Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.

[Blaine B.]

I am now 61 years old and primarily a bar box player but not afraid of the 4 1/2 X 9.
I played my best pool back in the late 80's with my best finish being a second place finish in a bar box tournament at the White Spot(now the politcally correct Right Spot) in Fife, WA. It was a race to 7 winner breaks with a 48 to 54 player field that included all of the best players from Seattle/Tacoma, Porland and all over the northwest. The field included Dan Louie, Rich Geiler and most likely Stan Tourangeau. I caught a good draw and took advantage. I did not know the fellow I played for the point but did know he had beaten Dan Louie to get there. He had me down 6-2 and I won 7-6 to secure the point. Then Jim Ward came from the losers bracket to crush me 13-4 in the single race final match.

Jim Ward from Canada?

 

[gregcantrall]

Jim Ward from Canada?

Was from Yakima, WA but I did hear he was in Canada.

 

[Blaine B.]

Was from Yakima, WA but I did hear he was in Canada.

Wow! That's JW, We call him Yoda around here. Few years ago everbody in the barbox tourney here nicknamed me the giant slayer for the night cause I ran him out two straight, my first ero in competition.

Mind if I pass that pic on to the local FB group?

 

[cleary]

Because that is what your practice strokes are for. You zero in on the precise spot, ensuring your tip goes to the exact spot on the cb each and every time.

You have just "told" your mind what you want to do, and how to do it. Now, you look at the ob because as the old adage that still applies here, "your hands follow your eyes" Looking at the ob and your hands will follow your lead.

Looking at the cb only is like shooting blindfolded imho.

The same could be said for the exact opposite though. Once you're lined up and pointing in a straight line to your target, the only thing that matters is to hit the cueball exactly where you wanted.

I can tell you from my experience, when I look at the object ball last, I don't hit the cueball where I wanted. I may as well be wearing a blindfold.

 

[gregcantrall]

Wow! That's JW, We call him Yoda around here. Few years ago everbody in the barbox tourney here nicknamed me the giant slayer for the night cause I ran him out two straight, my first ero in competition.

Mind if I pass that pic on to the local FB group?

No problem, I am pretty sure that was 1989.

We (my wife and myself) always like Jim and have the greatest respect for his game. Not sure if he would remember us but if you see him tell him hi from Greg and Jackie in Washington.

One story I like to tell on him:
At one of the White Spot tournaments (they held them twice a year). It was a players birthday and his friends hired a dancer to give him a dance at table 2, during the tournament. Jim was playing on table 3 when the girl came in and set a boom box on table 2 and started to dance and strip. Every person in the place had stopped and was watching, except for Jim. He continued to run the rack out and upon potting the 9 he looked up to see why his opponent was not racking. I had to laugh and told my wife, "that guy is a ROCK".

 

[Blaine B.]

No problem, I am pretty sure that was 1989.

We (my wife and myself) always like Jim and have the greatest respect for his game. Not sure if he would remember us but if you see him tell him hi from Greg and Jackie in Washington.

One story I like to tell on him:
At one of the White Spot tournaments (they held them twice a year). It was a players birthday and his friends hired a dancer to give him a dance at table 2, during the tournament. Jim was playing on table 3 when the girl came in and set a boom box on table 2 and started to dance and strip. Every person in the place had stopped and was watching, except for Jim. He continued to run the rack out and upon potting the 9 he looked up to see why his opponent was not racking. I had to laugh and told my wife, "that guy is a ROCK".

That's awesome. Thanks for sharing!

 

[gregcantrall]

There is a gentleman here in St. Louis who is a very accomplished player -- he has a *very* high 9ball gear. And, he advocates looking at the CB last.

A couple of years ago he said to me that he had heard that John Schmidt was of the same mind and also thought looking at the CB last was the way to go. Soooooo, I see John at the 14.1 Challenge at the DCC and go up up and ask him, "So, John, there's a guy in St. Louis that says you say players should look at the CB last." And John just kinda laughs and says, "Lou, you're a good enough player to know better."

Not saying it's not good for you, just sayin'.

Lou Figueroa

I know this is 3 1/2 years later but............John Schmidt was in our area a few weeks ago and gave lessons to several people. A couple of weeks ago my wife told me that her girl friend took a lesson and John taught cue ball last. Well since this was hearsay and there is always a large factor for misunderstanding given there were 3 exchanges before it got to my ears, I did not think it proof of anything. Perhaps he just stressed the importance of aiming at the cue ball. Perhaps she misunderstood him. Perhaps my wife misunderstood her.

Last night we were at our weekly $5 eight ball tournament, when my wife drug me over to another that had taken a lesson. She says to him, "Tell him what John says." He replied, "Cue ball." I said, "Huh? You mean cue ball last?" He replied, "Oh yea".

This player had been playing cue ball last before the lesson. Last night he was shooting better than I have ever seen. He plays as a B player in BCAPL. Last night he beat a couple of higher rated players to bring down 4th place in a very strong field. I got lucky:wink: to knock him out at 4th. This speaks to the value of lessons as much as or more than the value of cue ball last though.

 

[9intheside]

The same could be said for the exact opposite though. Once you're lined up and pointing in a straight line to your target, the only thing that matters is to hit the cueball exactly where you wanted.

I can tell you from my experience, when I look at the object ball last, I don't hit the cueball where I wanted. I may as well be wearing a blindfold.

This is how I have always felt. As long as you are on the correct shot line and hit the CB where you intend to. It should not matter if you have your eyes closed or are looking at the girl at the bar.

But I am just a banger so what do I know. :embarrassed2:

 

[Pidge]

Problem is, that when you focus and only look at the cue ball last, your eyes lose track of where the line of aim is, even more so on longer distances between both balls. So you might be dialed into hit where you're looking on the cue ball, but you dont deliver directly straight through the cue ball... It tends to kind of come in at a very slight angle, but enough to miss.

When looking at the object ball last you're eyes stay fixed on the line of aim and the angle the cue should be pulled back and strike through, but with the added benefit of the cue ball always being in your peripheral vision which helps massively with stopping the cue and body from straying away and messing with alignment.

I feel the best of both worlds can be achieved, though. A basic eye pattern of quiet eyes flicking between object ball and cue ball, then as you start the final pull back you focus on the object ball, then the eyes switch to object ball with a very brief back pause and strike the cue ball whilst looking at the object ball. I feel it encorporates the positives of both methods and doesn't bring along too many, if any negatives. The only negative I can see is if a person doesn't naturally do it, engraving a new eye pattern can take a long time and you will see a dip in form until it is entrained.

 

[Teacherman]

Where your eyes should be is easily determined.

Don't use any balls. Just bridge on the rail and stroke your cue stick over one of the diamonds on the table rail. What do you have to do to do that.

 

[cleary]

Problem is, that when you focus and only look at the cue ball last, your eyes lose track of where the line of aim is, even more so on longer distances between both balls. So you might be dialed into hit where you're looking on the cue ball, but you dont deliver directly straight through the cue ball... It tends to kind of come in at a very slight angle, but enough to miss.

The exact same could be said for looking at the object ball last. You're so dialed in on where to hit the object ball, you don't hit the cueball where you want. So the cueball deflects off angle, enough to miss.

Seriously, everyone is different. Both was are correct if it works for you.

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Pidge,

Are you an official instructor or just a pretty good player?

r/DCP

 

[BeiberLvr]

Pidge,

Are you an official instructor or just a pretty good player?

r/DCP

Playing wise (with what I've seen), I'd put him at or a little above any of the non-pros on this site.

Knowledge wise, top tier.

 

[gregcantrall]

Problem is, that when you focus and only look at the cue ball last, your eyes lose track of where the line of aim is, even more so on longer distances between both balls. So you might be dialed into hit where you're looking on the cue ball, but you dont deliver directly straight through the cue ball... It tends to kind of come in at a very slight angle, but enough to miss.

Snip..............

Your choice of pronouns is all that is wrong with this statement. Instead of "your eyes" you could say "my eyes", etc. I can understand how that is what you experience. It is not what I experience.:smile:

 

[KRJ]

The same could be said for the exact opposite though. Once you're lined up and pointing in a straight line to your target, the only thing that matters is to hit the cueball exactly where you wanted.

I can tell you from my experience, when I look at the object ball last, I don't hit the cueball where I wanted. I may as well be wearing a blindfold.

There are exceptions for everything. And if that works for you, have at it. Like Vince in color of money, we don't even need to look at either ball if you have a perfect stroke

But, yeah, on a med or long shot, I feel like I'm shooting in the dark if not looking at the object ball.... but some folks wired different, and this method may work best for them. Would never tell someone to change something that works.

 

[West Point 1987]

Darn it! This thread's got me trying stuff I really ought not to be trying...last night I broke/ran out to win my 8 Ball league match and never looked at the cue ball once. Just lined up above the shot, and once I was down, I looked only at the contact point on the OB...then after contact (confirming I hit the contact point precisely as planned), I followed the CB around the table with my eyes, staying down until the CB stopped. It was a really tough out, too. I was using TOI, but shot two spin shots, too. The frustrating thing is, I know this is not my best/most consistent method, but if I believed what I was doing, I'd always do it. Don't know why I did it, and I'm not advocating it, but it was kind of strange...especially since I was experimenting in competition. Sometimes that's good, but not really fair to my team mates if/when it doesn't work out!

Okay, that was two years ago...took me a long time to go back and find my original post. About a year ago, I decided what the heck, let's give this a real try, not just dip my toe in. I've been going CB last since and I'm with Greg on this. It by far is the most consistent and effective PSR for me. It really assumes that you know how to align and aim properly to begin with. My shot making went up big time and my control is twice as good. Night and day improvement for my game, when I'd plateau'd for a long time. I'm a convert. :wink:

 

[AtLarge]

Pidge,

Are you an official instructor or just a pretty good player?

r/DCP

Two years ago, Pidge was looking for help with his straight-pool game. Seems he had upped his high run from 271 to 303 but was disappointed he hadn't been able to beat the 303 in the ensuing 6 months.

So, yes, he's a "pretty good player."

 

[gregcantrall]

Okay, that was two years ago...took me a long time to go back and find my original post. About a year ago, I decided what the heck, let's give this a real try, not just dip my toe in. I've been going CB last since and I'm with Greg on this. It by far is the most consistent and effective PSR for me. It really assumes that you know how to align and aim properly to begin with. My shot making went up big time and my control is twice as good. Night and day improvement for my game, when I'd plateau'd for a long time. I'm a convert. :wink:

I agree, it is one element of the "whole shot routine" for me. Which consists of a few critical elements. My mistakes can all be traced back to a flaw in one of those elements.
Hope it has made the game more fun for you as it has me.:thumbup::thumbup:

 

[magicrat69210]

i dont know how to explain it.....i guess i focus on the cue all more....but i do look at the object ball too....i kinda look at both but my focus is mostly on cue ball.....and i shoot pretty straight

 

[gregcantrall]

Amway Women's 2016

From the semi-finals of the Amway Women's 2016. Here is a link to a great view of the eye pattern on a break shot, of Han Yu.
I just noticed this one view and was not watching the match closely. This is some great camera work and the match could potentially have more views of the eyes as they shoot.
https://youtu.be/lDsxIBMkuXw?t=4830