Bemoaning the rise of the bar box

[jalapus logan]

Well guys, I've had about all the bar box pool that this player can stand. About three years ago, I really gave it a good effort in the bca league and ended up with a high b & r %, the most perfect scores of anyone in the league, and finished second in the individual standings (not that you can really reach a definitive conclusion from this with all of the sandbagging and all). We won the trip to Vegas more times than I can count.

But in the last two years or so, I have not been enjoying either the league, and especially the table itself. Pool should be played on nine foot tables, period, imo. I split first place money last night in a bar box 8 ball tourney, and that is fine. But I enjoyed the ring game on the nine footer more for sure.

My desire to play on bar boxes is officially over. Bars are for drinking, not playing pool. I no longer feel compared to bear down on bar tables, in the league, or even bar box tourneys.

Sorry for the mini rant, but I had to get it out. It's pool on a nine footer or nothing for me. Guess that means that my basement might have the only one in a few years the trend seems to be. Sad but true. I guess it's time to play more darts and/or frisby golf.

 

[cueenvy]

I hear you brother. I rarely play bar box events and do so with trepidation. Short races, alternating break, bucket pockets, bad rails, bad cloth, balls, and bad rolls just punish improvement. If the races were longer you could fade the rolls easier but often it's races to 3 or less.

Yesterday I played a tournament, 4 sets. Won 2 and lost 2. Had 5 balls roll off, one hooked like a J and nearly cost me a set. 2 of my shots skid, including a 8 ball to get into the final 6...hard to trade a Saturday for that nonsense.

 

[336Robin]

The state of Pool

The state of pool is such that there are a lot more league players than accomplished players. The only way a room owner has of making pool pay for itself is to market to Pool League Players because that is the market.

The fact that most leagues don't pay table time or a fee to the room owner means more 7ft tables to take up less floor space and get more people playing in the same room.

There just isn't enough good players that don't mind paying table time to keep a room open in my opinion.

No one is finding ways to bring in new players other than league systems so this is the way its going to flow.

Well guys, I've had about all the bar box pool that this player can stand. About three years ago, I really gave it a good effort in the bca league and ended up with a high b & r %, the most perfect scores of anyone in the league, and finished second in the individual standings (not that you can really reach a definitive conclusion from this with all of the sandbagging and all). We won the trip to Vegas more times than I can count.

But in the last two years or so, I have not been enjoying either the league, and especially the table itself. Pool should be played on nine foot tables, period, imo. I split first place money last night in a bar box 8 ball tourney, and that is fine. But I enjoyed the ring game on the nine footer more for sure.

My desire to play on bar boxes is officially over. Bars are for drinking, not playing pool. I no longer feel compared to bear down on bar tables, in the league, or even bar box tourneys.

Sorry for the mini rant, but I had to get it out. It's pool on a nine footer or nothing for me. Guess that means that my basement might have the only one in a few years the trend seems to be. Sad but true. I guess it's time to play more darts and/or frisby golf.

 

[Halfjack87]

The state of pool is such that there are a lot more league players than accomplished players. The only way a room owner has of making pool pay for itself is to market to Pool League Players because that is the market.

The fact that most leagues don't pay table time or a fee to the room owner means more 7ft tables to take up less floor space and get more people playing in the same room.

There just isn't enough good players that don't mind paying table time to keep a room open in my opinion.

No one is finding ways to bring in new players other than league systems so this is the way its going to flow.

I don't believe it. I think the population density and free market economy will maintain the niche for nice pool halls with 9 ft tables. The majority is already 7 ft bar boxes, but that's been the case for a long time now. The difference is whether you're in a pool hall with a bar, or in a bar that has some pool tables. Oh, and they're smaller with bucket pockets so that you can play whilst wasted.

I don't buy in to the fading away of quality pool rooms.

 

[jalapus logan]

I hear you brother. I rarely play bar box events and do so with trepidation. Short races, alternating break, bucket pockets, bad rails, bad cloth, balls, and bad rolls just punish improvement. If the races were longer you could fade the rolls easier but often it's races to 3 or less.

Yesterday I played a tournament, 4 sets. Won 2 and lost 2. Had 5 balls roll off, one hooked like a J and nearly cost me a set. 2 of my shots skid, including a 8 ball to get into the final 6...hard to trade a Saturday for that nonsense.

You just described my Wednesday night league experience last week. Worst equipment bar none. The league should really have at least some minimal quality standard that venues, er, I mean bars have to meet.

 

[jalapus logan]

I don't believe it. I think the population density and free market economy will maintain the niche for nice pool halls with 9 ft tables. The majority is already 7 ft bar boxes, but that's been the case for a long time now. The difference is whether you're in a pool hall with a bar, or in a bar that has some pool tables. Oh, and they're smaller with bucket pockets so that you can play whilst wasted.

I don't buy in to the fading away of quality pool rooms.

They may have a niche, but not in Lexington KY, nor even within a 50 mile radius of our fair city. Are lone remaining pool hall has exactly 4 furniture grade junk olhausens that spit balls right back onto the table even if you split the wicket. Maybe there are nine footers galore in Texas, but not in my area. I know there are some in Louisville, but I'm not driving an hour one way to play a few racks.

 

[336Robin]

Where have you been?

I don't believe it. I think the population density and free market economy will maintain the niche for nice pool halls with 9 ft tables. The majority is already 7 ft bar boxes, but that's been the case for a long time now. The difference is whether you're in a pool hall with a bar, or in a bar that has some pool tables. Oh, and they're smaller with bucket pockets so that you can play whilst wasted.

I don't buy in to the fading away of quality pool rooms.

I'm not sure where you've been but weve lost thousands of pool rooms all over the United States, in all kinds of configurations and the only thing left standing in most places are the 7ft tables and there are reasons that is. No supporting players. No new interest. No governing body advertising the sport.

 

[Type79]

The difference is whether you're in a pool hall with a bar, or in a bar that has some pool tables.

Amen.

Or to put it another way, Do you want to go out to drink and play pool or do you want to play pool and have a drink?

 

[336Robin]

Its what it is.

Amen.

Or to put it another way, Do you want to go out to drink and play pool or do you want to play pool and have a drink?

I don't like it anymore than anyone else but it is what it is. The environment is an indication of what it is.

 

[garczar]

I play in a nice place with GC4's& Diamond boxes. What gets me about league players is their complete disinterest in getting better. In the rated leagues, these nits would rather take a bullet to the head than be bumped-up a level. Another thing, forget all that drinking stuff. They are the CHEAPEST bunch on the planet. House gives them free practice(only time they ever hit balls,btw) and then they proceed to run the waitresses silly ordering water. They tried to get me in a 32 WEEK league. I told 'em i'd rather have a root canal with a butterknife.

 

[jalapus logan]

I don't like it anymore than anyone else but it is what it is. The environment is an indication of what it is.

Yeah, and it sucks!!!

 

[Quesports]

So many points on both sides of this discussion are accurate. For one I dislike the bar box and will give up pool rather than play on them. Watching pro's on them is a joke to me, one break & run after another. The leagues may just be the only relatively positive thing in pool as well and they are heading to bar boxes like it or not. What I'd like to see is someone interview the established pool room owners that have mostly nine foot tables and get their advice on what it takes to survive. I have spoken at length many times with Tony Coates owner of The Brass Tap in Raleigh and he is very approachable about what it takes. I believe all his tables are nine foot. He has seen many competitors come and go in his market, some very close to his location and yet he has remained viable and survived. If he is doing it others are as well, that may be where the rebirth of interest in playing on nine foot tables lies.

 

[336Robin]

Location, Location, Location

So many points on both sides of this discussion are accurate. For one I dislike the bar box and will give up pool rather than play on them. Watching pro's on them is a joke to me, one break & run after another. The leagues may just be the only relatively positive thing in pool as well and they are heading to bar boxes like it or not. What I'd like to see is someone interview the established pool room owners that have mostly nine foot tables and get their advice on what it takes to survive. I have spoken at length many times with Tony Coates owner of The Brass Tap in Raleigh and he is very approachable about what it takes. I believe all his tables are nine foot. He has seen many competitors come and go in his market, some very close to his location and yet he has remained viable and survived. If he is doing it others are as well, that may be where the rebirth of interest in playing on nine foot tables lies.

The Brass Tap is in a fairly large urban location for one thing so the concentration of players helps his daytime business which is a big key into making things work. That's my opinion.

 

[macguy]

Well guys, I've had about all the bar box pool that this player can stand. About three years ago, I really gave it a good effort in the bca league and ended up with a high b & r %, the most perfect scores of anyone in the league, and finished second in the individual standings (not that you can really reach a definitive conclusion from this with all of the sandbagging and all). We won the trip to Vegas more times than I can count.

But in the last two years or so, I have not been enjoying either the league, and especially the table itself. Pool should be played on nine foot tables, period, imo. I split first place money last night in a bar box 8 ball tourney, and that is fine. But I enjoyed the ring game on the nine footer more for sure.

My desire to play on bar boxes is officially over. Bars are for drinking, not playing pool. I no longer feel compared to bear down on bar tables, in the league, or even bar box tourneys.

Sorry for the mini rant, but I had to get it out. It's pool on a nine footer or nothing for me. Guess that means that my basement might have the only one in a few years the trend seems to be. Sad but true. I guess it's time to play more darts and/or frisby golf.

Without knowing your age I would say without the bar table you would not be playing pool at all.
They saved the game. Without the bar table pool would be like trying to find a place to play Duck Pins.
Look how hard it is now to find a nice place with 9 foot tables to play. Imagine what it would be like if the bar table had not saved the sport all together. You would have to look in books to see what a pool table used to look like, you would not be able to find any, none.

I remember when even the Brunswick bowling alleys were closing their billiard rooms, often beautiful 20 and 30 table rooms and converting them to banquet and meeting rooms. Pool was over, period. The sport was officially dead. The bar table saved it, brought it back from the dead.

 

[NINEBALLART]

Our pool room has 7, 7 foot Valley's...19, 9 foot tables....
We used to have 2 tournaments a week on the 9 footers...Anywhere from 32 to 60 players with a go off bucket....
There are no more tournaments on the 9 footers..They tried every promotion they could think of and to no avail...9 foot tourneys completely gone...
So recently they tried a Thursday night tourney on the 7 foot Valley's...25 to 32 players show up every week....
There is a BCA 8 ball league on 7 footers on Mon., Tues., and Wed. nights..A Scotch Doubles league on Thurs....12 teams on Mon., 14 teams on Tues., 8 teams on Wed. and 12 teams on Thur. .7 footers have taken over and pool room is packed every night....

 

[336Robin]

The honest truth

Without knowing your age I would say without the bar table you would not be playing pool at all.
They saved the game. Without the bar table pool would be like trying to find a place to play Duck Pins.
Look how hard it is now to find a nice place with 9 foot tables to play. Imagine what it would be like if the bar table had not saved the sport all together. You would have to look in books to see what a pool table used to look like, you would not be able to find any, none.

I remember when even the Brunswick bowling alleys were closing their billiard rooms, often beautiful 20 and 30 table rooms and converting them to banquet and meeting rooms. Pool was over, period. The sport was officially dead. The bar table saved it, brought it back from the dead.

This is the honest truth from a former room owner who knows what it takes to rebuild a business. If anyone knows this guy knows.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

I play in a nice place with GC4's& Diamond boxes. What gets me about league players is their complete disinterest in getting better. In the rated leagues, these nits would rather take a bullet to the head than be bumped-up a level. Another thing, forget all that drinking stuff. They are the CHEAPEST bunch on the planet. House gives them free practice(only time they ever hit balls,btw) and then they proceed to run the waitresses silly ordering water. They tried to get me in a 32 WEEK league. I told 'em i'd rather have a root canal with a butterknife.

I have always been interested in the mentality that is resistant to getting better. One league player was telling me about all the 7's he defeated, and I said "that's great! You should be moving up from a 5 for sure!" And he immediately switched gears and explained how that shouldn't happen. I thought we all play the game to get better. Apparently not.

Your post gave me a good laugh. Well done.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Well guys, I've had about all the bar box pool that this player can stand. About three years ago, I really gave it a good effort in the bca league and ended up with a high b & r %, the most perfect scores of anyone in the league, and finished second in the individual standings (not that you can really reach a definitive conclusion from this with all of the sandbagging and all). We won the trip to Vegas more times than I can count.

But in the last two years or so, I have not been enjoying either the league, and especially the table itself. Pool should be played on nine foot tables, period, imo. I split first place money last night in a bar box 8 ball tourney, and that is fine. But I enjoyed the ring game on the nine footer more for sure.

My desire to play on bar boxes is officially over. Bars are for drinking, not playing pool. I no longer feel compared to bear down on bar tables, in the league, or even bar box tourneys.

Sorry for the mini rant, but I had to get it out. It's pool on a nine footer or nothing for me. Guess that means that my basement might have the only one in a few years the trend seems to be. Sad but true. I guess it's time to play more darts and/or frisby golf.

I believe in the future, in areas that aren't major metropolitan populations, but also not tiny towns...middle sized cities...we will see the rise of pool clubs where memberships and greens fees keep the rent paid.

There won't be many, but just enough to go and play the sport the way it is meant to be.

But even in UK, snooker clubs are struggling to survive. Like this article says, they must adapt to survive.

http://www.livingsnooker.com/blogs/...-clubs-must-adapt-or-they-will-become-extinct

 

[jalapus logan]

I believe in the future, in areas that aren't major metropolitan populations, but also not tiny towns...middle sized cities...we will see the rise of pool clubs where memberships and greens fees keep the rent paid.

There won't be many, but just enough to go and play the sport the way it is meant to be.

But even in UK, snooker clubs are struggling to survive. Like this article says, they must adapt to survive.

http://www.livingsnooker.com/blogs/...-clubs-must-adapt-or-they-will-become-extinct

That would be something that I would be interested in. I get that bar tables "saved" pool, but I don't have to like it!!!

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

Well guys, I've had about all the bar box pool that this player can stand. About three years ago, I really gave it a good effort in the bca league and ended up with a high b & r %, the most perfect scores of anyone in the league, and finished second in the individual standings (not that you can really reach a definitive conclusion from this with all of the sandbagging and all). We won the trip to Vegas more times than I can count.

But in the last two years or so, I have not been enjoying either the league, and especially the table itself. Pool should be played on nine foot tables, period, imo. I split first place money last night in a bar box 8 ball tourney, and that is fine. But I enjoyed the ring game on the nine footer more for sure.

My desire to play on bar boxes is officially over. Bars are for drinking, not playing pool. I no longer feel compared to bear down on bar tables, in the league, or even bar box tourneys.

Sorry for the mini rant, but I had to get it out. It's pool on a nine footer or nothing for me. Guess that means that my basement might have the only one in a few years the trend seems to be. Sad but true. I guess it's time to play more darts and/or frisby golf.

I have complete empathy for you.
Recently I have made a return to Snooker to compete and enjoy the big game on 12ft and having so much fun doing so.
I'll be travelling over 3000 miles next month for the SBE and I haven't registered to play as I too do not enjoy the BB table. It was a novelty for me and that has now gone.
RE; Bar Box - I understand that there is a commercial / business decision that makes a whole lot of sense. And for this reason, I will still support as many tournaments as I can. :thumbup:
However; there is a need for all players to test and improve their skills. IMO this can not be achieved on a BB table.