James Rosen as an "aider, abettor, co-conspirator" in stealing government secrets are but a few examples of the abuse of power by the Obama administration to intimidate those on its enemies list.
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JoeyInCali said:
It wasn't. It was Indian Rosewood. The Indians wanted to make Gibson's fret boards. Gibson, said no. Ship them to us raw.
Then they were harassed for their decades old gaboon ebony.
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I wasn't referring to Gibson. I was referring to a wood that has already been placed in the exact same category as ivory. It is a CITES Appendix 1 species - cannot be bought, traded or sold without pre-ban paperwork. Happened last year. Did anyone cry about that, on here?
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
I wasn't referring to Gibson. I was referring to a wood that has already been placed in the exact same category as ivory. It is a CITES Appendix 1 species - cannot be bought, traded or sold without pre-ban paperwork. Happened last year. Did anyone cry about that, on here?
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Ok, my bad. I don't know if anyone cried about it .
There are thousands of re-claimed BRW slabs. Those are the ones cue makers and guitar makers want . The old BRW's ( I was told by an authority on this subject ) sound better because it's sap have crystallize. That's why old BRW guitars are heavily sought ( besides it's rarity ). Brazil has outlawed cutting of BRW trees.
Pernambuco is even rarer. Most of the trees were cut eons ago so they could be created as red dust . Kinda odd that ivory now is getting made into powder too. Lots of it .
Sting won't eat hamburger or steak b/c the cows are eating the planets away as he would put it . Deforestation in Brazil have been largely caused by cattle raising . In Indonesia, palm oil is the main culprit .
In the US, probably due to paper . That could be ended if hemp was legalized I think.
 
Hush, Joey....don't let him know that your fellow makers are thinking in an environmentally conscious way. It might throw a monkey wrench into his talking points about "American excess". What a buffoon. Love it when some arrogant dickhead in another country tells me how I should think and feel.
 
cueaddicts said:
Hush, Joey....don't let him know that your fellow makers are thinking in an environmentally conscious way. It might throw a monkey wrench into his talking points about "American excess". What a buffoon. Love it when some arrogant dickhead in another country tells me how I should think and feel.
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Sorry - you're the model for "arrogant dickhead". The ivory supporters seem to be the only group that have resorted to namecalling in the thread. Typical.
 
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