Same Old Same Old

mohrt said:
I want to add, yes I know curtains are not used in pool games. They are only to demonstrate that the system (CTE) does not use contact points. With a curtain, contact points are much more difficult without the pocket in view. Not a trick, just using our perception coupled with centers and edges to proficiently pocket balls. If you think THAT is a trick, well heck that's an awesome trick, one I will use to pocket balls!
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mohrt I'm beginning to wonder if what Lou and 8 pack and I and others mean by "trick" is not what you think it means. Nobody is saying that Stan is doing something underhanded or sleight of hand while banking shots with a curtain. We're just saying that is a trick in the sense that performing those shots is a developed skill. I have a video from another forum member where he shoots about 15 balls under a curtain to the corner pocket. They aren't table length shots, but he does them at rapid fire speed. No aiming system, just experience.

I don't think the presence of a curtain changes much for bank shots. Those kinds of shots are done mostly by feel, knowing where the pocket is. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the curtain makes the shot any more difficult.

If any of the CTE users in this forum that are NOT professional level players can shoot 10 banks with the curtain the way Stan does then that would impress me more than watching Stan do it.

I'm reminded of a video that Willie Mosconi did where he shows some fundamentals. He goes on to demonstrate how to pocket bank shots. He gives a hard to understand brief lesson on how to make bank shots and then proceeds to fire in banks like nothing. He wasn't able to bank those shots because he did it the way he described it. He was able to do it because he's Willie Mosconi and he just knew what looked right. His method would only get you close to the pocket. Experience makes the shot go in.

The same thing struck me about Stan's video. Why is he using english on some shots and not on others? Stan gave an answer but I have no idea what he was trying to say. If you use CTE to get you close on the bank shot and then use your experience to make the ball go in then CTE is no different in that respect from any other aiming method.

Can you perform Stan's bank shot video? If not, then is it because Stan is more capable of seeing the "simple," "objective" visuals than you are? I'm not being a wisea**. I really would like to know.
 
I have not attempted the same video, I might give it a try when I get a curtain figured out. That said, I think we all know banks require knowledge of speed and spin, not just aiming. Especially thinner cuts. I doubt I'm as proficient, but The point would be using the CTE system to align them.
 
mohrt said:
I have not attempted the same video, I might give it a try when I get a curtain figured out. That said, I think we all know banks require knowledge of speed and spin, not just aiming. Especially thinner cuts. I doubt I'm as proficient, but The point would be using the CTE system to align them.
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Can you do it without a curtain? Re the bold part, I thought the objective visuals would cause the ball to go to a pocket in 0, 1, 2 or thee rails. But now you are saying that is not the case and you need to judge speed and spin in order for CTE to send the ball to a pocket?
 
lfigueroa said:
What would be the purpose?! We don't shot pool shots with a frippin' curtain across the table, just like we don't shoot pool shots with bottles, or coin wrappers, or triangles, cue sticks, mechanical bridges, or hot babes on the table. It means/proves squadouche.

Lou Figueroa
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Well, the whole point of the curtain was to show that each unique CTE alignment leads to a pocket on the table. I'm not saying that users can or can't do this without using feel, but I can think of a real good way to modify the curtain setup to take the possibility of feel out of it. It would necessitate adding angled curtains along the side rails so that the shooter can't see them as he lines up for the shot. All he could do would be to align to the CTE and ETA, B, or C lines, make the appropriate pivot, and then just shoot.

Anybody game for trying that one?
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
Well, the whole point of the curtain was to show that each unique CTE alignment leads to a pocket on the table. I'm not saying that users can or can't do this without using feel, but I can think of a real good way to modify the curtain setup to take the possibility of feel out of it. It would necessitate adding angled curtains along the side rails so that the shooter can't see them as he lines up for the shot. All he could do would be to align to the CTE and ETA, B, or C lines, make the appropriate pivot, and then just shoot.

Anybody game for trying that one?
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It wouldn't work. You need the rails to get the proper perspective to get the visuals. Which is what so many keep missing on the 5 shots lined up equal distant from the side rail with the same visuals.
 
8pack said:
I agree Neil but Stans states other wise.

Skip to around 2:00 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY0tp_UnS_g
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I fully understand you thinking that. Stan stated that he doesn't use the rails or diamonds as a reference when banking. However, while it surely can be taken as you did, I believe he meant a little something different. That being, that he doesn't need the diamonds to determine where to hit the rail, and doesn't need the cb position in reference to the rail to determine the angle to shoot down.

So, while Stan did say "that", I don't believe he had the same meaning to it as you do. He said it, but yet he didn't say it. (one of the few times that saying actually makes sense) Hopefully you understood the point I am trying to make.
 
Rails viewability is NOT an absolute requirement. All that is need is a fair amount of perspective of where the right angles are......

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
Rails viewability is NOT an absolute requirement. All that is need is a fair amount of perspective of where the right angles are......

Stan Shuffett
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So just being around the corner of a pool table gives you the correct perspective of the rest of the table? Do you need to see both corners?
 
8pack said:
So just being around the corner of a pool table gives you the correct perspective of the rest of the table? Do you need to see both corners?
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I do not need two corners for arriving at shot solutions.......but that is a tall visual order to be stowed away deep in one corner......for shooting at the other 5 pockets under any circumstance.

The smart player works all regions of a 2x1, though, so as to gain familiarity with any kind of shot that can arise. CTE is structured for that kind of work...

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
I do not need two corners for arriving at shot solutions.......but that is a tall visual order to be stowed away deep in one corner......for shooting at the other 5 pockets under any circumstance.

The smart player works all regions of a 2x1, though, so as to gain familiarity with any kind of shot that can arise. CTE is structured for that kind of work...

Stan Shuffett
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So what is the direction of the smart players? Are they trying to figure out where he or she thinks the pockets are(first) , and then find the correct line up that given pocket.

If you walked into a unfamiliar room that had a table with just a corner pocket showing and the rest covered by a curtain, do you think not knowing which side had the short rail would mess things up for you?
 
8pack said:
So what is the direction of the smart players? Are they trying to figure out where he or she thinks the pockets are(first) , and then find the correct line up that given pocket.

If you walked into a unfamiliar room that had a table with just a corner pocket showing and the rest covered by a curtain, do you think not knowing which side had the short rail would mess things up for you?
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It is a complete of waste of time to try and give you an answer.

Stan Shuffett
 
8pack said:
Is this just an excuse not to answer my questions?
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You can call it what you want. The regret that I have in communicating with you is that I EVER responded to you at any point. WHY? Because no matter what I could ever say would ever matter in any kind of way with you. I will never respond to you ever again under any circumstance.....not worth it...a waste time......I do not need your foolishness!

Stan Shuffett
 
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stan shuffett said:
You can call it what you want. The regret that I have in communicating with you is that I EVER responded to you at any point. WHY? Because no matter what I could ever say would ever matter in any kind of way with you. I will never respond to you ever again under any circumstance.....not worth it...a waste time......I do not need your foolishness!

Stan Shuffett
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Just asked a couple questions....why you so uptight?
 
stan shuffett said:
You can call it what you want. The regret that I have in communicating with you is that I EVER responded to you at any point. WHY? Because no matter what I could ever say would ever matter in any kind of way with you. I will never respond to you ever again under any circumstance.....not worth it...a waste time......I do not need your foolishness!

Stan Shuffett
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Ah, the magical aiming system answers.

No references needed, just shoot and the ball goes center pocket wherever you want. Doesn't matter if they're both on the rail and you're shooting at the side - location means nothing. To say otherwise is heresy and requires a lynch mob.

Foolishness indeed.
 
Dan White said:
Can you do it without a curtain? Re the bold part, I thought the objective visuals would cause the ball to go to a pocket in 0, 1, 2 or thee rails. But now you are saying that is not the case and you need to judge speed and spin in order for CTE to send the ball to a pocket?
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Dan, we are venturing away from the topic of "aiming" and into "banking". I think we can all agree that an aiming system, such as CTE, gives you the geometric line to a pocket. No one ever said it is a magic bullet, and that goes for banks especially. All components of a shot beyond the shot line are on the shooter. If you read the Beard's bank book you would probably know more about banks than most any pool player. That said, a large number of banks will go with a center ball hit, especially a pocket speed shot which is common in games like bank pool and one pocket. Here are a few things that affect a bank shot:

* how much cut is put on the ball. cut will add a bit of "twist" or "gearing" on the shot
* whether the OB is sliding or rolling into the first rail
* the speed the ball is shot. faster speed narrows the rebound.
* the steepness of angle the OB hits the first rail. steep angle makes the OB want to slide with a soft shot

From my own personal experience, I try to stay as close to CCB as I can. On a cross-over bank CCB works a vast majority of the time. A cut angle bank has that twist affect and a touch of english helps. A three rail bank I usually add a touch of running english. A hard speed bank shortens the shot, so usually some compensation is required. When I say add spin, we are typically talking a 1/16" to 1/8" or thereabouts. If you start loading up the CB with a full tip of spin or more, all bets are off, the shot gets very "iffy".

Stan is a very good bank pool player. He grew up in Kentucky after all. Stan can give you the gritty details about a given bank shot if you'd like, and what "helps" it into the pocket. Very often a CCB hit will work, it will go into the pocket or park you very near it, which is advantageous for one pocket and banks. Banks by nature, are "iffy". You don't see pros using them in straight pool for a reason.
 
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Banks said:
Ah, the magical aiming system answers.

No references needed, just shoot and the ball goes center pocket wherever you want. Doesn't matter if they're both on the rail and you're shooting at the side - location means nothing. To say otherwise is heresy and requires a lynch mob.

Foolishness indeed.
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I guess you gotta watch what you say to these fellows, looks like their pretty sensitive .
 
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