Entirely different argument. Also depends on where I'm driving.
Comparing a complex machine with a jointed piece of wood is a bit of a leap.
And, I'll take a YZF-R M1 anyday
Has the quality difference between "custom" and "production" become negligible?
- Thread starter Shawn Armstrong
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Entirely different argument. Also depends on where I'm driving.
Comparing a complex machine with a jointed piece of wood is a bit of a leap.
And, I'll take a YZF-R M1 anyday
And I had a Burton Spain cue and a Schmelke. Both had the same tip. Didn't matter to me which I played with, played the same, balls went in the hole. When I played "poorly" it was usually something mechanically in my stroke that was out of whack, not my cue. Just liked the Schmelke in places that were less than stellar or on any time playing on a Valley, for obvious reasons.
Got the Spain refinished by Hercek, and was afraid to play with it cause I might scratch it, so I sold to a collector. It was just too nice/valuable to play with after the refinish. I had it for 33 years.
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A few days ago I got to hit with a nice older Southwest cue.
My usual player is an old Brunswick butt with an OB shaft.
The Southwest felt fine, but like most customs and older cues, deflected quite a bit.
I really feel like custom cue "playability" is somewhat in people's heads.
The cue doesn't play well, the shooter does.
And I feel like I will, with any cue that meets certain basic requirements -
• No weird sound or vibration when I hit balls with it.
• Weight is in the normal range, and balance is normal.
• Butt material feels comfortable and doesn't distract me.
• Shaft is smooth and doesn't chafe or feel weird.
• Deflection amount is what I'm used to/prefer.
And that's about it. We're not including the tip since you can just put whatever you want
on virtually any cue.
So, if I get an obnoxious vibration or miscue a lot or the linen wrap
seems to make the grip sticky and dirty, those are all problems for sure,
but they don't need a multi-thousand dollar custom cue to solve.
Really the only thing I can see getting the custom for, is because it looks pretty.
It's cool when you get those little branded joint protectors and maybe a custom carrying case.
It's nice to imagine it will also last for many years longer than production,
but unless it literally warps, it doesn't matter if inlays pop out a little
or the wrap fades or whatever.
That's still an appearances thing, not a playability thing.
My usual player is an old Brunswick butt with an OB shaft.
The Southwest felt fine, but like most customs and older cues, deflected quite a bit.
I really feel like custom cue "playability" is somewhat in people's heads.
The cue doesn't play well, the shooter does.
And I feel like I will, with any cue that meets certain basic requirements -
• No weird sound or vibration when I hit balls with it.
• Weight is in the normal range, and balance is normal.
• Butt material feels comfortable and doesn't distract me.
• Shaft is smooth and doesn't chafe or feel weird.
• Deflection amount is what I'm used to/prefer.
And that's about it. We're not including the tip since you can just put whatever you want
on virtually any cue.
So, if I get an obnoxious vibration or miscue a lot or the linen wrap
seems to make the grip sticky and dirty, those are all problems for sure,
but they don't need a multi-thousand dollar custom cue to solve.
Really the only thing I can see getting the custom for, is because it looks pretty.
It's cool when you get those little branded joint protectors and maybe a custom carrying case.
It's nice to imagine it will also last for many years longer than production,
but unless it literally warps, it doesn't matter if inlays pop out a little
or the wrap fades or whatever.
That's still an appearances thing, not a playability thing.
So a hand built engine and vehicle is not going to perform better than a mass produced vehicle?Entirely different argument. Also depends on where I'm driving.
Comparing a complex machine with a jointed piece of wood is a bit of a leap.
And, I'll take a YZF-R M1 anyday
It's actually the exact same argument if you're comparing a top tier custom to almost any production based cue. Just because the technology is lower doesn't mean it should scale and transfer to any product.
It doesn't have to be cues, cars or shoes.. If money was no object to anyone, would you rather eat from the McDonald's dollar menu or Smash Burger/5 Guys?
If a cue is straight and has a decent tip, there's someone who's going to run racks with it but that does not mean you're going to pick-up the same piece of wood and agree it had good playability.
You want a 62"? Better stick an extension on the back or middle of your cue if it's a production. Have you ever rolled your cue with a balance rite joint extension? You should
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Someday I hope I'm good enough to own a custom cue.
Believe it.
They would never put a Scruggs shaft in that robot. Tim took one over. Then Mike had someone else take one over. Nope. Not happening. The only thing that makes most low deflection shafts shoot straight is the tips are smaller. Stupid really. Play with a thinner shaft and it should deflect less. No secret except to everyone on the planet that needs to shorten the learning curve.
Not all custom cues are custom built to last for a life time. Or play great for that matter.
Most do not.
The few that do are undeniably heads and sholders above other customs and mass production cues.
Nick
They would never put a Scruggs shaft in that robot. Tim took one over. Then Mike had someone else take one over. Nope. Not happening. The only thing that makes most low deflection shafts shoot straight is the tips are smaller. Stupid really. Play with a thinner shaft and it should deflect less. No secret except to everyone on the planet that needs to shorten the learning curve.
Not all custom cues are custom built to last for a life time. Or play great for that matter.
Most do not.
The few that do are undeniably heads and sholders above other customs and mass production cues.
Nick
I will be getting a Frey Sneaky Pete on Thursday. It was already made and took a few days from when I paid. Is that a custom cue? I also own a Schon STL-5. I called John last spring and specified the weight, rings, woods, veneer colors and added a leather wrap. It took 3 or 4 months to come in. Was that a production cue?
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Why wait? I have sold many to guys that should have bought a foosball table instead....
JV
JV
You don't have play good you just have to earn good.
I've seen many guys with $5K and up cues that can't run 6 balls.
They just like high end cues.
It's exceptional art and exceptionally crafted throughout. I wouldn't say it's the best constructed but it's among the best. There are others that construct to the standards Tony and Donny try to attain... Searing, Cognoscenti, Josey, Tascarella, Szamboti, Mobley, Gina, to name a few
Is the quality and playability of the production market as good as that of a custom? Of course the answer is yes and no. The answer was never an argument but rather a subjective inquiry into your preference.
I have zero problems with production cues but to me because they are so interchangeable and cheap, they are also disposable.
I just bought my first custom and to me I'm investing in my game rather than just investing in a good looking piece of equipment for everyone to gawk at.
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I have zero problems with production cues but to me because they are so interchangeable and cheap, they are also disposable.
I just bought my first custom and to me I'm investing in my game rather than just investing in a good looking piece of equipment for everyone to gawk at.
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Sam,
Some people aren't convinced that LD is better. The same goes with aiming systems, gloves, magic chalk and other "improvements". Heck some people aren't convinced that cues make that big a difference at all.
Mosconi ran 526 with a Rambow, no glove, regular chalk on nappy cloth.
And his case let the cues rattle. OMG....eeeeeeeeeek
JV
Deflection factors in far less in straight pool than in rotation where hitting a ball hard and juicing it is a regular occurrence,, you still see a lot of old schoolers play with ivory ferrules which have massive deflection ,, In fact I have several and I've tested them against my LD shafts and there's no comparison, in fact Tony said when talking to him I should scrap those Volkswagen shafts for his Ferrari LD high performance shafts ,,
Of course a lot is in the hand of the shooter ,, I once ran a rack with a window shade shooting with a steel pin as the tip
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Say how much do you get for a Tornado tournament pro ?
You want my best cash price, or we trading? I figure after I am bled for the best cash price you'll want me to take in a vintage bumper pool table and a Gnip Gnop MIB... :thumbup:JV
MIB !
JV
They didn't hold up too well, especially if I was losing.
I will dangle a box of cinnamon Danish-Go-Rounds at you that were stored in aluminum foil in a Permafrost substrate. Goes well with Tang.
Keep it up.
I agree, but if you earn well, and play, you should spend some of it on pool.
Pool is relatively cheap. So spend some money.
My hope is that the business of pool will support pool.
I missed a ball last night and thought damn..if I was still playing with my old lambros instead of my road line I wouldn't have missed that ! lol
Seriously...If your into custom cues and have the money it's great. They're working pieces of art and when it comes to price you can't really put a $ sign on art. Custom cues just aren't my thing anymore...I play every bit as good with my predator as I did with any of the customs I had and on the plus side I'm not always worried about dinging it or it getting damaged by some drunken idiot in some way.
Seriously...If your into custom cues and have the money it's great. They're working pieces of art and when it comes to price you can't really put a $ sign on art. Custom cues just aren't my thing anymore...I play every bit as good with my predator as I did with any of the customs I had and on the plus side I'm not always worried about dinging it or it getting damaged by some drunken idiot in some way.
In other words you want pool players to just be swapping money amongst themselves? I think it would be nice if money came from other places to support the professionals. But that means advertising for energy drinks and beer probably. Oh well.
Thank you kindly.
So let's rephrase the question. Is there a characteristic that some players prefer, that can only be produced by a custom cue maker, and not by a production cue maker?
Or is there a characteristic that currently is only produced by custom makers, and not by production makers (even if they could)?
If you think you were investing in your game by buying a custom cue, exactly what characteristic were you buying?
Thank you kindly.