What Type of Cueist Are You & Why Do You Think Your Way is Best?

philly said:
The thread went south at post 1. English you are the ultimate troll and victim. I never understood how someone could enjoy being a victim. You speak of other forum members needing psychological help and that is the ultimate projection. Haven't you realized that there are problems in every thread you are involved in?
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Do you realize that you have never posted anything but trolling posts at me.

Your post here is ludicrous.

I am not a victim because I will not allow the forum bullies to make me one.

This thread was a simple thread to offer food for thought & make the point that there is more than one method available.

You appear to me to be nothing but a 'butt hurt' individual & I can not recall when it was that I was the cause of that for you.

That is unless you have a 'split personality' & sometimes go by another name or are the child of another or something or have a pool god that you think I have offended.

Best Wishes for You & Yours.
 
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Straightpool_99 said:
No matter what kind of stroke you use, there is something everyone should try, the 4 points of contact stance (you can modify it for pool, by bending both legs, if you are tall). Once you learn how to use this, it makes playing consistently so much easier, it feels like cheating. It helps straighten any kind of stroke, because you instantly feel the cue going off line and the contact points also prevent this from happening. Sorry if this is off topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rBe54E4rbE
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Even if off topic this is a gold nugget. :thumbup:

A short time ago I opened up my stance and liked the result. Now I am sold on the snooker stance. This morning I have been experimenting with the 4 points of contact after watching Barry Hawkins yesterday. Then I see this post and It reinforces the results I am getting. You can bet I will stay with the 4 points.:thumbup::thumbup:
 
gregcantrall said:
Even if off topic this is a gold nugget. :thumbup:

A short time ago I opened up my stance and liked the result. Now I am sold on the snooker stance. This morning I have been experimenting with the 4 points of contact after watching Barry Hawkins yesterday. Then I see this post and It reinforces the results I am getting. You can bet I will stay with the 4 points.:thumbup::thumbup:
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Are you using a FULL pendulum swing with it?

If so, could you explain how so?
 
ENGLISH! said:
It is not really off topic at all.

One can not keep/maintain a 4 point contact when using a full pendulum swing as the cue is rocking up & down, etc.

A very good player in my area actually has a 5 point contact in that his chin & nose are in contact with the cue.

Until rather recently I used a more square snooker type stance for 45 years, but without locking the knee & I have always been a low head player but never could get my chin on the cue & be comfortable enough to play.

Thanks for the post & the link.

Best 2 Ya.
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His nose and chin on the cue? That would be something to see.
 
Allen Brown said:
His nose and chin on the cue? That would be something to see.
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Mr. Martin can accomplish this I'm sure and still look across the linear playing field......:eek:
 

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336Robin said:
Sorry,
I was hoping to get the copyright on it! My bad.
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o man i'm real sorry, i was probably not realizing i was just being a bully like usual, i'll make it up to ya, ill let you in for half....but i keep the beanie side,you can have the rest lol

-bullyghost
 
Allen Brown said:
I was being serious. Thanks for explaining it for me. I'm just trying to learn a little something.
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Others have basically killed the thread as I saw Fran Crimi was viewing it but only very briefly as I seriously doubt that she wants any part of what it has been turned into. If you want to learn, pay attention to the things that She says.

I would suggest that you go back & read Fran's post & my post quoting her.

The thing is that the cue stick is a straight implement which we use the end of to move the ball. We do not use the side of it like a bat, golf club, tennis racket, etc.

Look at the link that SP99 provided about the four contact points. That is intended as a guide for the straight line movement of the cue.

That should be the goal... to move the cue stick on it's linear line & not swing it on an arc as we are not using the side like a bat, golf club, tennis racket, etc. to move the ball.

A piston moves straight as it is guided by the cylinder (4 contact points?).

CJ Wiley uses a heavy sword as a stroke training aid. He is not using it in a swinging motion but instead is using it in a stabbing motion. One thrusts or pushes when one stabs with a sword... or a spear.

In golf there are those that hit at the ball with the club & there are those that swing the club through the ball. Those that hit at the ball generally do not play as well as those that swing the club through the ball.

If you looked at me in my set position, you might say that I was going to use a pendulum stroke. Then if you looked at me when I hold my follow through you would know that I used nothing like a full pendulum swing.

Like Fran Crimi said different shots can be accomplished with different types of cue movement. Like CJ said, there is much power in the fingers & wrists. There are some shots that I shoot with nothing but my wrist & fingers.

Depending on the length of the stroke, my back stroke might look like a pendulum but when the length gets to a point where the feathering of the cue in my hand can no longer keep the cue moving in a straight line my elbow will drop so that the cue can continue to move in a straight line.

Then on the forward movement (pull) my elbow raises back up & then lowers (push) as the forward motion continues with the tip going straight through where the ball was sitting along with wrist action.

That is my old stroke before TOI. My stroke changed when experimenting with TOI in order to get the desired effect.

In every sport I can think of one wants to control the implement that they are using. That means a connection to the implement that allows one to control it. If it is just sitting loosely, then one can not control it. An athlete wants to have control & not take control away even if trying to limit 'bad control'. See that link provided by SP99 again.

Hawaiian says that his connection to the cue is probably more firm than most. That is what happened when I was experimenting with TOI vs the english that I was hitting with for almost every shot.

Players will tell you that 'grip firmness' makes differences.

I have said many times here that one's connection to the cue must fit the intended cue motion or... a particular connection to the cue will try to influence the motion. It must also fit the intended movement of the CB.

No one can really teach anyone anything. All one can do is give an individual cause or reason to think for themselves & then make there own determinations.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick
 
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Too many make the first part of the word assume out of themselves when they do that.

I did NOT say that his chin & nose were centered on top of the cue.

The cue runs from one side of his chin to the other side of his nose.

Best Wishes for ALL.
 
gregcantrall said:
Even if off topic this is a gold nugget. :thumbup:

A short time ago I opened up my stance and liked the result. Now I am sold on the snooker stance. This morning I have been experimenting with the 4 points of contact after watching Barry Hawkins yesterday. Then I see this post and It reinforces the results I am getting. You can bet I will stay with the 4 points.:thumbup::thumbup:
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learned this from Joel Weinstock and David Matlock in my late teens.....i'm about to be 32.....only time i ever stand sideways like a pool player is for the "open" breaks and when i have to jack up.

the problem with this tread.......is that its not teaching anyone anything really......just some random junk oh i do this....good for you.....

you know what makes the arm do what it does with any of the stroking actions???????

YOUR HAND..........if anyone wants to read a real thread wth some strong strong information....

go search for "more elbow dropping nonsense" its very long, many many knowledgeable players and coaches chipped in on that thread and its got to be from at least 5-6 years ago i think maybe older......apppppp no i lie its definately older i think because i think marcus and I did the fundamentals of pool part one and two with the greyghost after that....because people were on my balls about doing it, and i kindly obliged the population of poolland lol.

I even tried using a teleprompter but alas i'm not the bouncy ball reader like our current POTUS......so he said Keeb.....come on buddy, just talk.....ok Tarentino the you just ask me the right questions so i can flow. DEAL/DEAL

Still cant find part two :frown: its not true that things on the net stay there forever....at least not for me lol.

I still think i should have left my white shirt on......Marcus was laughing bawls because i was glowing and looked like an angel or something lol.

I also found it hilarious that so many wanted to see me shoot so bad, it drove them nuts watching those vids and they waited and waited lol.

Kind of like a student (virgin player) a while back asked me, are we going to play much? I said hell no, this is your first rodeo. you get to use open ears and pen and paper and thats about it besides asking a question...concepts first. lol

heres a playlist of my ill prepared spur of the moment thoughts, recomendations and breakdowns of a good pre shot routines components can consist of.

I also get into the hands, the stance (snooker inclined) with 4 other views...the audio isn't good or needed past the first 3 viids.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC-hd-zf5OHAUQ4-wHkjsnfNdlBIpbDb6

and watch this one too.....and listen.....very intently....then watch it again

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC-hd-zf5OHAGV536VLEmRgcXr_rlXItT

Soon if i can remember ill type that chicken scratch up and at least post it on a there here for yall.

No i didn't get in any fight like a few asked.....i was using a steel buffing wheel and when installing the snooker table at the school program and i wasn't paying proper attention and it rolled thetop of my hand and tried to paint the table red lol....lots of fun. I do apologize or my stuttering and seeming lack of ability to read....i am an excellent speaker, but when i write in print it looks like muhammed ali wrote the stuff. Had written it late one evening out on the platform and went to pool hall when i first got in to film. Close to half way on the main vid I start remembering what i had wrote and get more in verbal stroke.

If anyone has time and or knows someone that is good with video editing i have plenty of projects that need work done, would barter either tailored lessons or possibly a custom built item by myself. But you better be someone or have someone vouch for ya because no ones screwing me with my hard work and totally apechit schedule.

If anyone gives a hoot about my billiards program at Louisiana School for Math Science of the arts......the lone ranger could very well use some cloth, balls or whatever items one could spare. I can even send you act of donation paperwork so you can use it as a tax break.

Schools almost out and I have to get back up there to do more work and build the protective top for the snooker table as they rent the dorms out to various organizations during summer......and Marcus and his father and I dont work our asses off so others can piss on something were doing for others....some just dont care so I'm not risking it.....they can screw up the toy table 7 ft valleys if they want to be destructive lol. The elephant in the room is going to stay the elephant in the room lol.

Just stranges me out that years ago when I helped him do the program at the school in houston (pearland middle) seemed like the whole dam board helped out........ran it for long time, he left the school and if im not mistaken its a pe class now. My long term goal is to train a few faculty and make the area distance learning ready and eventually have it part of the cirriculum as a sports elective....which is 100% feasible as I took kempo, and fencing there. There are many non typical sports there, the normal sports they compete for Natchitoches Central.

I'm working on bringing the local school kids in to the program as well. That little town really showed me love back in the day supporting my pool playing and even helping me go to events and such.....like the one Grady put on in 04 that was the us open banks, they had 9 ball and its where Ray Martin grabbed me and taught me to play one pocket....to which i sprinted to Ms. Randi to pay like 400 bucks, and my sping chicken butt sleeping on the beach in my truck.....so humid they blsted the ac to freezing and i had this huge sweater this girl had given me, all ball fouls and i felt like i was at the dam tounament of champions with those ball fouling white sweaters they would have to wear lol....

back then Richie Richeson didnt sound like a dont smoke cigarettes PSA......

and I remember this taller heafty fellow i never seen or heard of or knew (it was all older and legends from what i remember i was the youngest then richie) he won i thinkthe 9 ball and his name "WILL PAY" lmfao

I stayed up till like 6 one of the nights and gambled with i cant even remember who and did ok.....got one hour of sleep or so and had to play Marco Marquez in the 9 ball in which i got really roasted.....i believe he got deported not long after that event lol.

I met my favorite player ever and he took a liking to this fellow lefty...
DAVID MATLOCK :) what a beautiful player man.........

months later Grady called me invited me to Eddie Taylors birthday, which would be his last.....sidepockets in Shreveport, i immideately got kicked out since i was 18 lol.......Grady and Randi got them to let me stay because obviously i was't there to drink. Got to see the legend himself snap off some golden ones, got a few pointers even.

Few months later i was living in tulsa, Ok and Eddie i think passed within about a half year of that bday.....

so if you like the greyghost and dig what ive always done on here and around and about.....please help in some how. My life could have turned out really really f'd up like many of us know all to well many players lives are, i was very very lucky to have some real good solid and smart people looking out for and helping me along my way.....i honestly have no idea where I would be today without all of those people, and even this forums members as well.

I dont know for certain if there will be another kid at that school with a little talent and passion for the game at all.....but i never got to play in junior nats because i had no idea, neither did my mom or dad.....i couldn't play college nats because no one at the school gave a dam.....just trying to make sure if theres a kid that wants it he/she can go after it and no just be left in the dark and have to do scary shit like I did and make my own road map.

People make me laugh when they say i must be fearless lol.....I've been plenty terrified plenty of times, it just never stopped me from trying or showing up.....fear is just proof that your human and what your doing is not a dream.

I dont care abou pro tours. I dont care about olympics. Never had kids of my own (yet) but i've never had qualms being around them, helping them or giving them a little advice, and not bullshitting them like so many do like they are stupid or something.

That schools tough man. You gotta move away from home pretty young i was there at 15.....your on your own just like college....and all my life when i had to work out my thoughts Ieither pounded out the miles on pavement or I would just run balls till i was lost in space and life seemed ok again.

Thats what beat me up so much over that fellow breaking my cue I made.....it was like my running shoes.....i dont run anymore, but still i always have a pair. I got faith in my feet that no matter what they can get me whereever i must or need to be, or even out of danger.

I remember too when all I had was a pair of running shoes and a cue, and I took care of that instrument, as for a time it was my livelyhood, my offense, my defense, my partner, my friend....my tool for making a living with my hands. Then days ago it felt like someone chopped off my left one......it was completely rickdickulous....dammit i better not make him famous with that name:sorry: lol

theres still plenty of magic in my wizard like ways.....cant wait to show yall eventually how Dr. Grey brings jen back to life.:wink:

i good you all bid evening,
-Greyghost
 
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What kind of stroke?? For earl s. Aka. The pearl.

He's. World champion. Coming to. Minnesota. This Friday. Jimmys pro , Columbia heights.mark
 
You are the Man!

greyghost said:
o man i'm real sorry, i was probably not realizing i was just being a bully like usual, i'll make it up to ya, ill let you in for half....but i keep the beanie side,you can have the rest lol

-bullyghost
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Awesome! I have a hat like that, belonged to my Grandfather, it runs in the family! We are a Hat Clan! I am forever in your debt!
 
The following is an except from a long post by greyghost (Red text) & an excerpt of a reply by ShootingArts (Blue text) from that linked long thread. It is on page 44, the 2nd. the last page. I think ShootingArts was an owner or manager of a research & development company.


Piston Stroke -mechanically more complex, and more involved conscious effort is needed to attain the same consistency found in the pendulum stroke.

Pendulum Stroke -when set up correctly the only thing required to perform is to pull the hand back and then throw it forward, whereupon the body does the rest for you. From proper tip placement in regards to the grip arm at contact with CB(90º), to a completed stroke IT'S ALL DONE FOR YOU, and a proper set up further ensures that the shooter can only have one result....THE CORRECT ONE.

Actually the pendulum stroke is quite complex and an unnatural function of our body. We attempt to hold everything down to our elbow stationary, allow our elbow to move, and then make small compensations in our wrist and grip so the cue stick itself doesn't move in an arc to match the arc of the pendulum stroke. When using the pendulum stroke is the only time we use our body in this manner. Even the very loose grip is an artificial act.

The strokes using the full arm use our body in the same manner we have been using it every day of our lives with each part of our body complimenting the rest of it in the same manner we make hundreds of movements every day.

The full arm strokes are very natural and constantly practiced movements while the pendulum is an unnatural movement that forces our body to perform tasks that we never ask of it at any other time. Both movements are very complex since the stationary elbow is held stationary not by any mechanical lock-up but the muscles in our shoulder, upper arm, torso, all the way down through our legs and toes. (some that help hold the shoulder stationary in it's position are the same that we use to stroke pendulum, major conflict!)

Ultimately we have two essentially equally complex strokes when all factors are considered. One is an extension of the natural movements we have been making all of our lives, one is totally alien and unique to itself. One stroke we have been preparing to perform since our first movements in the womb and mimics the way we move all day and even in our sleep, one stroke introduces something new that our bodies have never been asked to do before and that incorporates activities that we never duplicate in daily life. Simply walking we swing our arms from the shoulder in perfect harmony with the rest of our body to maintain balance. Try walking holding your elbows locked in one place and only swinging your arms from the elbows down. It can be done but it is anything but a natural movement! Basically we practice the mechanics of the full arm stroke every time we move. We practice the pendulum stroke . . . . . well, only when we practice the pendulum stroke!

It seems now days that many just lack plain old common sense & have to try to out smart Mather Nature... so they come up with some sort of a contrivance.

This thread was intended as food for thought & to point out that there is more than the one way that is the most 'advertised'.

Also, I am NOT the one that took this thread down it's detour.

Best Wishes to ALL.
 
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AtLarge said:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=174482
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Hmm...45 pages of Azb coaches claiming that the pendulum stroke is better than the stroke virtually every pro is using. Fantastic. It was nonsense then, and it is nonsense now, but it's good to see them all agree, I guess. I'm still waiting for the book "You're winning wrong!", but I guess it won't sell much unless it cracks the 70 buck barrier.
 
I aim close to the CB (a few mm) then I pull back as smoothly as possible and try to hit the CB where I first aimed at.

I don't know what a pendulum or piston is and I can't seem to understand from the descriptions. Is it wrong now? Am I doing it all wrong? I also don't know how to pull instead of push thru the CB :frown: :sorry:
 
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