curving an object ball....

[Cornerman]

Mark,

Excellent video work, and nice shooting! That is definitely a convincing demonstration of post-rebound curve, which is what have been looking for. It is not even close to the amount of curve needed to satisfy the $2000 Bank Bend Challenge, but at least it clearly shows the bend in a convincing way. Again, excellent job!

FYI, soon, Bob and I plan to create a simplified and slightly-easier version of the challenge along with a video demonstrating how to document attempts. I hope you will participate. Bob and I will still be offering $2000 for the first person who can bend the bank the required amount. Originally, Bob's challenge required one to curve around an obstacle more than half the width of an obstacle ball (plus any clearance). The new version of the challenge will only require a bend around 1" of an obstacle (less than half a ball)! This might sound easy, but it is still a lot more curve than you have demonstrated; although, it might be possible with the right shot, favorable conditions, and a perfect hit. And if nobody is able to grab the $2000 prize by beating the challenge, we will have a consolation prize of $200 for the person who is able to bend the ball the most (i.e., more than anybody else). This will be paid even if nobody succeeds at the $2000 challenge. Bob and I will post detailed rules and provide a detailed video demonstration of how to document attempts. We hope to have this ready within a week or so. People working on the challenge should probably wait before creating and posting final videos so their attempts will qualify for the new challenge.

Again, great job. I hope you are able to fine tune the angle to the rail, cut angle, ball distances, and hit (speed, tip position, and cue elevation) to get even more curve. Good luck with the new and easier version of the challenge. We will release it as soon as it is ready. I look forward to seeing how much more you can bend the ball.

Catch you later,
Dave

Are you going to change the wording on your site?

"Bank Shot Bend Challenge

Is it possible to bend a bank shot back (i.e., curve the OB's post-rebound path in the short direction)?

The short answer is: Not really. "


That would be pretty awful if you didn't change the wording. Because the answer, as it was with Brumback's video, is a resounding YES. Then you could ask about how much bend is possible after acknowledgement of that initial answer without changing scope.

Freddie <~~~ it would have been that simple

 

[elvicash]

Please. Just stop with this argument. LOL
I've supported my local pool rooms for over 25 years by being a regular customer.
Should I have done more for pool to be able to criticize in this thread?


So only people who add money to pool events out of their pocket for the love of the game or pool promoters are the true pool heroes?
They are the only ones who have valid opinions?

In that case, let me get out my checkbook. Who do I make it out to?

Yeah, right! LOL
Keep dreaming.

My question is how do I put someone on ignore?

 

[SUPERSTAR]

My question is how do I put someone on ignore?

Bye bye! :grin:

 

[pool101]

Didn't happen. Your camera was moving or should have been moving. You touched the 4-ball with your finger, so you introduced a variable. You didn't show the entire room. You're width measuring thingy isn't calibrated, nor is it proven that the edges are parallel....

Great job, btw. 3m22s shows why it curves. The ball does hop and turns in air. The axis rotates, so now we have standard Coriolis.

Freddie <~~~ it was just as ridiculous to type it!

It looks to me like the 5 ball is accelerating (spinning faster then it is moving) on a tilted axes, which would cause the curve. Is that what you see? And how does the pool ball at speed turn in the air?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Yes shot both like a million times playing one pocket. The way I stated is how play them and made countless times. Maybe I don't have a stroke like you do but that's how I have to play them. The one on the right, if object ball was further out I would use right. Being that close to the rail though for me I I used right it would hit around side pocket or so. I usually hit that close to top pocket and a straighten out on a tight line back to my pocket.

The one on the right is only a ball a half from the side rail. If you use left side spin on the cue ball and consequently get right side spin on the object ball, I don't see how you're going to get it back to your pocket. Have you tried the shot in the exact position shown?

 

[Cornerman]

It looks to me like the 5 ball is accelerating (spinning faster then it is moving) on a tilted axes, which would cause the curve. Is that what you see? And how does the pool ball at speed turn in the air?

I think torque makes the axis turn.

There some downward vector from the cushion nose, not inline with the cueball rebound angle, so there's a Corilois effect.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the "largeness" of the effect is directly dependent on 2 things.

The angle of the initial bank.
How far after coming off the rail, the object ball "breaks", grabs, masses, touches down from being airborne, etc etc.

The closer to the rail after a bank a shift in trajectory occurs, the more significance that shift might have on the trajectory.
A quarter inch shift isn't that big of a deal if it happens 2 inches from the pocket, but would have a significantly greater impact on trajectory, if it happens 2 inches after hitting the rail, even if the trajectory after that shift is a straight line. Let alone if the ball is still hooking slightly.

I still don't understand why it is even an issue.
Why is a measured example necessary?

Other than to try and discredit a professional who has been more than generous with his knowledge, what purpose does that actually serve?

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[pool101]

Mark,

Excellent video work, and nice shooting! That is definitely a convincing demonstration of post-rebound curve, which is what have been looking for. It is not even close to the amount of curve needed to satisfy the $2000 Bank Bend Challenge, but at least it clearly shows the bend in a convincing way. Again, excellent job!

FYI, soon, Bob and I plan to create a simplified and slightly-easier version of the challenge along with a video demonstrating how to document attempts. I hope you will participate. Bob and I will still be offering $2000 for the first person who can bend the bank the required amount. Originally, Bob's challenge required one to curve around an obstacle more than half the width of an obstacle ball (plus any clearance). The new version of the challenge will only require a bend around 1" of an obstacle (less than half a ball)! This might sound easy, but it is still a lot more curve than you have demonstrated; although, it might be possible with the right shot, favorable conditions, and a perfect hit. And if nobody is able to grab the $2000 prize by beating the challenge, we will have a consolation prize of $200 for the person who is able to bend the ball the most (i.e., more than anybody else). This will be paid even if nobody succeeds at the $2000 challenge. Bob and I will post detailed rules and provide a detailed video demonstration of how to document attempts. We hope to have this ready within a week or so. People working on the challenge should probably wait before creating and posting final videos so their attempts will qualify for the new challenge.

Again, great job. I hope you are able to fine tune the angle to the rail, cut angle, ball distances, and hit (speed, tip position, and cue elevation) to get even more curve. Good luck with the new and easier version of the challenge. We will release it as soon as it is ready. I look forward to seeing how much more you can bend the ball.

Catch you later,
Dave

Good luck! I did my part. The ball curves about 1/2 a pocket or it would hit the tit. Also notice that the ball hits before the rail ball by quite a bit so more curve is indicated. If you take hop out of the shot it be less curve, but there is still curve after landing. It also appears at 3:22 to have forward spin on the ball as in acceleration, I wish I had better cameras but it is what it is.
Mark

 

[ENGLISH!]

You keep saying this over and over, that science killed the teaching. First, there hasn't been any fancy science, just more videos and requests for videos of balls curving. That's what JB posted in the first place. And he agreed that his video was ambiguous and said he would try again. Second, JB was not going to teach how to bank or curve on AZ. He has videos that he sells and he gives paid lessons. If people want to learn how to bank, they should pay JB, not expect him to post his lessons for free.

How do YOU know what John was going to do or would do or would be willing to 'teach' or talk about?

I'll just stop there. I did not know that you were his Mama & in charge of him.

Best Wishes.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Here is the setup in the following video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeeKEudvx8g
Here is the video, Bob a check or money order will be fine. PM me for the address..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkRs_m2Br3c I do not have Johns stroke or knowledge but I believe you can see from the set up that the ball is curving, almost to center of the pocket on a couple of shots. Also note that the ball hits the rail well ahead of the blocker on the rail, which means there is more curve to the ball than just enough to make it in the pocket.
Mark

One more thing, in the videos I posted earlier in this thread, I was using the wrong stroke. I went back and watched Johns DVD and figured out my mistake, I called John and discussed it with him and this is the result. It is in how you stroke the ball that results in the correct action..
Also the correct method is available for less than $500 on Johns Bank pool secrets DVD..

Thanks for taking the time to try the shot and do the video.

The ball very clearly curves.

Your check is in the mail. :wink:

Can you estimate how much the bend actually was? That is, if you put a ball on the banking rail where the object ball left (a little to the left of the first blocking ball) and a ball by the pocket where the ball went in (which I think can be judged pretty accurately), and put your straight edge between them, how much overlap is there for the middle blocking ball? Here is a diagram:



I'm just asking for a best estimate. I hope the marks are still on the table.

As for the $500 for teaching me how, I suppose the point is moot now since I saw from your video exactly how it is done. Thanks. :grin: I at least owe you a steak dinner. Maybe I should buy John one also. I'll put the $500 into the One-Inch Bent Bank Prize.

As Dave mentioned, there is a consolation prize for best effort and so far you are in first place even lacking the (fussy, bureaucratic, science-guy) documentation.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Here is the setup in the following video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeeKEudvx8g
Here is the video, Bob a check or money order will be fine. PM me for the address..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkRs_m2Br3c I do not have Johns stroke or knowledge but I believe you can see from the set up that the ball is curving, almost to center of the pocket on a couple of shots. Also note that the ball hits the rail well ahead of the blocker on the rail, which means there is more curve to the ball than just enough to make it in the pocket.
Mark

One more thing, in the videos I posted earlier in this thread, I was using the wrong stroke. I went back and watched Johns DVD and figured out my mistake, I called John and discussed it with him and this is the result. It is in how you stroke the ball that results in the correct action..
Also the correct method is available for less than $500 on Johns Bank pool secrets DVD..

PAY the MAN! $2,500. PAY the MAN!

Oh... wait... he did not use pegs.

Never Mind.

You deserve the money or maybe split it with Mr. Brumback.

Nice going!

 

[Bob Jewett]

PAY the MAN! $2,500. PAY the MAN! ...

Please try to be a little less obnoxious.

 

[ENGLISH!]

"Willie, give him the stake. You got yourself a pool player"............... :thumbup:

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[ENGLISH!]

I think we're all agreed that it was an admirable effort from Pool 101 and the object ball certainly does appear to curve slightly. All of which begs the question of why he didn't stick to the challenge's criteria of a one-inch baton and peg markers?

Adherence to the rules might have earned him $2,000 by now.

Edit.

I'd dearly love to have tilt at the prize on a snooker table, I believe I might be in with a squeak at the money.

Because that was a suckers 'bet' as I have explained multiple times.

But he did it very nearly exactly as required.

PAY THE MAN!

 

[ENGLISH!]

No one is getting 2K.
That would never happen IMO.
There would be some technicality to paying it off.
This didn't happen, that didn't happen.
The stars didn't align, etc etc.

This video CLEARLY demonstrates curve swerve non straight trajectories.
Doubt he's gonna get any jelly for that cause he made it look too easy. LOL

Tell the truth. People with no character renege.

If Bob Jewett is a man of character he PAYS THE MAN.

And the same for Dr. Dave.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I never counted on getting paid, which is why I did not set up per Bobs challenge. I did however prove that you can curve an object ball, which was the point of this thread. It is much like curving a bowling ball, and it is the how you hit it that makes the magic.
Bob I can send you the raw footage if you want it.

Mark

Nice Job!

You deserve to be PAID!

 

[pool101]

Thanks for taking the time to try the shot and do the video.

The ball very clearly curves.

Your check is in the mail. :wink:

Can you estimate how much the bend actually was? That is, if you put a ball on the banking rail where the object ball left (a little to the left of the first blocking ball) and a ball by the pocket where the ball went in (which I think can be judged pretty accurately), and put your straight edge between them, how much overlap is there for the middle blocking ball? Here is a diagram:

View attachment 417154

I'm just asking for a best estimate. I hope the marks are still on the table.

As for the $500 for teaching me how, I suppose the point is moot now since I saw from your video exactly how it is done. Thanks. :grin: I at least owe you a steak dinner. Maybe I should buy John one also. I'll put the $500 into the One-Inch Bent Bank Prize.

As Dave mentioned, there is a consolation prize for best effort and so far you are in first place even lacking the (fussy, bureaucratic, science-guy) documentation.

The donuts are still down but the cameras are moved , and I will see if I can get the measurments tomorrow.
Mark

 

[ENGLISH!]

These videos show the high inside spin I posted about earlier. It helps the turn as it grabs the cloth, like the cue ball in a follow stroke.

You can also bank around balls with topspin by getting a little hop off of the rail. The ball slides over to a clear angle before the top spin on it grabs the cloth. This is probably the real point of contention in this thread. People are debating two different strokes.

The banked ball seems to want to curve when I use inside spin on the bank more, but it will still curve with a center hit.

Best,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I said way back when why can't you have two things working at one time.

The speed is important so that they both can work. One is not so speed sensitive. While the other is.

The bottom line is that it does not matter as long as the ball pockets.

Only the 'science guys' want to know what proportion of what effect was responsible.

Best to Ya,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

Didn't happen. Your camera was moving or should have been moving. You touched the 4-ball with your finger, so you introduced a variable. You didn't show the entire room. You're width measuring thingy isn't calibrated, nor is it proven that the edges are parallel....

Great job, btw. 3m22s shows why it curves. The ball does hop and turns in air. The axis rotates, so now we have standard Coriolis.

Freddie <~~~ it was just as ridiculous to type it!

Hi Freddie,

Don't you know that Green Ink is used to represents sarcasm?

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

PS The man should get paid or it shows a lack of Character by others.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I think it's more like bar pool. Somebody was asked to show curve, so he does. But, it can't end like that in bar pool. Somebody always has to make up technicalities and stipulations until the player just gives up and walks out the door. In the end, you have a bunch of useless, unrelated stipulations, and no decent players in the house to play.

We call them, "bar rules." It fits.

Freddie <~~~ disgusted with the invention of bar rules.

------------:thumbup2:--------------

The man should be paid or it shows a lack of character by others.