VNEA RULES cueball leaves table ,hits
- Thread starter alphadog
- Start date
A ball is considered driven off the table if it comes to rest other than on the playing surface but is not pocketed. A ball is also considered driven off the table if it would have been driven off the table except for striking an object such as a light fixture, piece of chalk or a player which causes it to return to the table.
A ball that contacts the top of the rail is not considered to have been driven off the table if it returns to the playing surface or enters a pocket.
Kim
A ball that contacts the top of the rail is not considered to have been driven off the table if it returns to the playing surface or enters a pocket.
Kim
Is that the rule and if so where is it?
That's the rule...no foul. It's where the CB ends up that matters.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I googled The rules did not see a answer. Thanks hope I can help you out sometime.
IF YOU DONT KNOW..........
Yes to this: Although it's not outlined in the VNEA rules that I could see, they are mentioned in the WPA rules, which I would assume would be the fall back if a rule is not listed in a league rule:
"8.5 Driven off the Table
A ball is considered driven off the table if it comes to rest other than on the playing surface but is not pocketed. A ball is also considered driven off the table if it would have been driven off the table except for striking an object such as a light fixture, piece of chalk or a player which causes it to return to the table.
A ball that contacts the top of the rail is not considered to have been driven off the table if it returns to the playing surface or enters a pocket."
Since the coin holder was glued to the top of the rail, I would assume that is is considered a part of the rail and not anything else like chalk, loose coins, etc. I would say no foul.
You can find the rule here: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=123&pagetype=rules#8.5
Dave
Sorry to read your response that you can't be bothered to read further, after I tried to help by providing the links to the answer.
11. BALLS JUMPED OFF THE TABLE. Balls coming to rest other than on the bed of the table after a stroke (on the cushion top, rail surface, floor, etc.) are considered jumped balls. Balls may bounce on the cushion tops and rails of the table in play without being jumped balls if they return to the bed of the table under their own power and without touching anything not a part of the table. The table shall consist of the permanent part of the table proper. (Balls that strike or touch anything not a part of the table, such as the light fixture, call pocket disc, chalk on the rails and chalk on the wood cushion tops, shall be considered jumped balls even though they might return to the bed of the table after contacting items which are not parts of the table proper.)
http://www.playmor.com/poolleague/rules/vnearules.aspx
11. BALLS JUMPED OFF THE TABLE. Balls coming to rest other than on the bed of the table after a stroke (on the cushion top, rail surface, floor, etc.) are considered jumped balls. Balls may bounce on the cushion tops and rails of the table in play without being jumped balls if they return to the bed of the table under their own power and without touching anything not a part of the table. The table shall consist of the permanent part of the table proper. (Balls that strike or touch anything not a part of the table, such as the light fixture, call pocket disc, chalk on the rails and chalk on the wood cushion tops, shall be considered jumped balls even though they might return to the bed of the table after contacting items which are not parts of the table proper.)
http://www.playmor.com/poolleague/rules/vnearules.aspx
Trust me I googled It before starting this thread. Rule 8.5 doesnt make it clear. I dont where you found this other rule. I will research it further. Have a nice day.
Foul.
They do not define "table proper" but I don't think anyone would argue with it being limited to the manufactured table.
If we agree on that definition then it would include the rails and the material that makes up the pockets (plastic and metal on the corners). With that the coin holder is not part of the "table proper". It is an optional accessory purchased separately and attached to the table at the owners will so it should not be treated any differently than chalk in this case just because it is permanent.
They do not define "table proper" but I don't think anyone would argue with it being limited to the manufactured table.
If we agree on that definition then it would include the rails and the material that makes up the pockets (plastic and metal on the corners). With that the coin holder is not part of the "table proper". It is an optional accessory purchased separately and attached to the table at the owners will so it should not be treated any differently than chalk in this case just because it is permanent.
Sounds all reasonable. The OP asked about the coin rack, something that is part of that particular bar table.
Freddie <~~~ wouldn't want to call it
Devil's Advocate:
Ball runs on the rail and returns to the bed after it hits the scoring wheels, which are imbedded in the rail but are slightly proud. Foul? Not a foul?
Ball runs on the rail and hits the ashtray that's beautifully designed in a GCI corner pocket. The piece where you flick the ashes (a wire form... beautiful piece of pool legacy) deflects the Cueball back on the bed. Foul? No fouls?
Freddie <~~~ after seeing Corey's jump shot spin back off the rail, anything can happen
By my definition above if it was manufactured as part of the table, then it is "table proper". Added to the table as an accessory by a owner of the table, then it is not "table proper".
We can split hairs all you want, but as I said you have to define what is meant by "table proper".
I'm open. Lets change table proper to the manufactured table and anything permanently affixed to the upper railing. Then lets define "permanent" as anything that can't be flicked off of it with the middle finger of an adult male weighing at least 125lbs.
Shall we setup a poll for this?
Under the VNEA rule as quoted, "The table shall consist of the permanent part of the table proper", I think the original example and all of your examples are not fouls. I don't even think it's questionable under that rule.
Under the WPA rules, it is not clear. My own view is that it should not be a foul in any of these cases, as each of the examples set out in the WPA rule refer to things that are not permanently affixed to the table, but agree that the rule is not clearly stated.
Gideon