Is it never too late to become a great player?

Have one Tuesday nights at Top Hat Billiards in Parkville MD (just east of Baltimore.

There is also one at Magic 8 Cue Club (formally Johnny C's in my younger days) in Cockysville MD north of Baltimore.

justinb386 said:
I wonder where all in the USA they hold 14.1 (straight pool) leagues? Anyone know? Just curious.
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There have been a number of players on the World Snooker tour who have existed on the fringes, then blossomed in their late 30s, including the current World Champion, Stuart Bingham.

If you have the talent, put in the hard work practicing, and play against tough competition, you will find out how good you can be.

Would this commitment pass your cost/benefit analysis?
 
justinb386 said:
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Any recommendations?
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Free stuff: go to Dr. Dave's website. He also has DVDs for sale if you like the free stuff.

Lessons: if you can afford to practice, you can afford lessons. It's likely that your fundamentals are lousy. You at least need a checkup.

It is likely, given your description of your game 20 years ago, that you don't have much chance to finish in the money in the US Open in the next five years. Would you devote 10 years to improving your game? Also note that finishing in the money there does not alone qualify you as being a great player.

If you enjoy playing, play. If you want to play better because it is more fun to play better, get lessons. It would be foolish to go into this with the goal of being in the top 10 in the US.
 
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It's certainly possible than you can get back to your strong A level speed or better. But it is impossible to become 'great' at this point. I'm guessing by 'great player', you mean world class player - someone that is a legitimate threat to win or place high in major tournaments.

All the great players hit pool balls day and night for years, rarely missing a day. It's no different than any other skill game/sport. If you were a scratch golfer in high school/college and stopped competing for years, your chances of making it as a pro after all that time off is about zero. Pool isn't much different in that aspect.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
Have one Tuesday nights at Top Hat Billiards in Parkville MD (just east of Baltimore.

There is also one at Magic 8 Cue Club (formally Johnny C's in my younger days) in Cockysville MD north of Baltimore.
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Red Shoes Billiards in Chicago has a good group of guys that play and support the game. Hats off to Dennis Walsh (and owner John Lavin) who runs straight pool leagues and tournaments there.
 
Scaramouche said:
There have been a number of players on the World Snooker tour who have existed on the fringes, then blossomed in their late 30s, including the current World Champion, Stuart Bingham.

If you have the talent, put in the hard work practicing, and play against tough competition, you will find out how good you can be.

Would this commitment pass your cost/benefit analysis?
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But did Bingham quit the game for 20 years? Or did he play an average of four hours a day every month since he was 14?
 
After 35 years or so of being around the game, here's my observations:

It seems like most folks improve fairly steadily and then level off where there natural hand/eye/talent takes them. It seems after some time off, and especially as our eyesight weakens, ever passing your previous peak is rare.

So, I think you may be surprised how fast you get your game back, but improving significantly beyond that just doesn't seem to happen.
 
justinb386 said:
I wonder where all in the USA they hold 14.1 (straight pool) leagues? Anyone know? Just curious.
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Start your own if there's not one locally. Most room owners are glad to have other people who will do the work.

But to partly answer your question, there are three or four rooms in the San Francisco Bay Area that have weekly handicapped 14.1 leagues.
 
justinb386 said:
Yeah, you are right, I never played at an A level (unless you count an A level offensive game playing rotation pool). The A players that I knew back then played all aspects of the game at an A level, and that is why I could never beat them. They would lock me up behind a ball, and I could not kick my way out of it. So, no, I was never really an A player in my opinion (feel silly now for saying that I was). I did put a 6 pack on an 8 foot Valley once playing 9 ball, and back in those days, I could get out from anywhere (if I had a shot on the object ball, and I was a very consistent rotation player). Just never did any drills, and I think that is why I never got any better.
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I started playing pool about 10 yrs ago! (38 now)! I made it to a high B low A but I also work on average 60hrs a week! I play pretty much all the games equally!

I've run a few 80's in straights. I've run a few 8 and outs in 1- pocket. I've b&r 11 in a row 9-ball with the magic rack and even beaten the ghost with no ball in hand a couple times!

Could I make it to high level A or semi?? Solid A, YES! Past that, now sure! It takes a tremendous amount of time and commitment to achieve such a high level. I would rather look out for my future, so I work!

I definitely dream of being a pro, but I also dream of the pro being hungry with no where to sleep at night. (But they are a pro) sorry,,,, I can't do it!

Maybe if the top 25 players were doing exceptionally well(200k+ a yr) I would think differently! But if the top player in US is doing ok and the 2nd place is struggling,,,, no thanks!

Life is too precious to hope for a cosmo on the last rack hill hill for the rent money;)
 
justinb386 said:
Anyway, back to the question on the title of my thread .

Is it never too late to become a great player?
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It's never too late for anything. Realistically ...how good do you think you can get.
Me..I take lessons...work hard...and will only get so far. My only goal is to play a respectable game. Regardless I have always been the best in my house. And I intend to retain that title. Going on 69 and playing better than ever and looking to improve.
 
There's only one thing that holds anyone back; themselves. If you can get past the ego that seeks to hold you back then you can accomplish anything.
 
This is a little bit out of left field, but I'd bet Tom Cruise, at the age of 53, could become a "competitive" pro-player if he had the motivation to do so.

I think he probably has the right mixture of resources, skills, and abilities to do it.
 
Here is my opinion on this never-ending nature vs nurture debate) :

If you spend 5 hours a day for the next month solid playing the ghost, and playing some real compettiioton, you will be back to your exact speed when you quit. 35 years old is not too old to shoot the same a when you were 18. If you were 50, that is a different story.

Now, getting better than where you were when you quit, will depend on if you already playteued when you quit, or if you were still on the upswing.

No matter what, you can get incrementally better today with more knowledge if you already playeteued when you quit.

But if you had not platueeud when you quit, you might be able to reach a solid A or Open level, imo.

Key up Barton and the other Nurture supporters now:)
 
Tony_in_MD said:
Spanish Mike is an example of someone who turned pro in his 40's (I believe) If I am wrong I am sure I will be corrected.

He is also the oldest man ever to win the US Open 9 ball.

It can happen, it is not common.
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Spanish mike was a Puerto Rican champion when he was in his late teens/early 20s. Then he took off from the competitive game before resuming in the USA in his 40's/50's. So, he is an example of a player who reached the top level of play very young, took a break, and then found that same level of play much later in life.

He is NOT an example of a player who learned the game from zero late in life, but he is often used as an example of this.

I know this from a Billiards Digest article on him that I found online a few years back (it was an archive from the 90's). I can't find it now.
 
:(



Not everyone can be a great player and age has nothing to do with it.

I can also say at age 35...it's all down hill and all you can do is dream on.



:boring2:



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I think you have a chance, just like most people.
The problem everyone has, is life gets in the way.
Are you willing to ignore your family, friends, responsibilities, while you play pool non stop for several years?
I am always amazed at how fast some players change speed, but it is not overnight.
One of the biggest transformations I can think of was Neils Feijen.
Excellent player, did well in major tournaments but couldn't win them.
He played low 9 pro speed for 4 or 5 years, then he went and locked himself in somewhere, and when he came out 2 or 3 years later, he was a bona fide monster.
I think if you did drills, watched the right videos, made a list of players to test yourself against and get the feel of the pressure steadily rising, in 6 to 8 years you should probably get low pro speed.
You still wouldn't win any big tournaments, or beat any of the top 10% unless you caught them in a death spiral.
But, you would play great pool.
There are hundreds of guys like this all over the world.
Now, that is also dependent on you not getting sick or hurt, or caring about anything much besides your pool game.
I have seen lots of people do all this, and at the end , they hate pool, because it never gave anything back.
The problem is , you can't blame the game, everybody knew when they went in, there was no payoff at the end of the journey, they just refused to believe it.
My suggestion would be , play, have fun , practice drills etc. and put in all of your "free time" you want, just don't fall in the living the pool dream.
If you are meant to be a champion, you will make it this way and still have a life.
If you don't make it, you will still have fun and enjoy the game and also have a real life!
I could make a list of probably 200 players here , that played pool at or near the very highest level and one day just quit, because there is no reward.
Roger Griffis, Bobby Hunter, Mike Sigel, JR Calvert, Leil Gay.
If these guys couldn't make even a decent living, what chance does a high B player have?
{Probably closer to your true speed before you quit.}
I think you already stated that you probably were not really an A player, which I would tend to agree with by what you said were weaknesses.
Someone here could probably tell you exactly what level you played at if you gave a list of people you beat consistently and also a list of those who consistently beat you.
{If it was in a poolroom, not bars.}
Good luck, and remember, the journey is where you will find the reward in pool, if it is to be found.
 
I dunno.... Im 48 years old now on my 3rd year back in pool. In my 20's I was a C+ level player, but now Im vastly better and have learned more in 6 months of my comeback than I ever knew back then. Im smarter, wiser, more patient and willing to accept crushing defeat as valued lessons. Im a strong player now and will dig pretty far into any tournament ladder on any given day. This year Im concentrating on nothing but tournaments and plan to attend DCC 2017.

I dont think its too late for marked improvement or even excellence in any endeavor. A good friend of mine at my home room has been playing pool for most of his 70+ years and he is still getting better. He is crafty, patient, smart and has a mean streak a mile wide. I consider it a privileged to steal a game from him once in a while. Im sure everyone has seen people of all ages improve noticeably and permanently... happens all the time.

Regards,

Lesh
 
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