how many US players have the ability / skill to go pro but can't because of work?

[Celtic]

How did I come up with that number?

Here are the current #1 and #20 money leaders in both professional pool and golf.

Pool
01=$148,000
Golf
01=$2,000,000

Pool
20=$48,000
Golf
20=$422,000

Ehh, the golf season just began, the FedEx cup just ended not long ago.

The pool season is just about to end. So you are comparing the actual prize money for an entire year with prize money from the early warm up events before a single major where the big money is, and comparing that with a full pool year after all of the majors are played in and accounted for.

For the end of 2015 the leading money winner on the PGA your was Jordan Spieth and he won $12,030,465.00 playing in 26 events.

#20 Kevin Kisner won $3,567,938.80 in 30 events.

So the ratio at the top is about 81/1 for golfers over pool

The ratio at 20th is 74/1 for golfers over pool

The real reason golfers actually commit there life to it though?

Patrick Rodgers at 100th on the money list. Played 17 events last year, earned $1,038,291.25 in prize money.

Thongchai Jaidee 200th on the money list, played in only 10 events, won $255,455.20 in prize money.

You do not see a person under $100,000 in winnings until the 252nd player on the list. You can "live" on golf even if you are not the absolute best. If you can even manage to be top 100 and play around that level you are making great money, especially when you factor in sponsors pay for "most" of your travel expenses and lodging.

 

[pt109]

Top 100 golfer makes what? 100 or 200K?
If that money were in pool, you would have at least 100 people quitting everything and just travelling and playing.

If it was money like the money that's in tennis, you'd have a boatload of people quitting their job tomorrow.

If the crappiest player on the tour makes over 100k just for showing up, you'd have lots of part time Pro, Open, and A players showing up to try and get a bigger slice of the pie for themselves.

The PGA is a marvelous organization for the players....
...# 200 golfer made over a quarter million in 2015.
Tennis is not even close...# 92 has made about 2 million...in 15 years.

The IPT was the best chance pool ever had.

 

[The Renfro]

I hope my earlier post wasn't taken as discouragement by anyone. I was only making a joke. I agree that young people should chase their dreams. That's the time to do it. When you hit a certain age though, which probably varies from person to person, one has to step back and ask what you really want out of life and if the path you are on will lead you there.

no sir was not fired over your bow... Just pointing out that there is a window...

I met CJ in 1992-1993 in Nashville at a tournament where I cashed... He ate breakfast with me and my girlfriend and told me what he had made on and off paper and told me point blank to go back to school and get my degree...

I was 25 at the time but I went back and finished... Have I ever wondered? Yes... Could I have tried longer? Yes... Would it have been a good plan to have tried it?... No clue but I wonder alllllll the time..... Odds say no but 25 was a little early... Now I am 46 and it's a little old LOL.....

 

[pt109]

Thousands

1

I agree with this figure...if a pool player could make a good living, there is a lot of talent
out there....many will never experience how well they could play....
....'cause who wants to be a pool room bum.

In the action days of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, a good road player could go broke anywhere
in the country if a local was having a good day.

 

[The Renfro]

I agree with this figure...if a pool player could make a good living, there is a lot of talent
out there....many will never experience how well they could play....
....'cause who wants to be a pool room bum.

In the action days of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, a good road player could go broke anywhere
in the country if a local was having a good day.

Actually that is 100% opposite of what the old road players say today... In those years you rarely ran into a player that could beat you that was 100% unknown...

The road men had little books to steer them with names, places and descriptions... Those descriptions were where most of the nicknames came from....

Now the sheep know what the wolfs look like and how they play...... With cell phones, better information and better players the road is dead... It was not dead thru the 80s...

 

[AtLarge]

... You can "live" on golf even if you are not the absolute best. If you can even manage to be top 100 and play around that level you are making great money, especially when you factor in sponsors pay for "most" of your travel expenses and lodging.

And don't forget all the other golf tours; they offer quite a bit of money as well -- Web.com Tour, European Tour, Asian Tour, Japan Tour, Champions Tour, LPGA Tour, and a bunch of others.

 

[pt109]

Actually that is 100% opposite of what the old road players say today... In those years you rarely ran into a player that could beat you that was 100% unknown...

The road men had little books to steer them with names, places and descriptions... Those descriptions were where most of the nicknames came from....

Now the sheep know what the wolfs look like and how they play...... With cell phones, better information and better players the road is dead... It was not dead thru the 80s...

I know a world champion who got the 8 from a young player in the mid-west....
...he was down a few games the first day...second day, he walked in and introduced
himself.....THEN he took a win playing even..the intimidation got him the cash...
...but that kid could've got better with exposure.
That same champion played a guy 8-ball in another small town near me....
....after two days, he was still even...he moved on.

I could probably come up with a 100 stories like that.....
...some of those road players have a selective memory.

 

[jwilliams]

Tyler Edey went and became an engineer. He was better than Morra when he quit IMO, he was the best player in Canada for a short while after he overtook Edwin. Edwin himself is now getting a little old to compete at a top level but 15 years or so ago he was a threat to beat anyone in the world despite playing very part time local "pro" pool instead of doing the whole tour with the big boys.

I always wondered what happened to Edey. He was a pleasure to watch play. Met him once at the Derby too and spoke to him briefly, he was a very nice guy. I agree that he was probably a stronger player than Morra. I have mixed emotions about hearing that he quit though. I think he definitely could have become one of the upper echelon players worldwide. But, he probably made the right choice in becoming an engineer. Career wise, it will be far more stable, will probably pay more (at least long term), and will provide a good retirement barring the unforeseen. Besides, while he may never hit his true pool playing peak, he'll still make a hell of a weekend road warrior. All the best to the guy!

 

[PoolBoy1]

From what I see most of em that don't have part time or fulltime jobs aren't eating well.

 

[Colonel]

how many US players have the ability / skill to go pro but can't because of w...

I'd say a few hundred. I know that many that went to ground as the Internet started killing action about the same time Greg Smith started keeping tabs on everything in the US & offered his steering services for a cut. There was no hiding anymore.

 

[Eric.]

Going to have to disagree. Calgary had a few players that could have played world class (what is world class today) if the game was developed and had the money like golf. They got phenomenal, won lots on the local scene, went down to Vegas nationals and won some open, masters, and grand masters events playing a fairly casual part time schedule and not really ever committing themselves 100% to a life of pool, then they got real jobs and quit playing pool much at all.

There is one guy no one here would know at all. Back in the day in Calgary we had a Thursday open 9-bal tournament at a place called the Black Wolf. Well on one Thursday the day before the finals of the Dufferin Tour in Calgary, which had a prize of about 10 grand that Thursday tournament drew in every out of town pro who came to play the tour final. The people who were there included

Edwin Montal
Stan Tourangeneau
Dave Martin
Glen Atwell
Many of the top players from the east coast and west coast of Canada,
ect...

Basically the event was packed. A local named Vince shot the lights out in the event, got all the way to Glen Atwell in the final, and drilled him for 1st place. This guy was under 20 at the time, broke awesome, shot straight and confident and had a great stroke and could move the white ball very well.

Same guy then did not even bother to play that tour event, quit playing pool shortly after he did that, and decided to play golf instead.

We have had others. Some might know PJ from Calgary. He went to the US Open the year they used crazy tight pockets, got knocked to the B-side fairly early, then went on a tear beating Buddy Hall, Tony Robles, and Tommy Kennedy among others. He had crazy good skills and is pretty fearless under pressure, in a world where pool truly rewarded the top players like a top sport I think he would have been right there at the top.

Tyler Edey went and became an engineer. He was better than Morra when he quit IMO, he was the best player in Canada for a short while after he overtook Edwin. Edwin himself is now getting a little old to compete at a top level but 15 years or so ago he was a threat to beat anyone in the world despite playing very part time local "pro" pool instead of doing the whole tour with the big boys.

When pool does not pay these guys have no impetus and no ability to commit to the game, so they decide to eat instead and go get a job to support their food habit.

Good insight. I think you painted a realistic picture. I was wondering what happened to Tyler Edey. He used to play the BCA Nationals tourneys too.

I think another way of answering the OP's question would be to look at the list of names that came out for the IPT tiur qualifiers. That would be your real life "what if" answer.


Eric

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Try this one-

I am curious how many players out there (that had the skill and the dedication to the game) would quit their full time job and risk their livelihood to go out on the road and try to survive by just playing pool?

Before you answer, I have a 2nd part to this question.

How much would the average tournament need to add to the pot (like $100,000 added for example) in order for players (that actually have the potential to become elite players) to quit their day jobs and take on that risk of playing full time?

Please keep in mind that this is purely a fantasy question.

I am mainly just curious how many players out there could give the top 5 players in the us a run for their money, if pool was actually worth their time in order to dedicate all of their time to practice.

(sigh)
All would if there were a decent living to be had.
All did (( See IPT ))

Even the the golfer who is ranked 112th place,
who no one has heard, of still makes over 100K

Unfortunately there is not an average of 100K to be earned by playing pool currently.

My thoughts come back to this:

Think about all the great players there are and have been that
we don't know about and will never know about!

I wonder how many really great players have gave up the game because there was more money to make doing something else.
MANY MANY MANY

 

[Bank it]

I'd venture to say a whole bunch. Saw something interesting yesterday at the hall.

A gentleman walked in dressed in a business suit, dress shoes, Rolex. Rented a table & cue. Started playing straights. Looked nothing like what you'd expect to see in a pool hall.

Ran 126. Got snookered on shape. Started over, ran a 137, with a house rental cue and then folded up and left. They're out there.

 

[kollegedave]

I wonder how many really great players have gave up the game because there was more money to make doing something else.

Thanks

Of all your questions, the one I quoted is the one that I found more interesting. I would count myself as pool player with "stunted improvement", because I chose to stop playing as college and law school offered a more promising future than pool.

For example, I think I could fairly be described as a strong B level player or low A depending on the scale. I would estimate that my FargoRate is around 600ish. I played almost this good when I was 16. I am 36. However, at 16, I saw the state of pool, and I opted to work and INVEST in academics and not pool. If I had invested in pool, I believe that I could have achieved an "open level" status in my early twenties.

I bet there are thousands like me, and many likely played better at an earlier age! How many people simply put pool down, because there is no future in it? There is no telling how much talent is lost, because pool cannot offer a stable future.

kollegedave

 

[Spimp13]

Judging on a lot of posts I see, I thought about 35% of AZ members could go pro if they wanted to lol?

 

[pt109]

Judging on a lot of posts I see, I thought about 35% of AZ members could go pro if they wanted to lol?

It's true that many of us AZers have missed very few balls...
....but that's 'cause we like dancing. :happydance:


pt...pullin' an Arthur Murray and waltzin' on outta here

 

[randallt6]

how many azbilliards members have the ability to get a promotion at work but can't because of the time wasted on azbilliards

 

[Drew]

I am mainly just curious how many players out there could give the top 5 players in the us a run for their money, if pool was actually worth their time in order to dedicate all of their time to practice.

A hundred thousand at least. More difficult games would need to be created to handle the new talent.

There are close to 7 billion people in the world. I'd guess about half of them played competitive soccer before they could read.

A billion people in North and South America...at least 30% have played competitive baseball.

A billion people in North America and Europe...20%-25% have played basketball.

...how many kids play pool?

Rest assured; the most talented "player" in the world has never seen a pool table.

The fundamental problem is that pool is not accessible. To play soccer, all you need is a ball (it doesn't even have to be round). Add a stick and you can play baseball or golf or hockey or cricket. Add a bucket and you can play basketball. But pool requires a purpose built piece of furniture and the real estate to to put it somewhere.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Just the fact that you have had established Pros and high end players, dealing drugs, ripping off change machines, borrowing money from suckers and never paying them back, and selling counterfeit gold and silver coins, should be a testament to exactly how bad pool sucks and why some good players, just bail on pool altogether.

If TOP players have to resort to illegal activity to make ends meet.
Why would they even want to take a shot at it if there is NO payoff unless you become one of the worlds dominant players?
And then what happens when your game drops off a little?
Better hope you put some away for a rainy day because once your game drops off a little, it's all downhill from there.

 

[jburkm002]

I Don't know. Aren't there a lot of pros that can't keep up against the top pros. I mean becoming a pro and cashing are two different things.

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