Todays equilizer? And a fix? Fast cloth

[Wybrook]

Slow cloth makes the game so much easier.
-You never lose your rock
-first ball on combos never "gets away"
-draw shots are easier with increased friction
-hard to overshoot position
-if you are going 19 rails for shape, you need to work on your shape

Simonis made the game much better and more consistent

I remember Mike Sigel saying he wanted slow cloth like the old days of better players and strokes ....wah, wah, wah...

So Kevin Trudeau had Gorina make that crap azz cloth for the IPT.. That stuff was so slow and so crappy that everyone hated it. I played on it every day and it was super inconsistent. In fact, I lost one match in Vegas because the CB tracked off so badly on the table you couldn't shoot a shot slower than medium.

I hear Mike later saying (after playing on the new slow cloth) "Why can't we have the cloth like whats at Clicks?"

He's such a moron... Clicks has Simonis 860. He doesn't even know what he is playing on..

 

[nick serdula]

Fast cloth. No hard shots.

I said and mean no hard shots. If you can play. Yes that sounds right what you say except for that!
No hard shots. Put a player running over 200 on slow cloth and he might get 70. He might not.
Sounds way easier to me?
Well it is. Just tell the guy not running 300 ever again.
I am sure he will agree with you.
You see he likes running the 300 and not throwing his back out at 70.
Nick

 

[john coloccia]

I said and mean no hard shots. If you can play. Yes that sounds right what you say except for that!
No hard shots. Put a player running over 200 on slow cloth and he might get 70. He might not.
Sounds way easier to me?
Well it is. Just tell the guy not running 300 ever again.
I am sure he will agree with you.
You see he likes running the 300 and not throwing his back out at 70.
Nick

if you're throwing your back out playing pool on any cloth, don"t know what to tell you.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

I said and mean no hard shots. If you can play. Yes that sounds right what you say except for that!
No hard shots. Put a player running over 200 on slow cloth and he might get 70. He might not.
Sounds way easier to me?
Well it is. Just tell the guy not running 300 ever again.
I am sure he will agree with you.
You see he likes running the 300 and not throwing his back out at 70.
Nick

How many people's are running 200 and 300s that often?

 

[Straightpool_99]

How many people's are running 200 and 300s that often?

Nobody, thats who!

But you know they could. It's just soooo easy to play straight pool. Any 9 ball player could beat Mosconis record, but they choose not to because there isn't any money in it. It has to be true, they all say so.

It's common knowledge that nobody could play in the Old days. Mosconi would be a C-player today. He couldn't play precisely at all. You can tell that from looking at old pictures and video from when he was in his 80s. Any APA player would beat him, except maybe a "2". It's just that the equipment was sooooo easy. Anybody can run 300 on slow cloth on a 10 footer. True, back in those days people actually made a good living at the game and the results were in the newspapers etc. and tons of people played it. But people were clumsy and weak in the old days, and retarded as well. Most people couldn't even hold on to the cue. They just dropped it on the floor over and over. They had people working in the pool hall that only picked up cues and helped sweep up the drool from the floor, that was their whole job. Besides the players had useless Rambow and Balabushka cues without any carbon fiber ferrules and layered tips. Nobody can play with those, it's just impossible. The house cues were Titlists for crying out loud! Can you even believe it? They were "full splice", lol. What a joke! No fiberglass house cues with screw-on tips!

Thank God we live in the age of excellence, where every C-player is better than Mosconi. But you know, I'm a bit of a sucker...I really would like to see a 300 ball run on a 10 footer with 4.5 inch pockets, even with the slow cloth...Yes, I know, I know...A mundane accomplishment for sure, and I know most of you prefer to watch a player use 30 minutes to run 2 racks of 9 ball, but I kind of have obscure interests..

 

[HawaiianEye]

Nobody, thats who!

But you know they could. It's just soooo easy to play straight pool. Any 9 ball player could beat Mosconis record, but they choose not to because there isn't any money in it. It has to be true, they all say so.

It's common knowledge that nobody could play in the Old days. Mosconi would be a C-player today. He couldn't play precisely at all. You can tell that from looking at old pictures and video from when he was in his 80s. Any APA player would beat him, except maybe a "2". It's just that the equipment was sooooo easy. Anybody can run 300 on slow cloth on a 10 footer. True, back in those days people actually made a good living at the game and the results were in the newspapers etc. and tons of people played it. But people were clumsy and weak in the old days, and retarded as well. Most people couldn't even hold on to the cue. They just dropped it on the floor over and over. They had people working in the pool hall that only picked up cues and helped sweep up the drool from the floor, that was their whole job. Besides the players had useless Rambow and Balabushka cues without any carbon fiber ferrules and layered tips. Nobody can play with those, it's just impossible. The house cues were Titlists for crying out loud! Can you even believe it? No fiberglass house cues with screw-on tips!

Thank God we live in the age of excellence, where every C-player is better than Mosconi. But you know, I'm a bit of a sucker...I really would like to see a 300 ball run on a 10 footer with 4.5 inch pockets, even with the slow cloth...Yes, I know, I know...A mundane accomplishment for sure, and I know most of you prefer to watch a player use 30 minutes to run 2 racks of 9 ball, but I kind of have obscure interests..

Mosconi was a chump! He would be the laughing stock of the league if he played today. How dare he show up with a Rambow and not a Predator with a carbon shaft. Probably wouldn't even be smart enough to rob a car wash before he came for some quarters to put in the table. One of those APA 4 or 5 players would take him for all he had.

 

[nick serdula]

News flash

Slow cloth makes the game so much easier.
-You never lose your rock
-first ball on combos never "gets away"
-draw shots are easier with increased friction
-hard to overshoot position
-if you are going 19 rails for shape, you need to work on your shape

Simonis made the game much better and more consistent

I remember Mike Sigel saying he wanted slow cloth like the old days of better players and strokes ....wah, wah, wah...

So Kevin Trudeau had Gorina make that crap azz cloth for the IPT.. That stuff was so slow and so crappy that everyone hated it. I played on it every day and it was super inconsistent. In fact, I lost one match in Vegas because the CB tracked off so badly on the table you couldn't shoot a shot slower than medium.

I hear Mike later saying (after playing on the new slow cloth) "Why can't we have the cloth like whats at Clicks?"

He's such a moron... Clicks has Simonis 860. He doesn't even know what he is playing on..

You ever played on a big table with slow cloth?
Because that is one bass ackwords set of reasons you just listed.
All that happens is this.
You have to hit it.
You have to hit it hard enough to reach the hole.
The rock goes bye bye and the table will not let you just bounce it back to you.
Nothing further than an inch or two taps in.
Long shots take a brutally accurate swing.
Nothing half speed is good for anything except busting your stroke.
Bigger pockets?
How about harder shims.
Anything fast spits out but anything slow will not get there.
Leave a ball in the hole playing one hole and it isn't coming out.
Can't fade that.
But hay the game is faster. Early TV screwed that up.
Grady Mathews almost spit when someone yelled out in the player meeting if you want to speed the game out play one shot foul.
Roll out would be death on fast cloth.
Everything goes.
Nick Serdula

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

You ever played on a big table with slow cloth?
Because that is one bass ackwords set of reasons you just listed.
All that happens is this.
You have to hit it.
You have to hit it hard enough to reach the hole.
The rock goes bye bye and the table will not let you just bounce it back to you.
Nothing further than an inch or two taps in.
Long shots take a brutally accurate swing.
Nothing half speed is good for anything except busting your stroke.
Bigger pockets?
How about harder shims.
Anything fast spits out but anything slow will not get there.
Leave a ball in the hole playing one hole and it isn't coming out.
Can't fade that.
But hay the game is faster. Early TV screwed that up.
Grady Mathews almost spit when someone yelled out in the player meeting if you want to speed the game out play one shot foul.
Roll out would be death on fast cloth.
Everything goes.
Nick Serdula

I play on three sets of tables. All 4.5x9s. Old Brunswick tables with slow cloth and 4 3/4" pockets. New Gold Crown 4 with 860 and 4 3/4" pockets. And Diamond tables with 760 and 4 1/4" pockets.

Any idea which table plays the toughest? Hint - it isn't the first table with the buckets and slug cloth. Bangers get out on that table.

Actually, your preferred table setup favours a shot making banger.....is that what you are?

 

[Wybrook]

You ever played on a big table with slow cloth?
Because that is one bass ackwords set of reasons you just listed.
All that happens is this.
You have to hit it.
You have to hit it hard enough to reach the hole.
The rock goes bye bye and the table will not let you just bounce it back to you.
Nothing further than an inch or two taps in.
Long shots take a brutally accurate swing.
Nothing half speed is good for anything except busting your stroke.
Bigger pockets?
How about harder shims.
Anything fast spits out but anything slow will not get there.
Leave a ball in the hole playing one hole and it isn't coming out.
Can't fade that.
But hay the game is faster. Early TV screwed that up.
Grady Mathews almost spit when someone yelled out in the player meeting if you want to speed the game out play one shot foul.
Roll out would be death on fast cloth.
Everything goes.
Nick Serdula

Are you serious?
Ive played every game, on every set of conditions known to man...

Slow cloth is the easiest. (I think pool is easy so maybe my point of view is invalid)

 

[Straightpool_99]

I play on three sets of tables. All 4.5x9s. Old Brunswick tables with slow cloth and 4 3/4" pockets. New Gold Crown 4 with 860 and 4 3/4" pockets. And Diamond tables with 760 and 4 1/4" pockets.

Any idea which table plays the toughest? Hint - it isn't the first table with the buckets and slug cloth. Bangers get out on that table.

Actually, your preferred table setup favours a shot making banger.....is that what you are?

Size...it matters. I'd like to see your so-called bangers get out on the 10 footer (the slow cloth will add to the problems posed by table size). Listen to what Earl has to say. He's actually semi-rational here (but went completely loco in the match, lol).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-vxN7gq2rY

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

You never hear golfers complain about how fast the greens are at the US Open. Or when they change the rules on clubs. They just adapt. You don't hear soccer players complain that the grass on the away field is a different grass, or different length than their home field. Hockey players don't complain when the ice is softer (yes, ice can have varying consistencies) at a visiting rink. They just play the game.

I am only a casual golf fan and only watch the 4 majors but I've heard players complain many times about fast greens at the U.S. Open. I've heard them complain about fairway conditions (balls hitting rocks) at the British Open, the tall rough and "moon surface" greens at the British Open and any other thing they want to complain about.

10 minutes of Googling will disprove all of your other points. I've heard NHL players complain about the ice, golfers complaining about belly putters being banned (and other rule changes) and many other pro athletes complain about conditions. Sure, they "just play the game", they're making millions.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I am only a casual golf fan and only watch the 4 majors but I've heard players complain many times about fast greens at the U.S. Open. I've heard them complain about fairway conditions (balls hitting rocks) at the British Open, the tall rough and "moon surface" greens at the British Open and any other thing they want to complain about.

10 minutes of Googling will disprove all of your other points. I've heard NHL players complain about the ice, golfers complaining about belly putters being banned (and other rule changes) and many other pro athletes complain about conditions. Sure, they "just play the game", they're making millions.

If it's on the internet....it must be true.

Do you hear golfers complain about where they placed the sand traps? Yep, a bad lie happens every so often. I really have yet to hear any of them go on and on about it.

Pucks take weird bounces off the boards all the time. Some game winning goals have happened because of them. You'll usually hear a comment about "bad bounce" or "weird bounce", and the conversation is done. Golfers have to play on different conditions every week. No two courses are the same. Hockey players play in arenas that are different. The ice surface is the exact same size. But the boards and glass can be different heights from rink to rink, the lighting is different, etc. Football - some indoor stadiums, some outdoor stadiums. And, heaven forbid.....there's weather.

Every other professional sport has to deal with some form of randomness and adversity. Yet pool players want to whine about smoother, truer cloth ruining the game. Dennis, you may be able to find an isolated story on Google about the golfer who complained about hitting a rock at the British Open. With 1000 pro golfers, and 100+ events per year, you're bound to find one or two. Hockey - 82 game season, and 30 teams. 2460 regular season games, not including playoffs. Per year. Times 23 players per roster. 56,580 individual opportunities to complain about anything related to equipment. Sticks, pucks, pads, boards, glass, ice, etc. 99.99% of the comments after the game will refer to how they played. There won't be an excuse offered about how shitty the stick was that broke on them.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

, but I kind of have obscure interests..

you and me both,and I prefer it like this say for the fact that i can't get anyone to play the games I like

I can sit and watch 2 guys run 400 and out each in straight rail and enjoy every point,

Something that where they still play that game is even boring to them there

 

[TCo]

Fast cloth is the reason Willie whats-his-name’s record for the one old game where you don’t make all the balls but then break again, record has been broken. Fast cloth, yup great point.

14.1 is much different on fast cloth than slow, break outs, etc but fast is a benefit for both skillful and skill-less players yet the skillful still win AND a 50ish year old record stands.

Snarky, self-important comments like “your smug and pompous comments make me laugh” (pot meet kettle) or from another thread “I’ve audited more businesses than you’ve…” is what makes “outsiders” stay away. It’s the smug and self-important people that think they and ONLY they know what is best that have flown it into the ground. You reap what you sow.

IF the “auditor” stopped 2 seconds to think about why a business is audited, perhaps could come to a realization about Pool. You audit so that an outsider can review what you’re doing, point out faults and hopefully improve your business.

The metaphor: Sometimes it takes an outsider to tell you a picture that you look at every day is crooked.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

You never hear golfers complain about how fast the greens are at the US Open. Or when they change the rules on clubs. They just adapt. You don't hear soccer players complain that the grass on the away field is a different grass, or different length than their home field. Hockey players don't complain when the ice is softer (yes, ice can have varying consistencies) at a visiting rink. They just play the game.

I am only a casual golf fan and only watch the 4 majors but I've heard players complain many times about fast greens at the U.S. Open. I've heard them complain about fairway conditions (balls hitting rocks) at the British Open, the tall rough and "moon surface" greens at the British Open and any other thing they want to complain about.

10 minutes of Googling will disprove all of your other points. I've heard NHL players complain about the ice, golfers complaining about belly putters being banned (and other rule changes) and many other pro athletes complain about conditions. Sure, they "just play the game", they're making millions.

If it's on the internet....it must be true.This seems to be the path you wish everyone to take with your posts.

Do you hear golfers complain about where they placed the sand traps? Yep, a bad lie happens every so often. I really have yet to hear any of them go on and on about it.

Pucks take weird bounces off the boards all the time. Some game winning goals have happened because of them. You'll usually hear a comment about "bad bounce" or "weird bounce", and the conversation is done. Golfers have to play on different conditions every week. No two courses are the same. Hockey players play in arenas that are different. The ice surface is the exact same size. But the boards and glass can be different heights from rink to rink, the lighting is different, etc. Football - some indoor stadiums, some outdoor stadiums. And, heaven forbid.....there's weather.

Every other professional sport has to deal with some form of randomness and adversity. Yet pool players want to whine about smoother, truer cloth ruining the game. Dennis, you may be able to find an isolated story on Google about the golfer who complained about hitting a rock at the British Open. With 1000 pro golfers, and 100+ events per year, you're bound to find one or two. Hockey - 82 game season, and 30 teams. 2460 regular season games, not including playoffs. Per year. Times 23 players per roster. 56,580 individual opportunities to complain about anything related to equipment. Sticks, pucks, pads, boards, glass, ice, etc. 99.99% of the comments after the game will refer to how they played. There won't be an excuse offered about how shitty the stick was that broke on them.

You made an absolute all-encompassing statement. All absolutely correct all-encompassing statements do not have exceptions. If they have even one exception they are no longer correct.

I didn't even mention the bad bounces the NBA players complained about on the old parquet floor at the Boston Garden or the smallest ice surface in the NHL in Boston.

The things I said I heard are things I heard or read. I only mentioned Google because there are so many more examples there.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

RKC..I'm sure it would much better serve you, to confine your opinions to your field of expertice (ie; table mechanic-ing).. When you try to speak from a player's perspective, regarding the differences in actual playing situations, you are woefully ill-equipped!..Sorry, but most 'C' players, can describe them much more accurately than you ever have!

Actually he was spot on

KMRUNOUT