The last two events are in now. You may want to check out the thread I just started with ratings for your players.
Vegas BCAPL 2016, fargorate problems
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The last two events are in now. You may want to check out the thread I just started with ratings for your players.
While we are at it -- I'm curious how I'm even rated. I do play in an in house BCAPL league but that's about it. I haven't seen a change in robustness for any of us in the league so I'm very curious where this data came from.
I'm sure these questions are getting a bit tedious but what's one more gonna hurt?
Chris White
Stevensville, MI
I'm sure these questions are getting a bit tedious but what's one more gonna hurt?
Chris White
Stevensville, MI
Yes, your in-house league, where we have games through 1-19-16. And then 5-O'Clock Monday & Friday league from last year. Getting past league data in is not automated--So it may happen and it may not. And if it does it tends to come in in clumps.
Well the Texas State tournament has started. I am in the camp saying that would have been better to feed games into the system for a year.
This does not have as much of an effect on the teams as it does on the singles. There are unrated players who are getting huge spots from players they at least play even with. Some of the 7-3 races are just plain crazy. Known players are greatly penalized in the singles format when playing someone with a 525 rating or a very small number of games.
It may not make as big of a difference for the pros, but lots of amateurs may be quite a bit better in 8 ball than they are in 9 ball or 10 ball. The opposite could also be true.
This does not have as much of an effect on the teams as it does on the singles. There are unrated players who are getting huge spots from players they at least play even with. Some of the 7-3 races are just plain crazy. Known players are greatly penalized in the singles format when playing someone with a 525 rating or a very small number of games.
It may not make as big of a difference for the pros, but lots of amateurs may be quite a bit better in 8 ball than they are in 9 ball or 10 ball. The opposite could also be true.
Not sure why they don't raise the starter ratings? The system should adjust
I'm seeing a lot of those complaints from the Texas state tourney as well.
It is my opinion that there should be little to no spot in the top division of any state tourney.
Just my 2 cents.
Short Bus Russ
Funny you say that. They have two divisions for the guys. A "B" division and then the Open/Advanced division. In the Open/Advanced, the races go from 3 to 7! Some of the unknown players being based on Fargo ratings are causing a lot of increased blood pressure
I didn't realize they were also using these ratings to handicap these events. I don't like the sound of that at all. I don't think it's even necessary since this isn't even expected by the players. I think players would be more than content just being in the appropriate division. Handicapping on top of that seems like overkill.
BCAPL and Fargo
The BCAPL will be using FargoRate to determine which division a player/teams participates.
It will NOT be used to handicap (spot games) within that division.
We do have a lot of information on a lot of players. But more data is always better. We will be monitoring any extreme performance - but using the Fargo system will still be better than the methods used in previous years.
It only gets better with time. And this year league and team play will be also tracked when determining a players rating. New apps will be ready near the start of a new season year (June 1st) that will take a ll league team play and 'dump' it into the Fargo database.
People don't like change. This is a huge step forward in players being able to compete against similarly skilled players. Fargo can be used to determine what's 'fair match' would be between two rated players. BCAPL is not handicapping players in our nationals.
You will be in one of four divisions (bronze, silver, gold, platinum) based upon your ratings. Your base rating was taken from the division you had played in previous years (open, advanced, master etc) - so Fargo has to be more accurate than previous years.
Give it a chance. The players with fewer games will be identified much faster with Fargo than previous methods.
Mark Griffin
The BCAPL will be using FargoRate to determine which division a player/teams participates.
It will NOT be used to handicap (spot games) within that division.
We do have a lot of information on a lot of players. But more data is always better. We will be monitoring any extreme performance - but using the Fargo system will still be better than the methods used in previous years.
It only gets better with time. And this year league and team play will be also tracked when determining a players rating. New apps will be ready near the start of a new season year (June 1st) that will take a ll league team play and 'dump' it into the Fargo database.
People don't like change. This is a huge step forward in players being able to compete against similarly skilled players. Fargo can be used to determine what's 'fair match' would be between two rated players. BCAPL is not handicapping players in our nationals.
You will be in one of four divisions (bronze, silver, gold, platinum) based upon your ratings. Your base rating was taken from the division you had played in previous years (open, advanced, master etc) - so Fargo has to be more accurate than previous years.
Give it a chance. The players with fewer games will be identified much faster with Fargo than previous methods.
Mark Griffin
I think Fargo Rate is the best thing to happen to pool in quite some time. I think it's great CSI is getting behind this.
It sounds like they will NOT be handicapping races at the national event but for some reason it sounds like the Texas event is.
It sounds like they will NOT be handicapping races at the national event but for some reason it sounds like the Texas event is.
So will the team below rob the lower div? Will the unrated players adjust during team matches even with only a handful of games?
700
700
525 (unrated)
525 (unrated)
525 (unrated)
Will the scores from all BCA leagues be put into the system?
I feel that the 8 ball league format will need a large number of games to become accurate because you are only playing one game against each opponent. The variance can be huge in the format. This applies to State and National tournaments as well.
The results would give a more accurate rating from singles matches because you are playing longer races against one opponent. That is a better indicator of your skill level relative to theirs.
What about BCA 9 ball leagues in which spots are given and received?
Hey Mark
First off I always appreciate when you come on and answer questions and concerns of players.
One thing I dont understand is why the LOs are not involved. Every player going to nationals is supposed to play their time in a local league and be registered at nationals from that league.
Why not have the league operators just look at the unrated or anyone with 25-40 points of the starter ratings on players that are going to nationals.
It would take very little time and while it would be an arbitrary number it would help get things closer much faster.
I like this system and think it can work especially over time. It just seems like it would be easier for the LOs or a top player in their league to notice someone is 100 points off.
Someone had to be first, Bad Boys at BCAPL Texas got the short straw!
Seriously, I commend them for going ahead and doing it the first year out the gate - sure they are going to get a lot of flack for it b/c it's still new and there are some kinks to be worked out, but someone had to go first. I presume this event is dif races because there is not enough players to hold separate divisions.
Bad Boys is always good at learning from things and the Texas BCAPL State tourney will be even better next year using the Fargo Ratings (esp with more stats in the system).
It doesn't matter that games are played one at a time against an opponent in league. When you play 20 games against a single established opponent (like in a race to 11 match with a score of 11-9), there is a certain amount of information. If you instead play 20 single games against 20 different established opponents, there is essentially the same amount of information
In other words, you don't need statistically relevant information against each opponent; you just need it in the aggregate.
We don't take game information for 9-ball games that have ball spots.
Thank you for the replies. I feel like I am still missing something.
I will use an extreme example using the one game per opponent format. Let's say that I play 20 different players who are all rated 650 and I am a starter 525. In the 8 ball format, in one night you either break 2 or 3 times. I get two breaks per night and my opponents get three. They break and run 12 times and I break and run 8. I only won 40% of the games. Say I got more breaks and I won games 12 via break and run. Would my rating change based on winning 40% or 60%?
I would think that our skill levels should be the same because every game was won by break and run. The only difference is who got to break more often.
I feel like if you have a race then you have equal opportunities whereas in the one game format the number of breaks you get per round can make a big difference when playing other strong players.
I'd guess that would cause a lot more complaints and problems. I think subjective judgments are exactly what they're trying to get away from.
It is not that I disagree with you Frank. It is just that I think we should be clear that what you describe is exactly the old system, where league operators can become involved with whether a player is appropriate for Leisure, Open, Advanced, etc. That part just hasn't changed.
If you are saying league operators have never been involved enough, then you might have a valid criticism. But it would not be a new criticism that stems from introducing Fargo Ratings.