how many US players have the ability / skill to go pro but can't because of work?

J

justinb386

Banned
I am curious how many players out there (that had the skill and the dedication to the game) would quit their full time job and risk their livelihood to go out on the road and try to survive by just playing pool?

Before you answer, I have a 2nd part to this question.

How much would the average tournament need to add to the pot (like $100,000 added for example) in order for players (that actually have the potential to become elite players) to quit their day jobs and take on that risk of playing full time?

Please keep in mind that this is purely a fantasy question.

I am mainly just curious how many players out there could give the top 5 players in the us a run for their money, if pool was actually worth their time in order to dedicate all of their time to practice.

I wonder how many really great players have gave up the game because there was more money to make doing something else.

Thanks
 
justinb386 said:
I am curious how many players out there (that had the skill and the dedication to the game) would quit their full time job and risk their livelihood to go out on the road and try to survive by just playing pool?

Before you answer, I have a 2nd part to this question.

How much would the average tournament need to add to the pot (like $100,000 added for example) in order for players (that actually have the potential to become elite players) to quit their day jobs and take on that risk of playing full time?

Please keep in mind that this is purely a fantasy question.

I am mainly just curious how many players out there could give the top 5 players in the us a run for their money, if pool was actually worth their time in order to dedicate all of their time to practice.

I wonder how many really great players have gave up the game because there was more money to make doing something else.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Thousands

1
 
I don't think there are any local players that could play on the national level that are "unknown at the national level". The only difference your scenario would make is the guys now that are known but rarely leave their home town may play in every event.
 
Somebody once said that there's always room at the top if you are good enough. There's a hundred really strong players that don't travel to play. When cashing 3rd breaks even on expenses how can you justify playing? I'd say that there aren't any worldbeater level players in the US not playing. T
There's nowhere for them to hide.
 
justinb386 said:
I am curious how many players out there (that had the skill and the dedication to the game) would quit their ... job ... to survive by just playing pool?
How much would the average tournament need to add to the pot (like $100,000 added for example) in order for players ... to quit their day jobs and take on that risk of playing full time? ...
Click to expand...

Interesting question, justinb.
(I whittled down your post to the essential elements for brevity's sake)

Personally, I think the only question that needs to be asked is the SECOND one.
My answer itself will explain why...

I feel the amount of money needed would be ten times as much.
So for example, if first place is currently $25,000U.S. for a world championship,
it would have to be $250,000U.S. and then all the other places would follow proportionately.

How did I come up with that number?

Here are the current #1 and #20 money leaders in both professional pool and golf.

Pool
01=$148,000
Golf
01=$2,000,000

Pool
20=$48,000
Golf
20=$422,000

I noticed that the "payday" differences between the same rankings in golf and pool
is anywhere between from 8 to 13 times.
Let's take the (approximate) middle of that range (to be reasonable) and say 10 times.

Do you all remember a guy by the name of Kevin Trudeau?
His tourneys involved a grand prize of around $250,000 for first place.
Did you all notice that a lot of guys were "coming out" to play in the prelim tourneys?

Where I was living at the time (Los Angeles), I saw a lot of new faces who could play jam up.
You would have to think that a lot of those players had jobs and were contemplating
getting into pool on account of the new pool "revolution" that was seemingly taking place at the time.

I don't think very many will "push" themselves into quitting a job and playing pool full time.
On the contrary, it's the "pull" that is necessary (the money) to get a player to do such a thing.
Again, we have a precedence: the International Pool Tour (IPT).

It could happen again someday...
 
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Why would anyone with any type of responsibilities, want to quit a decent career working, to play pool?
LOL
That's just retarded.

There are probably a few pool players around Open speed, who could probably have decent showings at venues if they dropped everything and just played pool every damn day. Who knows.
They would most likely see the light after being broke and becoming professional leeches/mooches, and eyeing every single one of their friends as a potential score, whether if be $$$, food, housing, or a ride.
Most smart people who had any talent wise up after a while.
Stupid people who cling to the pipe dream, that's a different story.
 
cueenvy said:
Somebody once said that there's always room at the top if you are good enough. There's a hundred really strong players that don't travel to play. When cashing 3rd breaks even on expenses how can you justify playing? I'd say that there aren't any worldbeater level players in the US not playing. T
There's nowhere for them to hide.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand that. I just wonder how many players would quit their jobs, and give playing pool full time a shot, if pool payed the type of money that Golf pays for example. Imagine if their was a qualifier to get on a National (or world wide) pro tour, and if you won that qualifier, you would get a sponsor, that would pay for all of your expenses, and fly you around to all sorts of big tournaments, where half the finishing field shared a million dollar prize pot (for example), how many US players would be entering these qualifiers? How many Shane Van Boening level players could there be after 10 years of pool getting big like this? Sorry if I am going off topic. Just wonder how big pool could get, if the big billion dollar companies got involved with the sport of pool. In Golf, even the last place finishers make a good living, right? So, what is pool was the same way? How many elite pool players would we have in the US? It is sad about all of the great players that quit the game, because there was just not much money to make at it (actually no money, if you do not have a good backer, and if you are not at least top 10, but I do not know).
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Why would anyone with any type of responsibilities, want to quit a decent career working, to play pool?
LOL
That's just retarded.

There are probably a few pool players around Open speed, who could probably have decent showings at venues if they dropped everything and just played pool every damn day. Who knows.
They would most likely see the light after being broke and becoming professional leeches/mooches, and eyeing every single one of their friends as a potential score, whether if be $$$, food, housing, or a ride.
Most smart people who had any talent wise up after a while.
Stupid people who cling to the pipe dream, that's a different story.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand. I was just thinking "in the fantasy" of if pool had the same national respect as Golf for example. If people were turning on their tv's everyday to watch the Pool channel (if there was one), and if pool had all of the same billion dollar sponsorships as Golf does, and if it was as respected as Golf. Sorry, I know this is silly, lol. If you remember, Tiger Woods did give up college (Ivy League I think) and a great future career to play Golf full time. I just wonder how many great pro level (elite level) players would be out there if things were different for pool (if pool was nationally known by the average person). Like if Shane Van Boenings name was known to the average person that you walked by on the street. Imagine how big pool would be if that were true.
 
Top 4 to make expenses

Only a handful of today's players can make enough to call it a decent living. Before the cell phone and Internet, hundreds could. Don't encourage any youngsters into a life of pool.
 
justinb386 said:
Yeah, I understand. I was just thinking "in the fantasy" of if pool had the same national respect as Golf for example. If people were turning on their tv's everyday to watch the Pool channel (if there was one), and if pool had all of the same billion dollar sponsorships as Golf does, and if it was as respected as Golf. Sorry, I know this is silly, lol. If you remember, Tiger Woods did give up college (Ivy League I think) and a great future career to play Golf full time. I just wonder how many great pro level (elite level) players would be out there if things were different for pool (if pool was nationally known by the average person). Like if Shane Van Boenings name was known to the average person that you walked by on the street. Imagine how big pool would be if that were true.
Click to expand...

If that were the question, then I think the Philippines holds your answer. The USA produces one world class superstar player every 10 years or so. Shane, Archer, Earl, Buddy, etc. The Philippines produce that level of player ever 3 or 4 years, where pool there is a national sport.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Why would anyone with any type of responsibilities, want to quit a decent career working, to play pool?
LOL
That's just retarded.

There are probably a few pool players around Open speed, who could probably have decent showings at venues if they dropped everything and just played pool every damn day. Who knows.
They would most likely see the light after being broke and becoming professional leeches/mooches, and eyeing every single one of their friends as a potential score, whether if be $$$, food, housing, or a ride.
Most smart people who had any talent wise up after a while.
Stupid people who cling to the pipe dream, that's a different story.
Click to expand...

After reading this, it gave me the motivation I needed to turn pro!!! You sir, should consider a job in the motivational speaker department. I have been this inspired since...
 

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Every league player in the world thinks they could if they just quit their jobs and played 8 hours a day..... So you will hear THOUSANDS!!!

We have 100s of shortstops that do everything in their power to not work and play pool to survive and maybe 10% of those could go pro so say 40-50 could make journeyman and maybe 1% could be world class...

My guess is 3-4 world class possible at most and more than likely <1 would be accurate......

There is a huge set of skills required and not all are just learned or trained... It would be similar to thinking you could be Beethoven or Mozart just because you own a piano and Mrs. Sparks told your parents you had talent and they just needed to pay for more lessons......

We all have ceilings... Some are in place because of circumstances and choice but there are hard ceilings that are in place regardless of effort or desire.....
 
justinb386 said:
Yeah, I understand. I was just thinking "in the fantasy" of if pool had the same national respect as Golf for example. If people were turning on their tv's everyday to watch the Pool channel (if there was one), and if pool had all of the same billion dollar sponsorships as Golf does, and if it was as respected as Golf. Sorry, I know this is silly, lol. If you remember, Tiger Woods did give up college (Ivy League I think) and a great future career to play Golf full time. I just wonder how many great pro level (elite level) players would be out there if things were different for pool (if pool was nationally known by the average person). Like if Shane Van Boenings name was known to the average person that you walked by on the street. Imagine how big pool would be if that were true.
Click to expand...

Top 100 golfer makes what? 100 or 200K?
If that money were in pool, you would have at least 100 people quitting everything and just travelling and playing.

If it was money like the money that's in tennis, you'd have a boatload of people quitting their job tomorrow.

If the crappiest player on the tour makes over 100k just for showing up, you'd have lots of part time Pro, Open, and A players showing up to try and get a bigger slice of the pie for themselves.
 
The Renfro said:
Every league player in the world thinks they could if they just quit their jobs and played 8 hours a day..... So you will hear THOUSANDS!!!

We have 100s of shortstops that do everything in their power to not work and play pool to survive and maybe 10% of those could go pro so say 40-50 could make journeyman and maybe 1% could be world class...

My guess is 3-4 world class possible at most and more than likely <1 would be accurate......

There is a huge set of skills required and not all are just learned or trained... It would be similar to thinking you could be Beethoven or Mozart just because you own a piano and Mrs. Sparks told your parents you had talent and they just needed to pay for more lessons......

We all have ceilings... Some are in place because of circumstances and choice but there are hard ceilings that are in place regardless of effort or desire.....
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. So, even if pool were 100 times bigger then it is right now, it would not make much of a difference? What is pool did not have the bad image that a lot of parents might think it has? Not much chance of many more Skyler Woodwards and Justin Bergmans if things were much bigger for pool? Sorry, I am probably going way off topic. Maybe if pool had more respect (and was much more known and respected) among the general public of people, then there would be many more great players in the US. Just a thought.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I don't think there are any local players that could play on the national level that are "unknown at the national level".
Click to expand...

Going to have to disagree. Calgary had a few players that could have played world class (what is world class today) if the game was developed and had the money like golf. They got phenomenal, won lots on the local scene, went down to Vegas nationals and won some open, masters, and grand masters events playing a fairly casual part time schedule and not really ever committing themselves 100% to a life of pool, then they got real jobs and quit playing pool much at all.

There is one guy no one here would know at all. Back in the day in Calgary we had a Thursday open 9-bal tournament at a place called the Black Wolf. Well on one Thursday the day before the finals of the Dufferin Tour in Calgary, which had a prize of about 10 grand that Thursday tournament drew in every out of town pro who came to play the tour final. The people who were there included

Edwin Montal
Stan Tourangeneau
Dave Martin
Glen Atwell
Many of the top players from the east coast and west coast of Canada,
ect...

Basically the event was packed. A local named Vince shot the lights out in the event, got all the way to Glen Atwell in the final, and drilled him for 1st place. This guy was under 20 at the time, broke awesome, shot straight and confident and had a great stroke and could move the white ball very well.

Same guy then did not even bother to play that tour event, quit playing pool shortly after he did that, and decided to play golf instead.

We have had others. Some might know PJ from Calgary. He went to the US Open the year they used crazy tight pockets, got knocked to the B-side fairly early, then went on a tear beating Buddy Hall, Tony Robles, and Tommy Kennedy among others. He had crazy good skills and is pretty fearless under pressure, in a world where pool truly rewarded the top players like a top sport I think he would have been right there at the top.

Tyler Edey went and became an engineer. He was better than Morra when he quit IMO, he was the best player in Canada for a short while after he overtook Edwin. Edwin himself is now getting a little old to compete at a top level but 15 years or so ago he was a threat to beat anyone in the world despite playing very part time local "pro" pool instead of doing the whole tour with the big boys.

When pool does not pay these guys have no impetus and no ability to commit to the game, so they decide to eat instead and go get a job to support their food habit.
 
I think it's called passion... Maybe chasing your dreams...

Stupid people don't always cling to pipe dreams and instead go on to other things... Some of them end up being totally miserable wastes of oxygen in whatever field they chose. We have tons of those here on AZ.. hang on and they will be along or return to the thread =)

They will automatically try and knock dreams down because they picked the safe path and it apparently sucks just as much bilge as the van down by the river while chasing your dreams and they are butt hurt.....

To ANY young player.. Chase your dreams... Look for backup plans as you get older... If you are 30-32 you likely need to have plenty of those and a huge need to cash in on them...
 
justinb386 said:
Thanks for your reply. So, even if pool were 100 times bigger then it is right now, it would not make much of a difference? What is pool did not have the bad image that a lot of parents might think it has? Not much chance of many more Skyler Woodwards and Justin Bergmans if things were much bigger for pool? Sorry, I am probably going way off topic. Maybe if pool had more respect (and was much more known and respected) among the general public of people, then there would be many more great players in the US. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

IF... Interesting... x100.... big big number so lets just say x10 current payouts... at that level alone you could have 400-500 players wanting in every week to 128 player tour events... But if it happens there will be very few new names that are not youngsters like Skylar and the Justins.....
 
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