Shaft Materials

Skratch

Skratch

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Since there's been some recent discussions about LD Shafts, I'm posting this request for comments on the shaft material itself. Most are made of Hard Maple. I've seem one made of purpleheart, carbon fiber, fiberglass, etc. What is everyone's opinion on the material their shaft is constructed with? Is there a better material that we can use and why? Pros,Cons.
 
for ld shaft i think it really is how low is the deflection not the material of the shaft
 
There are no LD shafts made of purpleheart and fiberglass afaik.
World titles and perfect games have been played on maple shafts.
 
I have seen a dymondwood LD shaft. Evan Lunda plays with one. I have also seen an ebony shaft.

I prefer maple.
 
Skratch said:
Since there's been some recent discussions about LD Shafts, I'm posting this request for comments on the shaft material itself. Most are made of Hard Maple. I've seem one made of purpleheart, carbon fiber, fiberglass, etc. What is everyone's opinion on the material their shaft is constructed with? Is there a better material that we can use and why? Pros,Cons.
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I would like to correct my statement. It doesnt have to only be LD built shafts, I mean all shafts. What woods are best or better? Is there a good alternative to wood shafts (ie: fiberglass, carbon fiber, aluminum, etc) I dont just mean LD shafts.
 
My opinions on most common shaft materials

Purpleheart: Heavy, stiff and hard-hitting with a high pitch sound. Perfect for Break/jump applications. IMO not so good for playing, but can be used, obviously. I tried a playing shaft made of purpleheart. To me it felt kind of dead.

Hornbeam: Somewhat less stiff than purpleheart. Used in carom cues, mostly cheaper ones. Reminiscent of maple, but IMO not as good as the higher grades of maple. Has a stronger spine.

Maple: Everyone knows how maple hits, right?

Ash: A shaftwood material with some drawbacks, but can be worth it. Mostly used in snooker cues. Ash needs to be covered by an oil finish, in cheaper cues laquer can be used (but is terrible). Without the finish, it will snag your beard (painfully). Also it has prominent, black grain, which some find ugly. The black color comes from "grain filler". The natural state of the wood has grain only slightly darker than the rest of the wood.The grain is harder than the rest of the wood and wears slower, which can become a problem, but only in extremely old cues.

Ash has a softer, lower toned hit than maple and can feel more springy. The lower grades of ash cues are complete garbage (as sold by for instance Riley). They feel dead, soft and will often warp. But the higher, selected grades of ash feel wonderful and give a degree of finesse that IMO surpasses that of maple. After having played with my quality ash cue, using a maple one is always somewhat of a let-down...It's like going from a brand new Moori tip to one that is in the later stage of it's life.

Pearwood: Used in some, older English billiards cues. A wonderful, smooth and soft hitting wood with a lovely golden colour. Not sure if it's any good for pool cues. If you want a high pitched "ping", this is not the material for you, obviously.

Maple cored fiberglass: Lots of world championships have been won with these, and they actually hit acceptable, when compared with the very cheapest and worst of the maple cues. They have a muted, lower pitched hit than maple. The issues are mainly friction and durability. They need to be treated with specialized cleaning agents to remain slick, and once you get a dent, it's there to stay. Nothing you can do to get it out. Sanding is out of the question.

Graphite: Plasticky and with lots of vibrations. Never tried one I found even remotely acceptable. Cannot be sanded/repaired. Avoid.

Aluminium: Tried one, and didn't like it one bit. Very funny feel that is hard to compare to wood. If you wish to know how it would feel like to play pool with a cue made of lots of beer cans, glued together, then this is the material for you.
 
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This makes me wonder what all kinds of wood have been tried for shafts.
 
I can on talk about carbon composite shafts. They can be tuned to be almost any deflection range you want it to be, from being quite LD to being as deflective as you prefer. They can also be weighted to the balance of choice to within reason. With the right prep they can be quite a smooth feel. They can be damaged as easily as a wood shaft if they are abused. I think Predator are exaggerating the dent resistance of their carbon shafts. Just because they are a composite, does not make them immune to slight warping, in the range of 0.1 to 0.4mm of warpage of the shaft. I like the play of carbon shafts and especially the jump cues from carbon composites.
Neil
 
conetip said:
I can on talk about carbon composite shafts. They can be tuned to be almost any deflection range you want it to be, from being quite LD to being as deflective as you prefer. They can also be weighted to the balance of choice to within reason. With the right prep they can be quite a smooth feel. They can be damaged as easily as a wood shaft if they are abused. I think Predator are exaggerating the dent resistance of their carbon shafts. Just because they are a composite, does not make them immune to slight warping, in the range of 0.1 to 0.4mm of warpage of the shaft. I like the play of carbon shafts and especially the jump cues from carbon composites.
Neil
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Neil,

How many Predator made carbon composite shafts have you seen with dents? How many have you seen with warpage of .4mm? It would interesting if this is a study, or are you throwing unfounded lies out there to make yourself look intelligent.

Unless you have actually done the inspection how could you know?

Cocoa
 
Nice breakdown of these materials. Which would you prefer if you couldn't use the Maple?
 
The issues I have with non-wood shaft materials is keeping them smooth. You cant sand some of these materials down. ie. Fiberglass. Any damage is almost at the unrepairable state, and you'd have to buy another to get a replacement.
 
I also try to find shafts that have tight grains, I feel these are denser and less springy thank those with looser grains. What do you think?
 
Straightpool_99 said:
For pool break/jump: Purpleheart
For pool: Hornbeam
For carom: Hornbeam
For snooker Ash (which I prefer anyway)
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Do you also follow the respective profile? Like Carom cues are mostly constant taper. I like maple and hornbeam, but I wonder if theres not a better alternative. Maybe even cheaper with better performance/maintenance.
 
Skratch said:
Do you also follow the respective profile? Like Carom cues are mostly constant taper. I like maple and hornbeam, but I wonder if theres not a better alternative. Maybe even cheaper with better performance/maintenance.
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I've mentioned all the materials I have experience with and their qualities. That is not to say there are not other possible ones:

Beech: Relatively cheap and reasonable to work with
Oak: Stiff and hard to work with but widely available. Should be decent
Hickory: Extremely stiff and hard. Good luck to the madman who tries this, and God have mercy on his tools. JK. If you want heavy, stiff and tough, this is the wood to try.
Tropical hardwoods (various): Expensive and impractical. Some are decent candidates if they were not as expensive. Their weight is usually a problem, though.
 
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Straightpool_99 said:
I've mentioned all the materials I have experience with and their qualities. That is not to say there are not other possible ones:

Beech: Relatively cheap and reasonable to work with
Oak: Stiff and hard to work with but widely available. Should be decent
Hickory: Extremely stiff and hard. Good luck to the madman who tries this, and God have mercy on his tools. JK. If you want heavy, stiff and tough, this is the wood to try.
Tropical hardwoods (various): Expensive and impractical. Some are decent candidates if they were not as expensive. Their weight is usually a problem, though.
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Yeah, the issue I see is that the hardwoods, because they are dense it makes them heavy. On the flip side, the less dense ones are too whippy. You'd need a stiffer profile to compensate. I was thinking of having a hybrid shaft made. With the proper profile, I think it would be a good shaft. Thanks for your comments.
 
I currently have some Persimmon, Ash, Pecan, and Hackberry in the process of drying.
When it gets dried out I'd like to experiment with having some shafts made out of these woods
just to see what they would be like.
 
Skratch said:
Yeah, the issue I see is that the hardwoods, because they are dense it makes them heavy. On the flip side, the less dense ones are too whippy. You'd need a stiffer profile to compensate. I was thinking of having a hybrid shaft made. With the proper profile, I think it would be a good shaft. Thanks for your comments.
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There are many ways to achieve what you want from a cue. Making a shaft out of an exotic material, or in a very elaborate costly fashion will not always guarantee that the results will be good.

In the end I think you'll find that hornbeam and maple (or maybe ash) will perform better than most other materials in a pool cue application. You could always core such a shaft with carbon (for stiffness), or balsa (for ld qualities). The traditional materials are plenty stiff for a pool cue shaft.

Lots of people think that the stiffer and denser a wood is, the better it's playing qualities. I don't always agree. By that logic, purpleheart should be a better playing wood than maple, but it just isn't, not by a long shot. Heavy, dense woods give a different feedback and aren't as springy. Shaft should have a certain minimum of "springiness" to them (IMO). This is important for delicate little spin shots etc..

I hope you get the intended result from your shaft creation, but I also hope you realize that the traditional materials are used for good reasons. You can get plenty of performance by tweaking tapers, ferrule materials and joint pins. I recently found out that I could get a lot better feel from my ld shaft by changing ferrules to a different material. I also realized that I want a conical taper and a certain tip diameter on my cues, so I'm having a shaft made to my specs. I feel confident in getting a good performance out of this combo.

Good luck to you.
 
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