I've been trying to look at the cueball when striking it lately.
I really like the results, will keep it that way for a while at least.
I really like the results, will keep it that way for a while at least.
Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.
- Thread starter gregcantrall
- Start date
Hi Sam, if you have read this thread from the beginning, you should notice the prejudice against cue ball last in some circles. I have found lately that a couple of players that I really had respect for their game also play cue ball last. Most that do, do not talk about it. I have found that people that I mention it to try to direct me to a cure.
For cue ball last to work for me, I must find a very precise focus on the point I intend to hit and the path of the tip through that point. I could not make it work with the quick eye shift McManus uses.
My aiming of the object ball follows what Johnny Archer describes and is done as I stand facing the shot. I then shift my stance and maintain the aim line as if I were going to shoot the shot one handed. When I place my bridge I am still setting the line of the aim. Looking to give myself a stable shooting platform much like a sniper. I then follow a routine of sighting the line down the cue and through the shot. I pause at the back and shift my focus to the cue ball on the final stroke.
I actually tried this
i only play at home on my own table
usually alone,I had never heard of anyone who did not look at the object ball
in fact i bend over and look almost exclusively at the object ball
not back and forth
when i started looking at the object ball i was surprised to see it and where i was trying to hit it
when i watched
the cue hit low ,my draw was powerful easy
my hi also was noticeably better
plus i was 100% more relaxed,followed through etc
pocketed balls about the same but when
i missed a few,i got to distrusting my new method
so now i can't decide which to look at but i do notice the place on the cue ball more
and i think it is helping me
but ,i am not a good player so don't follow my lead
but i am glad i tried this
i only play at home on my own table
usually alone,I had never heard of anyone who did not look at the object ball
in fact i bend over and look almost exclusively at the object ball
not back and forth
when i started looking at the object ball i was surprised to see it and where i was trying to hit it
when i watched
the cue hit low ,my draw was powerful easy
my hi also was noticeably better
plus i was 100% more relaxed,followed through etc
pocketed balls about the same but when
i missed a few,i got to distrusting my new method
so now i can't decide which to look at but i do notice the place on the cue ball more
and i think it is helping me
but ,i am not a good player so don't follow my lead
but i am glad i tried this
If you don't look at the cue ball, how do you know where you are hitting it?
I know where I hit the object ball because I have it in my field of vision as well, but it doesn't have my main attention until I have struck the cue ball first.
I know where I hit the object ball because I have it in my field of vision as well, but it doesn't have my main attention until I have struck the cue ball first.
He's looking at the object ball on this shot when his cue contacts the cueball (8:43 mark).
He also got his nuts drilled in by a guy that very clearly looks at the OB last. Even on his first long red, his eyes are fixated on the OB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvu7Y25gCfc
Funny this thread pops up again today. I've been struggling to run racks lately. Been missing shots and position. I think a lot of that is simply that I just had my pockets tightened from 5 inches down to 4.25 inches.
So today I noticed on a particular shot I focused on the CB last and it came off just fine. Then I focused on the CB a few more times. Everything seemed to start to come back together - just a little bit.
Not sure what my eye pattern was, but like I have always said.....when I focus intently on the CB last I make shots and play better. Having said that Nick Varner didn't really like me looking at the CB last but he did say if that's how you have always done it to stay that way.
r/Mike
So today I noticed on a particular shot I focused on the CB last and it came off just fine. Then I focused on the CB a few more times. Everything seemed to start to come back together - just a little bit.
Not sure what my eye pattern was, but like I have always said.....when I focus intently on the CB last I make shots and play better. Having said that Nick Varner didn't really like me looking at the CB last but he did say if that's how you have always done it to stay that way.
r/Mike
At the 9:00 mark is a slowmo replay of the shot from another angle that clearly shows his eye pattern. I see his eyes shifting quickly to the cue ball then not lifting till after contact.
This is immediately before contact with the cueball, and his eyes have already moved up to look at the object ball:
Attachments
Ok
His eyes shift to the cue ball as he starts the forward stroke and back the object ball......just before contact?
I don't think there is a "right" way or a "wrong" way.
If you do whatever you planned on doing, keep it up.
I think I do both, depending upon the shot and distance and my body position while in the shot. I usually have both the cue ball and the object ball in my vision on most shots. I may be focusing on one for a split second and then switch my eyes to the other. I think the key is not moving your head or your stroke line if you switch from one to the other once your stroke is moving.
If you do whatever you planned on doing, keep it up.
I think I do both, depending upon the shot and distance and my body position while in the shot. I usually have both the cue ball and the object ball in my vision on most shots. I may be focusing on one for a split second and then switch my eyes to the other. I think the key is not moving your head or your stroke line if you switch from one to the other once your stroke is moving.
Agreed. The important thing IMHO is to do the same thing with your eyes every time.
My eye focus switches to the OB ball on my final stroke at the set position. Others do this at the end of their backstroke.
There are shots though where I focus totally on the CB.
The key is consistency.
My eye focus switches to the OB ball on my final stroke at the set position. Others do this at the end of their backstroke.
There are shots though where I focus totally on the CB.
The key is consistency.
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^^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^ is true of everything in this game. A consistent PSR, a consistent repeatable stroke. This is only the basis though.
Once you develop this solid basis, then it is about putting in time to develop muscle memory in every arena from cue placement on the cue ball to shotmaking and formulating a data file base if you will, of cue placements & shots that you can recall later.
Lastly it's mental. Once you have developed solid fundamentals & put in the time to develop muscle memory & a "file base" then it's just developing the trust to put your conscious mind to bed & letting your subconscious play the game, trusting in its ability to pull up the correct "file" and executing it, this is done simply by visualizing what you want so your subconscious can pull & execute said "file".
No aiming systems, no CTE, no TOI, no cueball or object ball last, no what the Fack ever, just this. Have you ever seen a player practically run around a table running a rack? This is how they do it. They have solid fundamentals, have put in the time to develop the files & lastly the mental toughness & wherewithal to just let go, get out of their own way and let their subconscious play. Sometimes this is referred to as dead stroke or being in the zone. I call it getting out of your own way.
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I'm not sure at what point in his warmup he looks to the cueball, but he does look up again at the object ball before contact with the cueball.
Always fun to dig up old posts and see what's been said. I'm pretty sure I replied to this a while back with CJ and said that it doesn't matter where your eyes go as long as you're lined up properly and stroke straight.
I've had numerous players try to get me to switch to looking at the OB before contact but I get absolutely no benefit from it. I'll pay attention while I'm playing today to see if I move my eyes at all before making contact.
I've had numerous players try to get me to switch to looking at the OB before contact but I get absolutely no benefit from it. I'll pay attention while I'm playing today to see if I move my eyes at all before making contact.
It is true that if you are aligned correctly and stroke perfectly straight, you could close your eyes and still make the shot.
I think that since I have difficulty striking the cueball where I want precisely, looking at the cueball helps me achieve a more accurate striking point. I don't feel looking at the object ball helps me for anything other than initial alignment.
When I was confirming & experimenting with much of what CJ said when he was here, I made the switch to looking that the CB while making the stroke.
Success was inconsistent. I had much more success looking at the OB while making the forward stroke when using TOI.
What CJ said about seeing where the OB goes into the pocket can be valuable feedback just as seeing the actual collision between the CB & OB & how they depart one another is.
Except for the occasional 'odd' shot, I have looked at the OB while making both the back & forward stroke for nearly 50 years & I have never missed the CB with the tip & I have shot many many maximum english shots & have also almost never miscued. Some might say, yeah, but did you hit the cue ball where you intended. Well my success of shots made & position says yes. The balls do not lie.
All that said, if looking at the OB during the stroke works better for anyone, then that is what they should do.
What I say here is JUST food for thought.
All Best Wishes for You & ALL.
Rick
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