What is a Professional?

Kevin3824

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What is a professional?
From what I have seen most definitions of a professional indicate you are a professional when you make your primary living by doing something. I realize that definitions of words can change over time based upon how a culture uses the words. I know that when a person asks me what I do for a living I would reply with the position that I make the most money (take home) from if I had more than one source of income.
With that being said then only probably the top players in the United States are making enough money to support themselves and maybe a small family if they are really high up on that list. There is simply not enough money in tournament prizes to the individuals to make a decent living after expenses.

Now even some of the “Open” events with larger prizes want to limit players to only participating in their events or worse yet imposing penalty fines upon player who simply may not be making enough to support the trip from one tournament to the next. With all this talk about contracts for players where is the talk about sponsorship and monetary compensation? If the US Open did not beef up the prize money this year they would not have been attractive to players overseas.

There are a lot of different amateur pool leagues and league based tournaments across this country. Most of which will kick you out if they determine you play pool at a level higher than an amateur. Granted there are some special types of leagues like the TAP X league or maybe the UPA that will work with higher skill level players. It seems to me that these amateur pool leagues have different skill standards based upon the local players where a person plays pool as well. Basically a person might be deemed to have professional skills in Nome, Alaska and that same person might be a few levels lower with the same skill set if they were playing in Chicago, IL. I have heard stories over the years of skilled players going to national level amateur tournaments and being disqualified for putting together a large package of 6 or 8 racks. Then when they got home they were kicked out of their league entirely as they were deemed to be professional.

By those kind of standards it is possible for a person to play pool at home. Practice and improve their game through watching the internet, dvds, books, drills and maybe even private instruction or coaching. Then one day go out and join a local bar league only to find they get disqualified for being too good at the game. Even though they never made a dime from it, won a tournament, or were handicapped or rated prior to that. On top of that they may have a hard time qualifying for pro tournaments as they have no history of winning amateur tournaments.

Granted, most players will never attain those kind of skills. Many will not even aspire to. Some people only play pool to pass time while out with friends hanging out relaxing and having a few drinks.
 
Many will not even aspire to. Some people only play pool to pass time while out with friends hanging out relaxing and having a few drinks.

Over 90% of pool players fall into this category.

Of the other 10%, only a few will stick with it and put in the time to play at a really high gear. Once you reach that gear, what is the motive to stay there in today's pool world?

I don't know of anybody that is making a really decent living out of it. At least, not a living like owning a house, a car, being able to take vacations, having a medical plan, insurance, etc.

It is like when I lived in the Philippines. My salary in US dollars was higher than President Marcos' salary in US dollars. Of course, he wound up with billions in illegally gained money, but I actually made more than he did legally by being President. I could live as well as the President did. You can be the World Champion of Pool and not make as much as a taxi driver. What do you have, besides a title?
 
Kevin, you make several good points. The discussion of what an actual " pro " pool player has been going on here and everywhere else for years. Your description is spot on imo, however if you applied that to reality there would be what like 10-20 pros total lol? Then here in the US we have all these " pro " tourneys ( a lot are called opens ) where no one needs to qualify - just plop down your entry and get to it ( which btw I don't really have a problem with ) but that ultimately blurs the lines even more as to what is a pro. While probably not the best system in the world, what I do personally and a lot of other folks determine who is a " pro " by what speed they are. Once again not perfect because can be very subjective but we are usually pretty spot on as far as the assessment goes. You could liken it to the old Supreme Court ruling in regards to pornography. Where the justice says basically I can't define it but I know it when I see it ". Lol, but that's what I'm basically trying to say.

Now as to the leagues - you are quite right again my friend. I think most of what you speak of is caused by a handful of cry babies that are scared. They just don't play good enough. They may or may not be the big dick in their local little bar, then when's someone comes along that they know they have no prayer of beating and know their nuts are gonna get chopped off they make a stink for a couple of reasons. One their ego is gonna get hurt, and two it might effect the $300 they get at end of session were they to win everything ( and now scared they won't because of the new guy lol ) The standards that the leagues use are all over the place too. Such as " earned money in a pro event " , well that brings us back to the earlier question of what's a pro event ? ??? I guess Ifor they were gonna be technical about it they would say " any money earned in any tourney that was not league based " but then that would disqualify so many league players they won't ever do that because they want their weekly dues lol. I would guess at this point any type of compensated sponsorship would do it but they are pretty few and far between. From my experience it is totally on a case by case scenario and even differs from league to league. If enough people cry then that person will probably get the ax. They do have defined sets of rules but due to the reasons listed above its hard to enforce. I personally know people that have played in the US Open and cashed, and gambled with pros even and won and played league for years. All subjective and case by case as I said.
 
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Kevin, you make several good points. The discussion of what an actual " pro " pool player has been going on here and everywhere else for years. Your description is spot on imo, however if you applied that to reality there would be what like 10-20 pros total lol? Then here in the US we have all these " pro " tourneys ( a lot are called opens ) where no one needs to qualify - just plop down your entry and get to it ( which btw I don't really have a problem with ) but that ultimately blurs the lines even more as to what is a pro. While probably not the best system in the world, what I do personally and a lot of other folks determine who is a " pro " by what speed they are. Once again not perfect because can be very subjective but we are usually pretty spot on as far as the assessment goes. You could liken it to the old Supreme Court ruling in regards to pornography. Where the justice says basically I can't define it but I know it when I see it ". Lol, but that's what I'm basically trying to say.

Now as to the leagues - you are quite right again my friend. I think most of what you speak of is caused by a handful of cry babies that are scared. They just don't play good enough. They may or may not be the big dick in their local little bar, then when's someone comes along that they know they have no prayer of beating and know their nuts are gonna get chopped off they make a stink for a couple of reasons. One their ego is gonna get hurt, and two it might effect the $300 they get at end of session were they to win everything ( and now scared they won't because of the new guy lol ) The standards that the leagues use are all over the place too. Such as " earned money in a pro event " , well that brings us back to the earlier question of what's a pro event ? ??? I guess Ifor they were gonna be technical about it they would say " any money earned in any tourney that was not league based " but then that would disqualify so many league players they won't ever do that because they want their weekly dues lol. I would guess at this point any type of compensated sponsorship would do it but they are pretty few and far between. From my experience it is totally on a case by case scenario and even differs from league to league. If enough people cry then that person will probably get the ax. They do have defined sets of rules but due to the reasons listed above its hard to enforce. I personally know people that have played in the US Open and cashed, and gambled with pros even and won and played league for years. All subjective and case by case as I said.

If I was going to join a league, I'd rather go in rated the highest rating and work my way down. I play a hell of a lot better if my opponent can play. I lose interest playing people who think thousand dollar cues and marking the pocket with a little teddy bear makes a pool player.
 
If I was going to join a league, I'd rather go in rated the highest rating and work my way down. I play a hell of a lot better if my opponent can play. I lose interest playing people who think thousand dollar cues and marking the pocket with a little teddy bear makes a pool player.

Lol, I with ya! I think it's pretty clear though that most leaguers have a different mindset than most of us here.
 
I guess I just don't see these many of these problems in my area. I have played APA in the DMV area and we have plenty of strong players.

Many compete in the action pool tour which often gets several professional in the field. Some times they win some times they don't but as along as they have a full time job they are allowed their amateur status with the APA. The strongest is probably Brett Stottlemyer with a fargo rating of 727 which puts him ahead of many known pro's.

You can also look at the field at the APA's US AM and many of these players often go deep or win against pros in regional events.
 
What is a professional? ... .

Kevin, you made a lot of good sub-points, but I will only address your (main)
OP question:

IMO, a professional is one who attains knowledge through practice, experience,
and/or study in any particular endeavor.

A professional need not earn money as a direct result from this knowledge.
It is enough to have the knowledge itself.

Now, the level of knowledge that makes one a pro is relative and fluid--
it depends on the industry: law, medical, and yes, pool.
No doubt, the relevant industry will dictate the professional level of the day.

I will say this however: the level of play that is required to be a professional
pool player is higher today that is was as in say, the 70s and 80s. :thumbup:
 
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You are forgetting the bazarro pool world

Pro's can't gamble.
On anything.
If they do they get banned by a governing body.
And there's that.
In bazarro pool world pros gamble. Starve weekly.
Never owned a car?
All heart though.
After all they are pro players?
Never changes.
Nick :)
 
I once heard someone answer the question with:
When the stakes are raised, the amateur plays worse, while the professional plays better.....
 
I guess I just don't see these many of these problems in my area. I have played APA in the DMV area and we have plenty of strong players.

Many compete in the action pool tour which often gets several professional in the field. Some times they win some times they don't but as along as they have a full time job they are allowed their amateur status with the APA. The strongest is probably Brett Stottlemyer with a fargo rating of 727 which puts him ahead of many known pro's.

You can also look at the field at the APA's US AM and many of these players often go deep or win against pros in regional events.

I am very glad to read this reply. It seems to me this could be used as a strong argument to anyone being kicked out of a local bar league for simply having a higher level skill set then average league player. The only flaw with the argument i can even see is the fact that only certain tournaments recognize the Fargo Rating. While it is widely accepted among the actual professionals the amateur leagues typically use their own rating systems that may or may not be as accurate.

In my particular case I am not even close to having professional level skillset at this point. I was only asking out of fear that if I devoted the time and effort needed to be that good I might not be able to play in local leagues. I have never really wanted to compete in this sport as a team or handicapped player. Fargo Rating seems more like a skill rating.
 
A professional pool player gives up a career in any other field in order to starve, scrape together entry fees, and beg for sponsorships. He lives in the cheapest house in the cheapest area in which somebody with piss poor credit can secure a loan and put in a pool table in his spare room. Or he is a has-been who gives lessons to hacks and serves as a house pro to get free table time.

An ace has a career, a social life, and maybe even a stable family, but practices only a few hours a week. He doesn't make the finals of the handful of tournaments he enters and rarely travels more than 5 hours to those, but he enjoys himself. If he's smart and driven, he's got a career where his entry fees are really chump change and his run through the opening rounds of a tournament are just a passing entertainment. Sure he stands a chance but making the finals is actually money out of his pocket, not a bonus, because those are just personal days he has to take off from a real job.

A pool god is not a pool player. He's a snooker player who plays pool only in China twice a year. He doesn't even like pool. Or he's Gareth Potts. Whatever.

The point is, only a handful of people will ever make a decent living playing pool, none of them in the US. Only if your government subsidizes you, like Niels Feijen, or you make most of your money being a snooker professional, like Neil Robertson and Judd Trump, can you really afford to **** around with professional pool and actually live a comfortable lifestyle.

But as may of us know, we'd rather barely get by and die broke in order to play the game we love. It's not dignified to anybody who isn't as desperate to play pool as we are, but we wouldn't have it any other way.
 
I just found an official point of view of the apa on what they think qualifies as a professional.

"Locally, the League Operator and/or the Board of Governors has the option of
disallowing participation by an individual who has consistently demonstrated
professional characteristics. An individual who is a known money player and is
perceived by the League Operator/Board of Governors to make a substantial
portion of his living playing pool, rather than having other employment, could
fall into this category. An individual who gives exhibitions or lessons for money
may fall into this category. A highly skilled individual who is employed as a
manager/assistant manager of a billiard room may be categorized as a house pro
and could be ineligible for amateur play. The APA does not wish League
Operators/Boards of Governors to disallow participation based strictly on ability.
There are many skilled amateurs and they are welcome to play in the League."

That was a direct quote from the team manual page 43 section 32.
 
What it is....

I know a lot of players who are great and never do anything with it.

For most - the better you get at pool the more addictive it becomes and the more you play but if you don't have the guts to get out there, do the grind, enter the big tournaments, overcome the humiliation of defeat and continue through all the down-swings...... it's just a hometown dead-end and you wind up sitting at a bar telling boring stories about the good old days.

So - it can be stated that it takes MORE THAN pool-talent. The professional player is the man or woman who also had the guts and determination to get out there and DO IT. This should be honored and rewarded. It should be looked up to. It takes a very special kind of person.
 
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