APA Skill Level vs Win Percentage

in my local division i am one of about 12 8s. with an 80% winning %age. the few losses i do have are generally me just playing out right poorly. im rated top 0% out of nearly 3000 players (statistically i was 6th out of 2970 last i checked and with that being said those that were higher than me had several hundred games played over me).

im stuck giving up 25+ balls every match. the gap between the SLs in this division is severely off compared to others. of about maybe 2 dozen 7s. i have yet, if my memory serves me, to see a SL7 or higher even run a single rack. where as its common for me to throw a couple 2-3 packs nearly every time i play. they wont raise me to a 9 nor lower my opposition. lets not even talk about the safe game...its non existent in my division it seems. one solid safe and you have shattered your oppositions mentality.

edit : what im getting at is through multiple division for different locations and play level i dont see any real consistency in the SL7-9 range. in another division i played in had lower level players rated higher and vice versa. take it for what its worth and play some pool. its why we joined ya?
 
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RunoutJJ said:
Well Im an SL8 and in 20 matches Ive only lost one match and it was due to cheating. Well that and it got to me mentally and I let my opponent win by giving his cheating arse too many chances :angry:

The APA is for chumps and bangers and I will never play in any of their events ever again... I hate to say it but Im am way above and beyond any of players in that league.

Sorry to be a jerk or come off as conceded but it is what it is.. A league for cheaters cry babies and douchebags that dont want to go up a level... If they do they get kicked from the team.. The APA can piss off!!! :groucho:
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That's funny.... I looked for your name in the pro players' list but I couldn't find it....

Kim
 
RunoutJJ said:
Well Im an SL8 and in 20 matches Ive only lost one match and it was due to cheating. Well that and it got to me mentally and I let my opponent win by giving his cheating arse too many chances :angry:

The APA is for chumps and bangers and I will never play in any of their events ever again... I hate to say it but Im am way above and beyond any of players in that league.
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I was the OP. One of my points (from 13 weeks of APA data, which I admit is not exhaustive), was that the higher SL's beat the handicap and the lower SL's underperform, and the middle (SL4-5) score about 50%. So overall the Equalizer system seems to do what it tries to do ("Anyone can win!!!!"). But the best players will always be able to fade the handicap.
 
True. A 2, 3 or 4 should pretty much never beat a 7, but it does happen on occasion.

If players are really within their proper rating then most matches within 2 ranks would be pretty even if you got rid of SL 2 and 7 data. I say that because 7's can be much better then any other play but can't go any higher and 2's can be such a beginner that they have a hard time making a ball sitting 6" from the pocket with the cue ball 6" from it yet can't be rated any lower.
 
:lol:

Yeah im not a pro and never claimed to be. Have I played pro players? Sure!! Did I win a couple? Yes I have. Do I usually get the worst of it? Yup :lol:

Im not afraid to play anybody and no i still don't play in APA. Its for wankers :thumbup:
 
RunoutJJ said:
:lol:

Yeah im not a pro and never claimed to be. Have I played pro players? Sure!! Did I win a couple? Yes I have. Do I usually get the worst of it? Yup :lol:

Im not afraid to play anybody and no i still don't play in APA. Its for wankers :thumbup:
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Your 20 matches in the APA, in which you only lost once, averaged out to an SL 8. It didn't even average out to be a weak 9, so you are clearly not even a top player in APA terms, so get off the high horse.

It's not like when you were a 6 you had to progressively work your way up to a 9, and you just didn't have enough time to get there. That's not how it works.

The APA only takes into account your last 20 matches, and since you had 20 matches, there was enough data to calculate your SL, and it fell short of even the very low 9 range.
 
railbird99 said:
Your 20 matches in the APA, in which you only lost once, averaged out to an SL 8. It didn't even average out to be a weak 9, so you are clearly not even a top player in APA terms, so get off the high horse.

It's not like when you were a 6 you had to progressively work your way up to a 9, and you just didn't have enough time to get there. That's not how it works.

The APA only takes into account your last 20 matches, and since you had 20 matches, there was enough data to calculate your SL, and it fell short of even the very low 9 range.
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Isn't it the best 10 of your last 20? In theory, that would give somebody twice the opportunity to move up. I gave up playing apa 9 at the end of the year. My game needs work to post up good enough wins to justify having to play low teammates to fit me in. Easier to lose bad, for me, than it is to win big.
 
Skippy27 said:
True. A 2, 3 or 4 should pretty much never beat a 7, but it does happen on occasion.

If players are really within their proper rating then most matches within 2 ranks would be pretty even if you got rid of SL 2 and 7 data. I say that because 7's can be much better then any other play but can't go any higher and 2's can be such a beginner that they have a hard time making a ball sitting 6" from the pocket with the cue ball 6" from it yet can't be rated any lower.
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4s get a 5-2 spot. Break the balls funny or blow a runout, which the non-super 7s actually do every couple of games, and it's not too tough to lose to a 4. I'd much rather play a 5 or a 6.

I'm about 75% win overall, and I wouldn't be surprised if I were 85% vs. 5s and 6s and 65% vs. 4s and 7s. With 2s and 3s, it's probably 85% as well.
 
Love the data! The only rank that can be directly affected by only win percentage is 2. If you go abode 50% you move to a 3, which you can see in your data. You can theoretically have very high winning percentages for other ranks, although your average innings will be very close to moving you up in rank. I had around 90% over a two-year span as a 5.
 
Banks said:
Isn't it the best 10 of your last 20?
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I am not sure how they do it in 9 ball as I do not play it, but I know in 8 ball only games you have won affect your rating. I would imagine 9 ball is the same way to some effect.

I just had a discussion with someone from the office about someone sandbagging and is currently running up innings and losing. He laughed it off and said not to worry about it as he can lose for the next 2 years and it will have no bearing on his rating as only wins factor in.
 
Banks said:
Isn't it the best 10 of your last 20? In theory, that would give somebody twice the opportunity to move up. I gave up playing apa 9 at the end of the year. My game needs work to post up good enough wins to justify having to play low teammates to fit me in. Easier to lose bad, for me, than it is to win big.
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Either way, they are still taking into account your last 20 matches when selecting the best 10.
 
Skippy27 said:
I am not sure how they do it in 9 ball as I do not play it, but I know in 8 ball only games you have won affect your rating. I would imagine 9 ball is the same way to some effect.

I just had a discussion with someone from the office about someone sandbagging and is currently running up innings and losing. He laughed it off and said not to worry about it as he can lose for the next 2 years and it will have no bearing on his rating as only wins factor in.
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I think you may be a little confused here.

They only use the innings from the individual 8-ball games that you win, but they take into account every match, whether you win the match or not.

So when you lose a match, it's still possible to go up if that match is still one of your 10 best out of your last 20, and thus the innings from games you won that match are factored in.

It helps with sandbagging because someone has to keep the innings high and also win the game for it to make any difference. If someone tries to keep the innings high by missing on purpose, and their opponent takes advantage of that and wins the game, then they just lost a game and it didn't help them in their quest to lower their SL.
 
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I just calculated these results for the last two sessions of my 8-ball league. The findings are very similar to the original post from 2012, though we have a much wider dispersion. I omitted people who played in fewer than six matches in a session.

- All in all, the handicaps appear to be performing well in the aggregate, especially when looking at the PA% - with the exception of SL2.
- SL2's have real issues on our 9-foot tables and rarely win. They do marginally better in PA% thanks to needing only one win to get on the hill but still struggle.
- From there, win percentages go up for each skill level until SL6's, who win two thirds of the time and have a 50%+ PA%.
- Our SL7s are not routine B&R types and appear to do worse relative to the 6's, though the top two charts show that the best SL7s win just as often (if not more so) than the best SL6's.
- That said, results for SL6/7 should be taken with a grain of salt as there are only 6 and 5 entries across the two seasons for the SLs, respectively.
- SL3, SL4 and SL5 all have huge dispersions. Beer and whiskey are probably prime factors in that ;)
- Most players are SLs 3 through 5. Overall, 5's score better, but among those who come more often, the 4's are more successful.
- The PA% for people with at least 11 matches is amazingly consistent across SL, ranging between 45% and 51%.

Charts are 6+ matches (top left), 9+ matches (top right), and 12+ matches (bottom).

oyiUiI2.png
 
One more chart - overall win percentage for all matches in the last four sessions by skill level:

Messed this up, see post #61
 
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Good stuff, thanks for sharing your data. One explanation for the SL2 not having a single win rate above 50% is that I believe the league automatically promotes a SL2 to a SL3 once they have a win rate equal to or greater than 50%.
 
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