Good points. It is like asking for a cut of the room owners profits because spectators are coming there to watch and have food/drink but the room owner is adding the money so the players do get a part of the profits in the end on a tournament.
Streaming Players & Problems
- Thread starter Fast Lenny
- Start date
Good points. It is like asking for a cut of the room owners profits because spectators are coming there to watch and have food/drink but the room owner is adding the money so the players do get a part of the profits in the end on a tournament.
I handle streaming and don't do all the work that Desiree and Oscar do with running events but I can tell you for the hours put in they don't make a fortune and it probably equates to minimum wage. I do know behind the scenes stuff and you have lots of things happening before, during and after an event with countless people involved.
A promoter has to work the deal with host rooms/casino to get some added money, then work deals with sponsors and then satisfy the sponsor with value to keep them. You have to promote on social media and get the word out which is hours of time before the event. You have to setup and are the first one there and last one out the door. You have to deal with complaints from players and you will get cry babies in every tournament.
You have to deal with your travel cost and players looking for perks to come play the event whether its free rooms, entries, food/drink and so on. Depending on the scale like say CSI and Derby you are talking all the vendors you have to deal with, room kickback percentages, tournament director, referees, a crew like BadBoys to set up and tear down who do a great job. You have your media such as photographers and live streaming.
You have lots of money going out and risk so you should have some reward. If I have $20,000 in cost upfront monies and I make a few thousand I deserve it for the risk I took just like the players who risk there money to travel and play. The players don't always win the money and take a loss and sometimes promoters do too.
I know I am leaving much out which others can add to who have done stuff so maybe Mark Griffin, Ozzy, Greg Sullivan, Oscar and Desiree or Jay Helfert can chime in but trust me the good promoters out there and people who run tours earn the little money they might make in proportion to the scale of the work in an event for pros.
The amateur side of it all is what truly makes money and if the pros all stopped playing the recreational guys out there playing leagues and in the poolrooms would just continue on. I would like to see the pros make big dollars but the money just isn't there and with pool it might never be.
My suggestion to some players is to clean up their act and get together so they can put on their own events, control the video content. Random drug testing for stuff other then marijuana and don't dress like slobs. I think if you are a professional then dress the part, it doesn't have to be a suit but a nice collared shirts and pants (not jeans) with shoes would be nice or maybe go the golf look which is a mix of sport and dress.
Well enough rambling out of me for now. Time to get out and play some pool.
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Can someone please tell me who Shane Winters is? I've honestly never heard of him. I thought he was an old character on the Walking Dead or something.
I heard the name before but really only started hearing a buzz about him after he sent Robb Saez to the hospital. :sorry:
I bet that video would get tons of views on a youtube channel.
Lol. Lenny here's another solution - pay everyone the actual percentage once you do the math. Cut checks for the real amounts...$.03, $.02, $0.00001. Probably costs more to store and show this conversation on AZ than all the money made from free streaming of a sport no one watches except other pool players.
No offense Shane is not a real pro on most people's book. A real boxer maybe! If a tournament promoter has an event streamed, then Winters can refuse to play.
If somebody in the middle of an event refuses to be streamed that's fine..seen it done many times. If they make it to the end, they can play with a Zorro mask.
What does it matter?
No one is watching anyway. No one is making any money from the stream. Who cares then if the player doesn't play?
Or maybe there is a little money and some fans watching. If so then I think the players should get money and it should be laid out how much up front. The streamers know how much sponsorship dollars they are getting. Tell the players how much they are getting out of that and if the player signs up for the tournament with the knowledge that it is being streamed and they are required to play on the stream for xxxx amount or forfeit then that is a choice they made.
Lenny just told you sometimes he's upside down on jobs, and barely covers costs otherwise. It's a labor of love man, don't pester guys like this about getting your friggin $3.50 check or you'll probably make him quit and then there's no stream at all.
I believe Lenny is up front with how much he makes. I believe he tries to do the right thing for all. Others not so much and bottom line is I think there is money and the players are not seeing any of it from some.
You make a good point.
If players aren't making enough Money, get a job. There are lots of sports where the professional works and supports his passion via his or her full time income, get a JOB!I
I Drag Race with no sponsor and no guaranteed out come. I break something every other race, it aint cheap, but I LOVE it, so I work to support it.
If players aren't making enough Money, get a job. There are lots of sports where the professional works and supports his passion via his or her full time income, get a JOB!I
I Drag Race with no sponsor and no guaranteed out come. I break something every other race, it aint cheap, but I LOVE it, so I work to support it.
He plays good.
I dont know him well, we have talked on a few occasions, seems like a regular guy, but if he thinks he should be paid for pool because he's on the stream, he's wrong.
I dont know him well, we have talked on a few occasions, seems like a regular guy, but if he thinks he should be paid for pool because he's on the stream, he's wrong.
If a streamer thinks he should be paid for streaming the pros without paying them then he is wrong.
Maybe the streamers who are not willing to pay should just stream an amateur league event to satisfy their labor of love.
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Exactly something that Lenny does. He sits there all week at events streaming amateur matches, morning through night, commenting on matches and working the cameras and such. I hope they start paying him enough where he can afford to keep doing it and to maintain his equipment. He provides a valuable service for us few pool fans.
Shame that there are some "pros" who want to suck it dry, all hundreds of dollars worth of money for all the "pros" to divide. Enough to maybe buy a small beer, or a piece of chalk.
Now I gotta go start another "what makes a pro" thread.
I agree with you totally. With players like Shane Winters I really don't know how he could justify not playing unless there's stream money. That unless they streamed the altercation with him and his self proclaimed 'brother' Rob Saez. If I knew he was getting a cut of a stream playing pool id be sure not to purchase that tournament. A ppv with a 1 on 1 type situation would be different but how could you ever in a million years pay a tournament field of players a cut of revenue when they don't make anything.
You lose guys like Lenny, doing this for peanuts for the love of the game guys like winters should be over the moon to get the exposure so people actually know who he is, maybe build a brand for himself.
Lenny, you do a great job with your stream quality and commentary. If I'm going to donate money it's to guys like you and not whiney players refusing to play unless they get paid.
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That was, I believe, one of Winters' points. He feels he is losing his anonymity by playing on a stream.
Gideon