Get rid of jump cues for Mosconi Cup

[one stroke]

The expression was "that's so gay". Referring to quoting a poker movie. It wasn't a homosexual slur. It was just dumb...gay can be used as a term to mean "happy". It's like using "wonderful" to be sarcastic.

Please find where I called you a leech on society. I haven't edited one of my posts. Show my words calling you a leech. Or, are you lying, John?

Ya you hear gay used as a happy term just about everyday ,,,,, not ,, I don't know if Iv heard that use of the word in atleast a decade

1

 

[lfigueroa]

Actually I don't bet on chance things. When I offer to bet on here it's generally on something I can do (or think I can do) or something I know for sure.

Made me chuckle.

Lou Figueroa

 

[one stroke]

First you don't know that it's the "majority" of pros. Secondly, ALL of the professional players on the planet have a direct line to the people who make the rules. If, in fact, the majority of them didn't want jump cues in major events then jump cues would be banned from all major events.

I personally don't care either way. Ban jumping, ban the jump cue, doesn't matter to me, I will still play pool and enjoy it. But as long as they are allowed I will voice my opinion in support of them for the reasons I have already stated. if they get banned I won't be starting any crusade to reinstate them.

Yes the opinions of the best players carries weight, we agree. But don't conflate the stated opinion of a few players with the will of the majority.

Edit: I should say I won't be starting a crusade but IF the rule makers were to ask for public opinion then I would gladly write a letter in support of keeping jump cues for the reasons I have stated. And then if the rule was to ban them I certainly wouldn't whine incessantly about it on AZ billiards or any other forum.

You have a vested intrest , you helped put jump cues on the market so asking your opinion and expecting a unbiased answer is unrealalistic
So to any reasonable thinking person discards your tainted opinions
Other's here have no other intrest except for the good of the game

1

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I hope I get the case back soon. I will make a very nice video letter to you explaining to everyone who cares to watch it exactly why I fired you as a customer.

Sure, John. And I'll post the YouTube analysis of how your case actually wrecked the wrap on my Big Beulah 2 break cue, which is why I ended up buying a cheap butterfly case.

Notice I didn't say anything about this on the forum. Now that you've mentioned firing me, we may as well air all of the grievances. The UltraPad interior really likes to chew on the textured grips on the Lucasi cues.

 

[philly]

This thread has turned into a CTE thread. I am sensing a banning.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

This thread has turned into a CTE thread. I am sensing a banning.

Nah. I'm done pawing at JB. He just has a sense of elevated worth when it comes to his relevance in pool. He doesn't speak for "the players". He also doesn't speak for everyone that supports the jump cue. He speaks for himself. That's all. His opinion has no more value than anyone else here. He's just one shmoe on here with an opinion.

I normally don't engage him. However, when he starts the verbal tirades, then starts playing the victim, I usually poke him with a stick a few times.

JB will never get banned. He's the biggest abuser of the system, and the least punished. I may get banned if JB cries enough, but if that's how this board is run, I'm ok with their decision.

 

[JB Cases]

Sure, John. And I'll post the YouTube analysis of how your case actually wrecked the wrap on my Big Beulah 2 break cue, which is why I ended up buying a cheap butterfly case.

Notice I didn't say anything about this on the forum. Now that you've mentioned firing me, we may as well air all of the grievances. The UltraPad interior really likes to chew on the textured grips on the Lucasi cues.

Awesome, why don't you do your video first then and then I can address it with a rebuttal video.

I will take the lucasi cues I have with rubber grips and show everyone how they go in and out of cases easily with proper use.

Meanwhile, this was addressed over two years ago. In the video below I put three cues with rubber grips into our case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DScULhPx2qs

 

[JB Cases]

Nah. I'm done pawing at JB. He just has a sense of elevated worth when it comes to his relevance in pool. He doesn't speak for "the players". He also doesn't speak for everyone that supports the jump cue. He speaks for himself. That's all. His opinion has no more value than anyone else here. He's just one shmoe on here with an opinion.

I normally don't engage him. However, when he starts the verbal tirades, then starts playing the victim, I usually poke him with a stick a few times.

JB will never get banned. He's the biggest abuser of the system, and the least punished. I may get banned if JB cries enough, but if that's how this board is run, I'm ok with their decision.

Really? You broke the rules many times in this thread alone and you call me an abuser.

You're already crying in advance anticipating the rebuke you know you deserve for your actions.

People like you are why the good folks on AZB are largely gone and spend most of their time on Facebook.

The only thing you poke is holes in your own inflated idea of your value. I have no illusion that I am anything to humanity but some guy who sells leather holsters for pool cues. You have this idea that you are some sort of super intelligent major contributor to society whose word on any topic is supposed to be taken as gospel. You make up your own facts and expect no challenge at all.

Then when you do get challenged - you start flailing around like an enraged toddler hurling every "insult" you think you can get away with.

Poke me with a stick, you don't have and have never had enough intelligence to cause me the slightest grief. There are trolls on AZB who are masters at this craft, you are not one of them. Maybe if you keep practicing you can join their ranks but from my observation you still have a long way to go.

 

[JB Cases]

You have a vested intrest , you helped put jump cues on the market so asking your opinion and expecting a unbiased answer is unrealalistic
So to any reasonable thinking person discards your tainted opinions
Other's here have no other intrest except for the good of the game

1

I state clearly all the time where my opinion comes from. Not trying to hide anything.

Every time this subject comes up I make the same exact arguments as many others who DO NOT have any industry involvement and yet several of you decide that you want to attack me and try to discredit my contributions.

But when someone needs help with some information I get PMs asking me for my experience. All I ever ever do is provide the facts I know and try to dispel the falsehoods propagated by those who obviously do not have the actual facts but like to pretend that they do.

Now, I can understand your point, on the question of jump cues yes or no obviously the guy who sells them is likely to be on the yes side no matter what, fair enough. That still doesn't change the facts.

Also, I merely responded to the market. The question about whether to allow jump cues and their specifications was settled years before I ever brought a jump cue to market. That's really my central point here. Why keep whining about them when they have been a part of the game officially for more than 20 years? If pool went to the olympics then there would be jump cues there. It's just one part of the game in areas where they are needed.

Honestly, y'all are making me want to create another jump cue brand and start selling them again.

 

[JB Cases]

"Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
This board is going for a major crap dive as of late, and I just don't get it. Perhaps at the ripe old age of 43, I've grown up more than the average person, but I don't get why 98% of the people on here feel like being Don Quixote...

There are people in this world that have a chip on their shoulder, and nothing will fill it in. Not your sarcastic post, or witty and well thought out response you carefully crafted over the past 30 minutes. I used to be a hothead in my 30s. I felt the need to argue my point, and screw you if you happened to disagree with me. I mean, I have spare time and a wicked vocabulary, so I felt I had a right to engage anyone I wanted.

2 children later, a separation, a brother that had cancer, and other life altering events have caused me to grow up a little/lot. Do I get along with everyone on AZB? Nope. That's reflective of my life. There are people that rub me the wrong way. How do I handle them? I don't. I avoid them. I know nothing good comes from engaging them in any discussion. I wish that a lot of people on these boards would learn this lesson. Ask yourself....will my post change anything, or is it just me trying to make myself look smart at someone else's expense.

Russ should have been banned. There is no place on a public forum to tell someone to _____ themself. He didn't need to put it into the message he posted to get his point across. He let his emotions get the best of him. RKC should be banned for what he's writing on this post, as well as some of his posts in the past. I don't lose sleep over it. I wouldn't get him to work on my pool table, and I don't think he'll lose sleep over that. I would never buy a case from John Barton, and I don't think he's losing sleep over that, either.

Ignore the people that bother you. If you don't, you're just allowing those people to torment you and consume space in your brain that they shouldn't occupy.

As far as Wilson, I've had my run ins with him. I have come to respect him. He has a thankless job. And everyone wants to point out his faults. He turned me into a gentler poster that doesn't blow up the way I used to a few years ago. So, I think he's been a positive influence.

My 2 cents."

lols............

 

[one stroke]

I state clearly all the time where my opinion comes from. Not trying to hide anything.

Every time this subject comes up I make the same exact arguments as many others who DO NOT have any industry involvement and yet several of you decide that you want to attack me and try to discredit my contributions.

But when someone needs help with some information I get PMs asking me for my experience. All I ever ever do is provide the facts I know and try to dispel the falsehoods propagated by those who obviously do not have the actual facts but like to pretend that they do.

Now, I can understand your point, on the question of jump cues yes or no obviously the guy who sells them is likely to be on the yes side no matter what, fair enough. That still doesn't change the facts.

Also, I merely responded to the market. The question about whether to allow jump cues and their specifications was settled years before I ever brought a jump cue to market. That's really my central point here. Why keep whining about them when they have been a part of the game officially for more than 20 years? If pool went to the olympics then there would be jump cues there. It's just one part of the game in areas where they are needed.

Honestly, y'all are making me want to create another jump cue brand and start selling them again.

I'm not attacking you , just your opinion , your truley over valuing your worth to the industry if you were to close up shop pool would carry on just the same
The only fact you have stated that has any real merit is ,, jump cues are allowed
Everything else is purely opinion and has no more value than any other poster

1

 

[JB Cases]

I'm not attacking you , just your opinion , your truley over valuing your worth to the industry if you were to close up shop pool would carry on just the same
The only fact you have stated that has any real merit is ,, jump cues are allowed
Everything else is purely opinion and has no more value than any other poster

1

I don't overvalue anything. I know full well that I am a small player. However I do take time out to answer questions for those who are looking for help. Giving them factual answers that they were not able to get elsewhere. And when I don't know I usually can send them to someone who does.

I have stated many other facts that not only have merit they are indisputable.

And I get it that it's opinion, yet why do you attack me, why do not chastise Shawn for attacking me?

We could have a normal discussion, your opinion, my opinion, friendly banter, cite links whatever without ever once getting personal. Yet, several of you seem to feel some NEED to get personal. I don't understand it.

 

[JB Cases]

Some good points. Some, you're way off.

I think the best jumper on both teams was Ouschan, hands down. He drilled a down the rail cut shot with a jump cue that was tough. He speared nearly every jump shot he attempted.

As far as hating on the jump cue because you can't play a good safety, modern jump cue technology has made it that you pretty much have to freeze the ball to get safe. I'm pretty good with a jump cue, but I don't like them in the game. That being said, they're legal in the leagues and events that I play, so I would be handicapping myself if I didn't own one, or know how to use one. It's a little frustrating having to roll the cue ball 17'+ on a table, ending up 6" behind a blocker, and watching a guy just pogo out of it, while someone offers the advice "you should have played a better safety". All in all, I think it works out in the wash. I have been lucky on a kick shot, where I hit the ball and hooked him. People seem to whine less when that happens, even though you sometimes get the same result with the short cue.

It's in the game for now. Better that players just accept it, and deal with it. Otherwise, play in leagues and events that don't allow jump cues. The pros seem to be ok with it, otherwise they'd be petitioning for a change.

Funny, you made almost the EXACT same argument I did, and yet now 10 pages later you are completely the opposite.

I give up, you like arguing WAY WAY WAY more than me if you're willing to take both sides just to get more digs in.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I don't overvalue anything. I know full well that I am a small player. However I do take time out to answer questions for those who are looking for help. Giving them factual answers that they were not able to get elsewhere. And when I don't know I usually can send them to someone who does.

I have stated many other facts that not only have merit they are indisputable.

And I get it that it's opinion, yet why do you attack me, why do not chastise Shawn for attacking me?

We could have a normal discussion, your opinion, my opinion, friendly banter, cite links whatever without ever once getting personal. Yet, several of you seem to feel some NEED to get personal. I don't understand it.

You're the only person that seems to have a problem with me, John. No one complains about my attacks, because I don't attack. I do onto others as they do onto me. Treat me with respect, and you get it in return. You seem to think you are the most intelligent poster on AZB. Far from it. Yeah, you're verbose. So are confidence men. So, several people have said the same things to you that I have. You keep on "flailing" with the "Shawn's evil" posts. Many have issues with you. Only person having issues with me is you.

Michael Jordan and Larry Bird only ever struck one player in their careers. Bill Laimbeer. There are two possible explanations. Either both of them had momentary flashes of violence, and Bill was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or, Bill did something to provoke it. Kinda rings true on here, too. Many people seem to "attack" you, John. Either get a thicker skin, or stop posting. Simple.

 

[JB Cases]

Every time this comes up in the forums, I hesitate to respond because people get very emotional, almost religious, about this topic. This post may seem like a rant, but I assure you it is not, and it won't upset me one iota if you disagree.

That being said, below are some of my thoughts on jumping and jump cues.

Jumping is easy, kicking is hard
Using a jump cue, with a little training, getting the cue ball airborne is easy. That's where "jumping is easy" ends. Jumping is a skill, just like any other, and it takes work, knowledge, and practice to maximize that skill. Once you learn how to get the ball airborne, you have to learn how to not hit it too hard, how to land it where you want, how to hit it on line, how to pocket balls, and ultimately how to control the cue ball afterwards.

In my local room, I think I am regarded as one of the better practitioners of the jump shot. Why? Because I practice it. I've put in my time to develop the skill. While jumping I have (intentionally) made balls and applied english and spin. I have jump caromed, jump masse'd, jump banked, jump kicked, and jump safetied. I once jumped my own ball in eight-ball: not because I got out of position, but because it was the best way to complete the run out. I've tried (unsuccessfully) to double jump, but I'll get there some day.

I've dart jumped, sidearm jumped, long cue jumped, and rail jumped. I've jumped balls very close and far away. I've jumped into a cluster to strike a specific ball on top. And if you think it was "easy" to get to that skill level, then we'd have to agree to disagree. Even though my "make" percentage is very low, in the grand scheme of things, I've gotten pretty good at it by hard work and effort. And don't forget that developing the skill isn't enough, you also have to have the imagination and the vision to see the shot and the courage to pull the trigger.

I get tired of hearing that "jumping is easy". I love seeing a good jump shot, because I know it's more difficult than a regular shot. It's harder to aim, it's harder to stroke the ball on the proper line, and it's harder to control the cue ball, both before and after the object ball is contacted. The margin for error is much smaller when you add the third dimension. Do you know why the pros jump with such confidence? They practice the jump shot. If it was so easy, they wouldn't need to practice. And yes, they use good equipment. And they have great imaginations. And, let's face it, they're just better at this than we are.

Does kicking require more skill? To achieve the same level of skill, absolutely. I can kick and hit a ball fairly well, and some of the time I can even hit the correct side of the object ball, and sometimes I can control the cue ball afterwards. I applaud anyone who can truly master kicking, especially considering all the mitigating factors between tables: rail/bumper quality, cloth condition and cleanliness, speed, humidity, english, spin, how hard the cue ball was struck, and so on. But the difficulty of kicking in no way alleviates the difficulty of jumping. Both are skills that take time and effort to develop.

Banning the jump shot
Reading all that above, you may think that I would get upset if the jump shot was banned. I would not. As long as the same rules apply to everyone, that's equitable. When I was learning how to play, before jump cues were really a thing, I took lessons from a guy who played on the BCA tour (and owned our local pool hall, where I worked). He found me practicing the jump shot one day (full cue at the time), and told me not to bother because the BCA was going to outlaw the jump shot. 25 years later, here we are.

I do think pool was intended to be played two dimensionally. We don't allow the scoop shot, which is basically an intentional miscue. If we wanted to extend that to say that any action that causes the cue ball to intentionally leave the surface of the table is a foul, then so be it. Until that day comes, however, the jump shot is just another part of the game.

On banning jump cues
Assuming the jump shot is still legal, the problem with banning the jump cue is it's a slippery slope. If you're going to ban the jump cue because it is a "specialty" cue, then you have to ban the break cue as well. It doesn't matter if your justification is to protect your playing tip, it's a cue designed and used for a specialty shot, so the same logic applies. At the very least, you have to ban special break tips. And shafts. And ferrules. While we're at it, we have to ban the bridge and the temporary cue extension. These are specialty pieces of equipment used for specialty shots and specialty situations.

Again, I'm OK if this happens, because the same rules would apply to everyone. Is it realistic? Heck no. But the idea that jump cues are ruining the game is as preposterous as saying the bridge is ruining the game.

Conclusions
As long as the jump shot is still legal, the jump cue should be legal. You may not like jumping, which is fine, but don't jump to the conclusion (sorry, I couldn't resist) that it is either too easy or ruining the game. At the end of the day, I still have to select the shot, aim, and stroke. No cue, jump or otherwise, is going to do that for me.

Again, best post in the the thread.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Really? You broke the rules many times in this thread alone and you call me an abuser.

Post my violations. Inform the mods. Have me banned. I have done nothing against the rules in any of my posts. Meanwhile, your response of "you don't know shit" is within the rules, right?

 

[JB Cases]

You're the only person that seems to have a problem with me, John. No one complains about my attacks, because I don't attack. I do onto others as they do onto me. Treat me with respect, and you get it in return. You seem to think you are the most intelligent poster on AZB. Far from it. Yeah, you're verbose. So are confidence men. So, several people have said the same things to you that I have. You keep on "flailing" with the "Shawn's evil" posts. Many have issues with you. Only person having issues with me is you.

Michael Jordan and Larry Bird only ever struck one player in their careers. Bill Laimbeer. There are two possible explanations. Either both of them had momentary flashes of violence, and Bill was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or, Bill did something to provoke it. Kinda rings true on here, too. Many people seem to "attack" you, John. Either get a thicker skin, or stop posting. Simple.

Perfect timing.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Perfect timing.

Excellent example. He called me a "shit stain". Another guy that resorts to swearing when someone offers a different opinion. He also argued with several other posters in the thread. You conveniently forgot those, spin doctor

KT would be proud of his minion

 

[JB Cases]

Post my violations. Inform the mods. Have me banned. I have done nothing against the rules in any of my posts. Meanwhile, your response of "you don't know shit" is within the rules, right?

Um yeah, "you don't know shit" is perfectly within the rules. And apparently a very precise observation going by your posts in this thread even before I got involved.

Don't sweat it son, I am not looking to get you banned. You're doing a fine job of that on your own.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Um yeah, "you don't know shit" is perfectly within the rules. And apparently a very precise observation going by your posts in this thread even before I got involved.

Don't sweat it son, I am not looking to get you banned. You're doing a fine job of that on your own.

John, send me a PM. Stop wasting bandwidth with the "look at me". It's tiring. Buy some big boy pants, and stay on topic.