Bemoaning the rise of the bar box

[Donny Lutz]

The bar box

Well guys, I've had about all the bar box pool that this player can stand. About three years ago, I really gave it a good effort in the bca league and ended up with a high b & r %, the most perfect scores of anyone in the league, and finished second in the individual standings (not that you can really reach a definitive conclusion from this with all of the sandbagging and all). We won the trip to Vegas more times than I can count.

But in the last two years or so, I have not been enjoying either the league, and especially the table itself. Pool should be played on nine foot tables, period, imo. I split first place money last night in a bar box 8 ball tourney, and that is fine. But I enjoyed the ring game on the nine footer more for sure.

My desire to play on bar boxes is officially over. Bars are for drinking, not playing pool. I no longer feel compared to bear down on bar tables, in the league, or even bar box tourneys.

Sorry for the mini rant, but I had to get it out. It's pool on a nine footer or nothing for me. Guess that means that my basement might have the only one in a few years the trend seems to be. Sad but true. I guess it's time to play more darts and/or frisby golf.

I don't really disagree with you, but...

The introduction of the bar box made pool available to millions of people who did not have access to larger tables or room for a larger table in their homes. I played Mr. Mosconi when he was promoting bar tables in 1965. Many pros, including Nick Varner and Buddy Hall, played a lot of pool on small tables. I played on 9-footers in the '50s and '60s, and preferred them, but I could not resist the easy money to be made on the bar boxes from '65 on...

By the way, BCAPL leagues don't just play on small tables. The three BCA leagues I played in during the '90s played on 9-footers. Of the eight different league systems I've played in some were on bar boxes, some on 9-footers, some on 8-footers, and some (traveling leagues) on all three sizes. I developed the ability to adjust between the various tables and it helped me to somehow win 47 MVP titles...

 

[cueenvy]

You just described my Wednesday night league experience last week. Worst equipment bar none. The league should really have at least some minimal quality standard that venues, er, I mean bars have to meet.

Yes....but I play because there's a good auction and I like money! Only time I ever felt like a player on Valley bar box was when I won 3 consecutive racks to 4 for 50 a set...12 consecutive break and runs in 8 ball.

Playing on a Diamond 7 foot there are few truly bad rolls and I enjoy playing on them.

 

[cueenvy]

So many points on both sides of this discussion are accurate. For one I dislike the bar box and will give up pool rather than play on them. Watching pro's on them is a joke to me, one break & run after another. The leagues may just be the only relatively positive thing in pool as well and they are heading to bar boxes like it or not. What I'd like to see is someone interview the established pool room owners that have mostly nine foot tables and get their advice on what it takes to survive. I have spoken at length many times with Tony Coates owner of The Brass Tap in Raleigh and he is very approachable about what it takes. I believe all his tables are nine foot. He has seen many competitors come and go in his market, some very close to his location and yet he has remained viable and survived. If he is doing it others are as well, that may be where the rebirth of interest in playing on nine foot tables lies.

Seems to me what kills 9 foot rooms is less action. I'd be at the pool hall right now if it was like it used to be. Walk into the room and have your choice of guys to play for decent money. I have tables home so if nothing is happening, I'm fine right here. Need to keep starting more local big table tournaments to keep it going. I agree that there are no new players, maybe 3 here in 5 years. Several just stop playing. It's a fringe sport in America.

 

[vjmehra]

Probably a suggestion that will be hated on here...but...

For those that hate playing on US style 7 footers, why not try an English style 7 foot table...it is much much tougher!!!

 

[Pushout]

Probably a suggestion that will be hated on here...but...

For those that hate playing on US style 7 footers, why not try an English style 7 foot table...it is much much tougher!!!

7 foot is still 7 foot, so, why??

 

[King T]

Well Said!

The state of pool is such that there are a lot more league players than accomplished players. The only way a room owner has of making pool pay for itself is to market to Pool League Players because that is the market.

The fact that most leagues don't pay table time or a fee to the room owner means more 7ft tables to take up less floor space and get more people playing in the same room.

There just isn't enough good players that don't mind paying table time to keep a room open in my opinion.

No one is finding ways to bring in new players other than league systems so this is the way its going to flow.

Your got it right Sir! There are more Pool halls in Houston then any city in this country and most have 8ft table and bar tables because they pay the bills.

There are only 4 real Pool halls left in Houston and they also cater in large part to the league players and bangers because they have to, yes they keep the equipment up, yes they have some 9ft tables to play One Pocket on and yes they know who the players are, but leagues and drunks keep them alive.

 

[pwd72s]

I guess it's time to play more darts and/or frisby golf.

Cindy & I drive 90 miles long round trip in order to play on 9' tables. I don't care much for bar boxes or the places you find 'em in...especially in our small town, where the bars are dives full of rough characters.

But hey, have you ever considered tennis? This young lady looks like she could use some lessons...(yeah, a bit off topic, but worth the view. :wink

https://www.youtube.com/embed/3PYLnSrP3eE

 

[King T]

Just a reminder...,

I hear you brother. I rarely play bar box events and do so with trepidation. Short races, alternating break, bucket pockets, bad rails, bad cloth, balls, and bad rolls just punish improvement. If the races were longer you could fade the rolls easier but often it's races to 3 or less.

Yesterday I played a tournament, 4 sets. Won 2 and lost 2. Had 5 balls roll off, one hooked like a J and nearly cost me a set. 2 of my shots skid, including a 8 ball to get into the final 6...hard to trade a Saturday for that nonsense.

You Bar Box haters might wont to remember that the top tournament in the country is played on big pocket Valley Bar Boxes.

White Diamonds has 2 tournament a year both with $100,000 Calcutta's!!! So you guys might not like the Bar Box, but if you can get your game up you can make some real Money on these little tables.

 

[macguy]

7 foot is still 7 foot, so, why??

They have snooker type pockets very small from what I remember. I played on tables in Italy where the ball bearly fit in the pocket it was like a 7 foot golf table

 

[macguy]

Cindy & I drive 90 miles long round trip in order to play on 9' tables. I don't care much for bar boxes or the places you find 'em in...especially in our small town, where the bars are dives full of rough characters.

But hey, have you ever considered tennis? This young lady looks like she could use some lessons...(yeah, a bit off topic, but worth the view. :wink

https://www.youtube.com/embed/3PYLnSrP3eE

Are there just no rooms in your town or was there some that closed due to lack of support and interest?
If a room just can't make it what does that say.

 

[macguy]

You Bar Box haters might wont to remember that the top tournament in the country is played on big pocket Valley Bar Boxes.

White Diamonds has 2 tournament a year both with $100,000 Calcutta's!!! So you guys might not like the Bar Box, but if you can get your game up you can make some real Money on these little tables.

That is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. I remember when there was a trend for miniature golf to be on TV every week with current pros playing for pretty big money for that time. Imagine golf pros playing miniature golf to make a living. Probably not the best analogy but pretty close.

 

[Skippy27]

What gets me about league players is their complete disinterest in getting better. In the rated leagues, these nits would rather take a bullet to the head than be bumped-up a level. Another thing, forget all that drinking stuff. They are the CHEAPEST bunch on the planet. House gives them free practice(only time they ever hit balls,btw) and then they proceed to run the waitresses silly ordering water.

You must live in an area of the country that consist of nothing but dipshits and morons as I don't see any of that around me. But then again, I'm not some 9' elitest looking down on everyone from my pedestal so my view could be slightly off.

I think all pool halls should just ban all league players. They are just horrible for the game and do nothing for it except drain it of all the resources that could be better served for all those non-league players that have to stand outside waiting for league to end so they can get a table.

If it wasnt for league players pool would be flourishing throughout the US and we would be getting more and more pool halls every where all the time.

We should start a petition to stop all league play everywhere in the US and we should then have a 7' table burning in the center of town.

 

[Johnnyt]

Would most 9' players pay more an hour for the 9' than the 7'? I don't think so. 9' tables are declining and have been for at least 20 years. There are so many reasons for this that have discussed on here for years. If 9' tables had the support, there would be more of them. Johnnyt

 

[Skippy27]

That is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. I remember when there was a trend for miniature golf to be on TV every week with current pros playing for pretty big money for that time. Imagine golf pros playing miniature golf to make a living. Probably not the best analogy but pretty close.

LOL, yes so close. You have elitest asshat golf players too good for mini golf because it isn't what they think it should be just like you have elitest asshat 9' players thinking they are too good for bar tables. Pretty close if you ask me.

 

[cueenvy]

You Bar Box haters might wont to remember that the top tournament in the country is played on big pocket Valley Bar Boxes.

White Diamonds has 2 tournament a year both with $100,000 Calcutta's!!! So you guys might not like the Bar Box, but if you can get your game up you can make some real Money on these little tables.

If it wasn't a 13.5 hour drive I'd have to try it. .

Nice to see a guy like Olinger snap it off.

Alot of the rolls are smoothed out be a race to 21. And I believe it's winner breaks.

 

[Scott Lee]

Halfjack87...Well then you've got your head in the sand. There isn't even ONE poolroom with 9' tables in all of Dallas...a huge metro market. There are many pool bars across the country, including Dallas, that have 7' Diamond tables, which play just like a 9' Diamond. Like it or not, the 7' table is here to stay...and hopefully Diamond will continue to replace Valley tables in that market.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I don't believe it. I think the population density and free market economy will maintain the niche for nice pool halls with 9 ft tables. The majority is already 7 ft bar boxes, but that's been the case for a long time now. The difference is whether you're in a pool hall with a bar, or in a bar that has some pool tables. Oh, and they're smaller with bucket pockets so that you can play whilst wasted.

I don't buy in to the fading away of quality pool rooms.

 

[cueenvy]

That is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. I remember when there was a trend for miniature golf to be on TV every week with current pros playing for pretty big money for that time. Imagine golf pros playing miniature golf to make a living. Probably not the best analogy but pretty close.

How about the CSI Bar box 8 ball with pros running out over 85%...dry breaks decide the winner, not skill.

 

[cueenvy]

You must live in an area of the country that consist of nothing but dipshits and morons as I don't see any of that around me. But then again, I'm not some 9' elitest looking down on everyone from my pedestal so my view could be slightly off.

I think all pool halls should just ban all league players. They are just horrible for the game and do nothing for it except drain it of all the resources that could be better served for all those non-league players that have to stand outside waiting for league to end so they can get a table.

If it wasnt for league players pool would be flourishing throughout the US and we would be getting more and more pool halls every where all the time.

We should start a petition to stop all league play everywhere in the US and we should then have a 7' table burning in the center of town.

But what we do with all the chalk holders and cue claws? Nothing as silly as league bangers who thinks they can play a little.

 

[cueenvy]

LOL, yes so close. You have elitest asshat golf players too good for mini golf because it isn't what they think it should be just like you have elitest asshat 9' players thinking they are too good for bar tables. Pretty close if you ask me.

Guy puts off a windmill for 50k ....just shoot me.

 

[Scott Lee]

Wow...that lady will NEVER drown! LMAO

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

.

But hey, have you ever considered tennis? This young lady looks like she could use some lessons...(yeah, a bit off topic, but worth the view. :wink

https://www.youtube.com/embed/3PYLnSrP3eE